Hello, I am new at this forum, but since I am looking for a high quality digital piano I have read the posts in this forum quite extensively the last few days. Altough it has been of much help in my search I still have some general questions which I think are worth a new post.
Like so many people here I am looking for a DP which must emulate the feeling and sound of an accoustic piano as much as possible, extra's, as for example other sounds than piano sounds should be limited.
I have read much about stage piano's in this forum, since my budget is around 2500€ (3376 USD) to 3000€ (4051 USD), after reading here and testing in the local music shop, I became interested in the Roland SD700SX/FP7 and the Kawai MP8 stage piano's.

But to make a long story short, since mobility is a non issue in my case, (I don't have to move the piano around) I wonder if these console piano's (like for instance the Yamaha CLP270) might be a better option. So, how does console and stage piano's compare, are stage piano's with a price like 2000/2500€ just as good as console's with price's some higher (considering the cabinet and built in sound systems/speakers make the console more expensive). Or is console always better?

I also am charmed about the looks of the Yamaha CLP265GP, altough it's just above my budget. But ultimately, for one, a real piano sound (the most real), and just a split second after that, the keyboard feeling are the most important issues for me.

Stage pianos generally need additional speakers, while console pianos do not. I got a stage piano because I intend to carry it around, but if mobility were not an issue, I'd have chosen a console piano.

Thanks for the advise, mahlzeit.
Then another question comes to my mind. Are there specific requirements for a sound system/amplifier/speaker for a DP. For instance, if one has a very good hifi installation, with great speakers (not top of the bill still very good), wouldn't that be the best to use (considering the speakers must be placed under or above the digital piano). So one could save money, and maybe even have a better sound?
I would use another set of speakers to play music on my hifi installtion then.

Hello Vinitious

...and welcome to the forum. My opinion is 180° from mahlzeit in this, though we otherwise often agree. In my view there is no console piano that will give you what an RD700 or a CD300 or an MP8 gives you, at ANY cost, let alone at comparable cost, even if you include the price of a pair of studio monitors to the basic price of the stage piano.

The MP8 (I'll talk about this one because it's the one I own) has 256 totally tailorable sounds, 256 memorizeable setups, 4 zones, 192 polyphony, a gorgeous wooden keyboard made of one-piece levers like an acoustic, etc etc. Just read the review about it (you'll find the link on kawaius.com). Connected to a pair of suitable active monitors (worthwile ones such as the Truth B2031As start at $300), the sounds and features and touch and feel are just unbeatable for the price. Kawai's CA91 console will cost more than double and doesn't even remotely measure up.

Plus, if you don't need to often move this rig around, the DP's weight of about 70 pounds ceases to be a handicap.

Just an opinion, of course, but may I urge you to think twice before uselessly burning loads of money on a console just because it's a console... There are people on this forum who have customized the looks of their stage pianos to a point where these put any commercial console to shame. See the thread "bach's MP8 setup" on this forum.

Regards,
Claude

p.s. as far as speakers for amplifying the DP are concerned, take a look at this.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/3241.html

Thanks backmaniac, for your advice. I will certainly think more than twice and added the recommendations to my list.
Besides the DP itself, I read about and heard a lot of demo's based on software sound production, be it sampling or modelling. Hearing the demo's from New GigaStudio 3 on http://www.postpiano.com/tests/Index.htm I was a bit dissapointed.
The samples of music from Eric Satie and Debussy (or Ravel) lack what is essential in that music, namely: fluidity and making the music 'float' in the case of Satie's music. Altough the pianosound on itself is not bad at all, it sounds a bit like honkie tonk music (no sustain where it should be, the dynamic changes in terms of volume are not exactly fluid and the chordal transitions aren't either). Assuming this is not due to a bad pianist I think playing on such an instrument will not teach one to play the piano, it will teach one to adapt and get the best possible uit of a DP at best.
I think I will further explore pianoteq, because I was impressed by Hugh Sung's demo of pianoteq on http://hughsung.com/blog/index.php?catid=88.
I only wonder why he doesn't play more samples of different classical music with various demands.
So, I still wonder if a DP, be it with internal samples, software samples or modelling, can handle music from composers like for instance Debussy.

Re the speakers, you can finesse the limitations of a digital piano's speakers by buying a set of studio-quality headphones, such as Sennheiser's HD 580's or 600's. Good 'phones are also handy for silent practice.

Re third-party samples, the number of "layers" sampled makes a difference in how you'll experience changes in volume. (A layer is a set of samples at a given volume.) In general, eight layers should result in smooth transitions.

Pianoteq's modelled piano is a special case. The behavioral aspects are wonderful. The tone - to my ears - is synthetic, particularly when notes are held. They do have a full-featured demo, which you may want to try.

Re playing digitals at a high level, the only aspect that might be a long-term problem is that digital sustain sounds phony - as always, to my ears.

There's a new sampled piano from proaudiovault which you may want to listen to. It's a company-sanctioned Bluthner The developers claim that they included true sustain samples, not computer generated ones.

If the Bluthner is something that you think you may like, there's a thread here which you may want to look at. There's an exchange between xav93 and one of the developers which includes an addtional demo re "compression." It might be interesting for you because it shows how sampled pianos can be made to take on a somewhat different character. I enjoyed this exchange because the Gospel demo by Norman Durkee near the bottom of the proaudiovault home page sounded unmusical. (Bluthners don't like to be slammed.) But the developers posted in the Northern Sounds thread that they now have a demo of "Skylark" on the site which uses what I suspect is more compression than was used in the Gospel demo. In general there's more richness but less dynamic range. Worth a listen.

I would say its become too easy to dismiss the consoles, sure you can modify your DP setup and create a cabinet etc... but that makes for a lot of effort and quality woodwork skills, then if you decide to upgrade to a different DP, you may find your custom cabinet has become useless without significant modification once again. I have a portable DP and a cabinet DP, as I fancied a reasonably decent one that also looked the part I splashed out on a cabinet version and I am very happy with it. Its the same old story from many threads there are cabinet/console fans and portable DP fans, both have strong and not so strong points about them. So it has to be about whjat works for you.

Some members have a reasonably obvious bias towards certain brands and setup's. Ultimately, only you will know what's best for you, if aesthetics are important you may end up leaning towards a console version that has a touch and sound you like aswell as the added bonus of being visually appealing, otherwise you may find a set of monitors/speakers and amp are the way forward for you. Despite the fact there are many knowledgable people in here, nobody can tell you what you should have, its a purely subjective topic and general guidelines are ok, but you must make the choice a personal one.

The points worth remembering are sound can be replaced via modules or softwre connections for boith kinds of DP, touch feel and looks cant, once you find a model that you are most comfortable with, the rest can be tailored around it, but as you'll be investing a reasoanble amount of money then you have to be able to live with it for a reasonable amount of time.

I really like this idea..my only question is what happens a few years down the road when you want a new DP..will it fit? thats the downside..
check this out..

http://www.duelingpianosupplies.com

FogVilleLad: I like the sound of the sampled piano from proaudiovault, I will keep that in mind.
I think I will stick with a stage piano so I can choose my own set of monitors, standard or cabinet, and whatever attributes one might need. After lots and lots of reading about DP's I think the Kawai MP8 will be my choice, altough I have to find one for actual testing, the local dealer just sold the last one..