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#668639 - 02/12/08 11:58 PM $1100 Digital Piano?
wicious Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Oregon
Hello,
I've visited these forums a number of times in the past weeks, but I just joined this evening. I've gotten a lot out of the forums, and, of course, I have a question \:\)

What are some solid digital pianos in the $900-1100 range?

These are my preferences (although I realize I'll have to compromise, considering my budget):

*US$1100 or less (hopefully that will include the stand)
*Very good action (with 88 weighted keys, of course)
*Integrated or "furniture-style" stand
*Good internal speakers
*Good sound
*Nice Hammond-style organ and Rhodes-style electric piano voices
*Midi
*Song recording

This piano would be for playing at home, in a 12x12' room. I'd really like to avoid black tubular metal and looming speaker structures (for now!).

I went to Guitar Center to try out the Yamaha P140, and I thought it was okay, but there were no other keyboards there in the $1000 range to compare it to. I don't want to spend that much money on something that is "just okay" until I'm sure it's the best thing for me within my budget. I've Googled digital pianos to the point that I think my head is going to explode. I haven't noticed anything similar in quality and style to the P140 in my price range. Have you? I'm willing to drive around, but I want to know what I'm looking for first.

Thank you so much for any help. Hopefully I will be ready to buy by this weekend, and I'm so excited I can hardly handle it!

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#668640 - 02/13/08 10:32 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
dvs cycles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 158
Loc: SoCal
Find another $500 and go for the YDP223. Same keyboard of the P140 with better speakers and amps and 3 built in pedals with nice look for a room.

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#668641 - 02/13/08 10:48 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
I've owned 3 digital pianos since 1989, which
was the early days of home digitals. My
current one is a Korg SP-250 lightweight
console, which I bought new online in 2006
for $900. Previous to that I had a Casio
AP-24 console, that I bought new online in
2005 for $700 (I see it selling now for
$600). I've been satisfied with both and
use them to work on the most difficult
classical repertoire, like concertos and so
forth. You can spend much more than what
these sell for, but it's not necessary in
my opinion, since all weighted-key
digitals are modeled in sound and
action on a top-of-the-line concert grand
piano--so even ones in the $400-$500 range
are pretty good. The top digital consoles
will of course be much smoother and
sophisticated, but they'll also cost you
a lot more, like around $5000.

The AP-24 has everything on your list. This
was actually my favorite of the 3 digitals
I've owned, and I wish I still had it. The
SP-250 is a little more sophisticated in
sound and action, hence the higher price,
but it lacks a recorder, which I don't miss
--a recorder seems like a great learning
tool, but it begins to take up a lot of time
and energy: listening to what you're just
recorded takes the same time as what it
took to play it, which eats into your practice
time; and listening to what you've recorded
seems to take as much energy as it took to
play it, which drains you. Then you start
to get hooked on listening to yourself,
which leaves less and less time for playing.
So I don't really miss a recorder, and it
may in fact be better not to have one on
a piano.

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#668642 - 02/13/08 12:31 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
MarkL Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Chicago Suburban
I have a P140, you can still get it with the Yamaha stand for $1000 online. You don't say if you know how to play or if you're just starting. If I had it to do over I'd buy the cheapest decent keyboard I could find and wait some time until I knew what kind of piano feel I preferred. So I'd suggest buying something inexpensive but adequate like a casio PX310. If you want something nicer looking, Yamaha has two new models: YDP-S30 and P85, both come with a stand, 3 pedals, look pretty decent and are under $1000. Not sure what the feel or sound is like. You might also consider a used digital, if you hunt around you can get them pretty cheap and then sell it for about the same price when you're ready to move up.
_________________________
Yamaha P90

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#668643 - 02/13/08 02:26 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Alden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
The P140 is the national top seller in this price range. Not just for Yamaha, but overall.

Where are you in Oregon?

Cheers,
Alden
_________________________
Alden Skinner
DP Technical Advisor, PianoBuyer Magazine
| VSL Imperial | Pianoteq Pro | Logic Pro |

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#668644 - 02/13/08 06:30 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 362
Loc: Pennsylvania
I've gotta throw in my $.02, since nobody has mentioned the Casio AP-45 for $999 or the PX-800 which fall right into the range he's asking about. I bought an AP-45 for $999 online from Costco (with a bench) and it's a GREAT piano. Great action, great features, three pedals, etc.

Please look into these models before you get sucked into the low-end Yamahas because you are buying the name. Actually, you're buying the whole piano.

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#668645 - 02/13/08 10:47 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
wicious Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Oregon
dvs, unfortunately I can't find another $500. Plus, I'm not totally comfortable spending $1500 on a DP when my goal is to get a $4000-5000 DP in two or three years. But in case I do find $500...The YDP223 doesn't have the dynamic sampling or those fancy key-off and string resonance samples. Is that going to make a big difference?

Gyro, I will definitely reconsider the Casios. This forum and your comments have helped me restrain myself a little, and remember to be patient. I just need to find someplace where I can try a lot of models in one visit! There are a few other things on my list (like simple transposing, metronome, etc.) but I didn't want to overwhelm. Plus it's so hard to keep track of all the features, especially with the different trade names and trademarks. I understand your point with the recording thing. Only problem is that right now I'm already wasting all that time...with CASSETTE TAPES! So I use all that time listening plus I have to rewind and fast-forward \:\) I'm a singer first before piano or guitar, so I want to be able to record within the piano because it seems more convenient than dragging out the 4-track. I can just record a piano track, sing along and record it with a normal lo-fi tape player. (It's janky but it suits me fine!) You are absolutely right about the time-wasting though. On the other hand, it is good for me to hear myself play because I'm so critical that all I hear are mistakes until I listen back. Then I say, "Hey! I sound good!" \:\)

MarkL, I've been playing piano since 1998, off and on. I have played my school's upright Yamaha acoustics and Clavinovas, various electronic keyboards and my aunt's antique upright. Currently I play a wizened Ensoniq digital piano (circa CE 1987). I am just about at my wit's end with the Ensoniq, because almost every key sticks, and some stick so bad that I'll play a note, play someplace else for 30 seconds, and come back and the key will still be stuck down. I can't take it anymore! So I've decided to respect my priorities and spend what I consider a large sum of money on a solid digital. My keyboard is practically useless, and I don't want to get out of the habit of playing, so I feel this huge pressure to buy. Mostly I hate the idea of spending a few hundred dollars and wasting it because I hate the keyboard, or spending more than a grand and having to upgrade again in 6 months anyway. I thought $1000 was a fair compromise, but I'm not sure I have enough cross-piano experience to know well what my preferences are. So I have no idea what I should do. Are you really happy with the P140? Do you have regrets? Do you think you'd have been just as happy with a $500 DP?

Alden, hello, fellow Oregonian! I'm near Portland. The Yamaha seems pretty good to me, but I hate the idea of buying something so expensive and then finding something better the next day, so I'm trying to cast a wider net \:\)

jrcallan, all of the Casios I tried at GC were pretty terrible. They only had Privias, though, that I saw. I tried Williams, Yamaha and Casio, I think--and Williams and Casio stank. \:\) They felt bad, and with the keyboards turned off, the hammers made a huge, thumpy, squeaky racket. So I hope you will excuse me for leaning toward Yamaha! I'll look up local dealers and see if I can't find a console Casio to try out. Why is your Casio better than the Yamaha P140?

Thanks for your time, guys. Even if I don't get any of these particular models, you've reminded me to take it easy and wait. I appreciate it!

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#668646 - 02/14/08 05:37 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 362
Loc: Pennsylvania
I think we are talking apples and oranges. I thought you were looking for a console model with good speakers. That doesn't sound like a P140. Your thread started looking for a $1,100 (or less) piano with integrated or furniture-style stand. There are only a few that are REALLY $1,100 or less - with a good set of features [transposition, temperaments, recording, midi/line-outs, etc.] and they aren't Yamahas.

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#668647 - 02/14/08 09:49 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
wicious Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Oregon
I'll take a console model, but I just want something with a fake-wood stand (i.e. not a black metal x or z) and decent speakers. I can buy the stand separately, but it'd be great if it were included and part of the $1100. I want good speakers if I can get them on top of good keyboard action, but action is more important. I just don't want a stage piano with no internal speakers at all (yet).

Which are the few keyboards that have the good set of features? I think the P140 has everything on my list except that its speakers are fair instead of good, and the sound is only okay. I know I'll have to compromise so I was willing to accept that, unless something better came along. So I'm here to ask if there is anything better.

Gotta go to work!

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#668648 - 02/14/08 12:44 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Alden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Since the P140 misses your specs on the cosmetics and audio side, another option might be the YDP160 just introduced at NAMM last month.

http://music.yamaha.com/products/specifications.html?productId=760512&hierarchy_id=20065_20018_16277

It has the better GHE keyboard mechanism, Dynamic samples, good audio, wood-grain cabinet and bench, MIDI, recording, everything you're looking for. The down side is that its a couple hundred over your budget at $1,300. It also has a new little brother in the YDP140 at $1,000 but you back off to the GHS keyboard and loose audio power.

I'm in the Portland area too. Please PM me if I can help - even if that means sending you somewhere else.

Cheers,
Alden
_________________________
Alden Skinner
DP Technical Advisor, PianoBuyer Magazine
| VSL Imperial | Pianoteq Pro | Logic Pro |

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#668649 - 02/14/08 01:18 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
MarkL Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/07
Posts: 728
Loc: Chicago Suburban
 Quote:
Originally posted by wicious:
MarkL, I've been playing piano since 1998, off and on. Are you really happy with the P140? Do you have regrets? Do you think you'd have been just as happy with a $500 DP?
[/b]
I'm happy with the P140, but I'm happier with the used P90 I bought for $350. However the P90 fails several of your requirements (no speakers, no furniture stand unless you buy it separate). I nearly always have to use headphones to avoid disturbing others, so the fact that the speakers on the P140 are not fantastic is not an issue. I plugged it into my stereo anyway, that really resulted in sound that is fine for me when I want it. It is also very nice looking, something that was a requirement from the control tower.

Since you are experienced on the piano and you find the touch acceptable, I would say you will be happy with a P140. I bought the P90 for work and ended up liking it better. I would imagine in a few years I will either buy a digital grand of some flavor, or in the world where I win the lottery, a Yamaha acoustic grand that has a silencing feature. Only costs about $25K.
_________________________
Yamaha P90

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#668650 - 02/14/08 04:20 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
dvs cycles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 158
Loc: SoCal
 Quote:
Originally posted by torakusu:
Since the P140 misses your specs on the cosmetics and audio side, another option might be the YDP160 just introduced at NAMM last month.

http://music.yamaha.com/products/specifications.html?productId=760512&hierarchy_id=20065_20018_16277

It has the better GHE keyboard mechanism, Dynamic samples, good audio, wood-grain cabinet and bench, MIDI, recording, everything you're looking for. The down side is that its a couple hundred over your budget at $1,300. It also has a new little brother in the YDP140 at $1,000 but you back off to the GHS keyboard and loose audio power.

I'm in the Portland area too. Please PM me if I can help - even if that means sending you somewhere else.

Cheers,
Alden [/b]
The ydp160 according to the specs in the link you posted show a GH not a GHE keyboard. It is basically what is marketed as the YDP323 currently.
As a YDP223 owner I can fell the difference between the GH and GHE when I play them at the music store.

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#668651 - 02/14/08 04:31 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8483
Loc: Ohio, USA
GHE == GH, there's no difference on the action mechanics. you might feel a slight difference from model to model even though they all have GH action labled.

my digital has GH, the same as on my teacher's. i however feel that my teacher's digital action feels a little bit lighter than mine, but when he played on mine for a while one day, he said mine's felt lighter. so, it just gives you an idea of how subjective the same action would feel.

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#668652 - 02/14/08 04:55 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
ckcornflake Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 74
Loc: Albuquerque
Have you ever considered craigslist or buying used from somewhere similar? I got a DP from a family that paid $5200 for it in 2004. They sold it to me in 2006, for $1400. It has more features than I know what to do with. It was made by Technics. I like it so far. My only problem is that the keys aren't weighted very well, but it only takes a few minutes of warmup and adjust to a real grand for me.

Anyways, you can get a lot with $1100. There's a lot of families out there with children who lost interest in what now is just a piece of furniture they need to get rid of.

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#668653 - 02/14/08 08:32 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Alden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
signa speaks the truth - the keyboard type designations can get a little confusing, so when in doubt, I check the service manuals. Same parts? Same keyboard.

Rigidity of the underlying structure (case/cabinet/stand) can influence feel from one model to the other.

The other--and perhaps more important--difference between the YDP323 and the YDP160 is the 160's Dynamic samples vs the 323's Stereo samples.

Cheers,
Alden
_________________________
Alden Skinner
DP Technical Advisor, PianoBuyer Magazine
| VSL Imperial | Pianoteq Pro | Logic Pro |

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#668654 - 02/15/08 10:14 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
dvs cycles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 158
Loc: SoCal
I got my specs confused between the 323 and 213.
Old farts syndrome.
What's the difference between stereo and dynamic sampling?

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#668655 - 02/15/08 12:41 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Alden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
The "Dynamic" sample banks include samples at three dynamic levels: mf, f & ff. Its a more accurate way of reproducing the different timbres produced by an acoustic, where different strike velocities result in different combinations of harmonics/overtones/partials.

The "Stereo" sample banks are recorded at one level - not sure what it is.

Cheers,
Alden
_________________________
Alden Skinner
DP Technical Advisor, PianoBuyer Magazine
| VSL Imperial | Pianoteq Pro | Logic Pro |

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#668656 - 02/15/08 12:57 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
dvs cycles Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 158
Loc: SoCal
Can Yamaha be more confusing to a newb like me?
GH =GHE? Why not be consistant?Call it GH or GHE but not both. GHS vs. GHE = standard vs. effect?
Stereo Sampling and Dynamic Stereo Sampling.
Hard for me to learn when all they do is list something in the specs with seldom an easy to find answer as to what it is.
That's what this forum is for I guess.
Always someone with more experience or smarts than me. ;\)

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#668657 - 02/15/08 01:50 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Alden Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/02/06
Posts: 211
Loc: Portland, Oregon, USA
Yeah, it can get odd. They don't do it on purpose, really, it just evolves over time.

I think its due to different product segments being managed by different divisions (at least in the US), differences between consumer and pro markets, legacy terminology hanging around, different marketing emphasis in different countries...

Now, where did I leave my Yamaha decoder ring?

BR
Alden
_________________________
Alden Skinner
DP Technical Advisor, PianoBuyer Magazine
| VSL Imperial | Pianoteq Pro | Logic Pro |

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#668658 - 02/15/08 04:50 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
wicious Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Oregon
Thanks a bunch guys! I am going to try to find some Casios to try today, and maybe a Kawai, and look at the Yamaha P140 again (also try out the P85...). If I run into a Korg SP250 I'll try 'er out too. I wish I could go to Costco today to look for a Casio AP45, but I don't have my own membership and there's no one here who can get me in. Maybe tomorrow!
I'm so excited. I've been on a playing spree lately and it's been hard to have that interrupted.
Thanks again! I think I have to make another thread though...

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#668659 - 02/15/08 05:50 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
I preferred the Roland FP7 to the P140 when I tried them in store. The tone seems more mellow and versatile to my ears. The FP4 is a slightly cheaper model and both have hard wood stand options.

Enjoy making your purchase. \:\)

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#668660 - 02/15/08 06:03 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 362
Loc: Pennsylvania
I don't know that Costco has the AP-45 in stores. I bought ours on-line and I notice they no longer offer it on-line as of about two weeks ago. It's kind of bizarre that all the internet suppliers ALL charge $999 no matter where you look.

Good luck with your search.

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#668661 - 02/15/08 06:43 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 362
Loc: Pennsylvania
My aoplogies! I just checked the Costco web page and the Casio Ap-45 is there just like always ($999).

Sorry for the confusion.

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#668662 - 02/16/08 10:14 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
wicious Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Oregon
Guys, I have a problem. I think I am going to get the FP7. \:\(
I can get it from a local store for $1650 with the stand. I found a place where I can get it for $1450 on the internet, with stand, shipped (I think), but: I'm not sure they're authorized to sell Roland; I worry that the board will be damaged in shipping; I worry that I will want to return it and not be able to (or have to pay $150 for return shipping); and so on! But the biggest thing is that the guy at the local place was really nice and I'd like to support our local economy more. He said they match prices, but the place that sells the FP7 for $1450 doesn't post their prices. I might ask if they'll throw in a bench since I can get it cheaper somewhere else. We'll see!

So, anyway...

Anything I should know before I cough up the money? (I will have to wait til payday, but I think I can manage it, if I lay off other spending.)

Also I was wondering if anyone with significant RSI or tendonitis or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome had any comments about the FP7, because I've heard it has heavier action than lots of other DPs (and it seemed like it when I played). I tried the FP4 and maybe preferred that action, but I hated the FP4's display. (A lot.) Anyone want to convince me to get the FP4 over the FP7?

jrcallan, thanks--I actually tried out the AP45 at Guitar Center! They'd had it the whole time, but someone was using it the first time I went, so I kind of ignored it. I also tried the px800. They weren't quite what I was looking for (and I hated that the keyboard keys themselves were used to change voices/functions on the Privia), but I'm glad I checked them out. It's funny to see how the quality of my playing changes when I move from piano to piano.

Also if any other DP noobs are reading this, I want to give you a piece of advice:
NEVER BELIEVE WHAT SALESPEOPLE TELL YOU! If you need to know something, look it up on the manufacturer's site or test out the piano yourself. For the past week or two I've spent almost all of my free time looking up digital pianos, so I've picked up a lot, and some of the stuff I heard from salespeople today and yesterday was flat-out WRONG! But I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't put so much work into orienting myself. It probably goes without saying, but I thought I'd mention it.

PS: THANKS SUNDEW!!! \:D

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#668663 - 02/17/08 07:54 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 362
Loc: Pennsylvania
Good luck with the FP7 - there are certainly loads of folks on this forum who swear by them.

Also, I think most people looking for a $1000 piano end up spending about $1,600.

Enjoy.

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#668664 - 02/17/08 10:35 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
wicious Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Oregon
Hahahaha, yeah. I think I started at $500 \:\(
But my money is valuable to me and I only want to buy once, so here I am.

Thanks again!

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#668665 - 02/17/08 11:36 AM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
jrcallan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 362
Loc: Pennsylvania
There's wisdom in that, for sure. You may have learned that you need to skip a few extras in life to exceed your budget a little, but you probably got exactly the kind of piano you really wanted/needed.

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#668666 - 02/17/08 01:01 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1520
Roland FP4 is good at $1015 and the FP7 at $1225
_________________________
1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#668667 - 02/18/08 02:47 PM Re: $1100 Digital Piano?
Alex from Piano Factory Gallery Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 11
Loc: Riverside, CA
Have you ever considered trying the Kawai Digitals? The sound and touch has improved. The model ES-4 is awsome.
_________________________
Piano Factory Gallery
Dealer of Estonia, Kawai, Bluthner, George Steck and many more.

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