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Greetings. I'm going to need to invest in a digital piano for the purpose of night-time practicing and gigs and rehearsals where an acoustic is not available.
My present living arrangement is rather tentative; It's highly likely I'll be moving to another state before September 2004. In any case, I have a hard time playing digital pianos with poor quality samples or awkward feeling keys. So my question is this: What manufacturer makes the HIGHEST QUALITY portable digital stage PIANO?
What's important to me (in no particular order):

1. Must be THE MOST accurate simulation of an acoustic piano possible; includes action, sound quality, the feel of the keys, etc. Built-in speakers ARE NOT important-- if I get a quality instrument I will most certainly invest in a high-quality keyboard amplifier or loudspeaker system.

2. MUST be portable. This means that it should be durable and able to be transported in a solid-build flight case.

3. I'd really like for it to be black. My digital piano will never be an acoustic piano, so I don't desire for it to have fake wood veneers or anything of that nature.

Thanks very much your reccomendations/knowledge/suggestions, etc. Take care.

Here's the first three I'd suggest looking at:
Roland RD-700 (with concert grand expansion board)
Yamaha P250
Kawai MP9500

I'm a big fan of the Roland sound, but don't forget Korg or Kurzweil either.

Zymtil, that's a good list, but I have a P250, and I wouldn't particularly call it portable. It weighs seventy pounds before it goes into a flight case, so unless Mr. Durden is built like an ox, he'll need some roadies.

jkeene, they're all like that, my RD-600 weighs in just under 80 pounds when it's in the case. Any good stage piano is going to weigh alot. I think when digi. manufactures say portable, they mean "if you have a dolly" or "are in weight lifting competions".

The P250 has built-in speakers (correct me if I'm wrong) which do add some weight, but the others are still also quite heavy.

Thanks a lot for all the info!

I spent quite a while this afternoon reading about the Roland, Yamaha, and Kawai, and I must admit I found reasons to be impressed by all of them. I found the following review of the Kawai from Sound On Sound (a trusted source of info) to be particulary intriguing: Sound on Sound Kawai MP9500 Review Now I have to go hear/play them for myself!

One question came to mind though: Does anyone know if the Kawai has a flight case made to fit it? I saw some mention of such a case on a couple of sites, but no picture was available. I'm looking for a hard case with casters along the lines of the SKB 5817W
According to SKB's site, the 5817W fits the Roland RD-700 but not the Kawai. Yamaha apparently manufacturers a flight case for the P250 as well.

Ah, and another concern: 'Gary Madison,' the third reviewer on the Harmony Central MP9500 user review page was pretty adamant about the Kawai having some defect in the "ROM mapping" of the Concert Grand voice... I have no idea what this means, but if anyone could shed some light on this I'd appreciate it very much. Here's the site: Harmony Central Mp9500 User Review Page [read third entry]

One last question:

Any reccomendations on an amplifier that realistically simulates the volume range of an acoustic grand? It may be some time before I can afford a quality amplifier on top of a $2000 piano, but I guess I'll just use headphones in the meantime!

A few random thoughts:

No disrespect to Kawai, but it's not an industry leader in this category.

Contact SKB via email in order to select the right case. I have three SKB cases. They're much lighter than their competition. I've had some breakage, but SKB really stands behind their products!!!

80lbs is not uncommon for an 88-key stage piano. Combine that with the SKB and you've got a beast. DEFINITELY get the one with wheels!!!

I don't know the specific problem with the ROM mapping that you spoke of, but it probably shows up as an inconsistency of sound throughout the keyboard. I've felt similarly about some of Kurzweil's sounds. Gorgeous piano sound, but inconsistent throughout the keyboard.

Um, yes and no; the reviewers at Harmony Central and Sound On Sound would probably contest that-- I'm no expert-- I won't know more until I actually try them out in person but it appears to me that Yamaha and Kawai have an edge in digi piano design because of their experience in manufacturing acoustic pianos. Roland, on the other hand seems to possibly have an edge from a sample-quality perspective. Roland seems to be leading innovation in that area across their whole range of electronic instruments (V-Drums, V-Synth, etc.)

I found the Kawai appealing because of the ubiquitous praise I found from online reviewers with regard to its action and ability to emulate an acoustic grand. IMHO, it also has an edge from an aesthetic perspective.
I definitely am a big fan of SKB as well. However, the "fit list" that they have on their website specifically states that they do not manufacturer a case to fit the MP9000, and presumably the MP9500 as well (they appear to be similarly designed)... So if anybody knows of any other case manufacturers that make a flight case to fit the Kawai I'd be interested to hear about it.
SteveY, Zytmil, jkeene: You're absolutely right! There's NO way I'm going to buy an 80+ lb., $2000 instrument without getting a sturdy flight case with wheels!
Were you able to make anything out of the URL I posted above? The third reviewer on that page seemed to suggest that there was an issue with some sort of inconsistency in the right channel's XLR and .25" output within a certain range of keys above middle C? I don't know enough about digital piano engineering to understand exactly what he was referring to...

Last, I wanted to clarify something; My understanding is that Korg and Kurzweil make exceptional synths and workstations but are inferior to Yamaha/Technics/Roland on the digi piano front (according to acoustic piano circles). Technics doesn't appear to make a high-end portable, so, as Zymtil suggested, that narrows the field to the Yamaha, Kawai, and Roland offerings.

They can say anything they want. Just take a look around at what performers are using. You'll be hard to find a whole lot of Kawai keyboards. I've been a professional keyboard player for almost 20 years. I've never once seen a Kawai digital keyboard in a studio and I've never seen a keyboard player use one live that wasn't an endorsee. I'm not much of a fan of harmony central or sound on sound. I find that most of the contributers tend to be out of touch with the real world. They know technology to some degree, but aren't always working musicians. They often gravitate toward obscure companies that pro's wouldn't use. But hey, that's just my take...


I can see why you might think that, but with no offense intended, I disagree. Creating a great feeling action on a synth has little to do with creating the same on an acoustic. Don't you think companies like Roland have access to great piano techs as well? Kurzweil is now owned by Young Chang. Wouldn't that give them an edge as well? Personally I have a hard time separating sound quality with action. To me the "feel" of the keyboard is married to the "tone". If one is off, they both feel rotten to me. So for me, the Roland is the most expressive. That's not to say that I wouldn't mind having a Kurzweil or a Yamaha. Right now, my favorite factory preset piano sound is on the new Roland Fantom X8.

Since you're looking at a "stage piano", you're now looking at professional level products that are not sold by piano dealers. Even within companies like Roland or Yamaha, their pro and consumer lines are divided between different dealer networks. In the world of pro keyboards, Technics and Kawai are non-players. Yamaha, Korg, Roland and Kurzweil are going to be your main contenders (although I did enjoy what General Music did with the ProMega 3). The best advice anyone can give is to spend some quality time with each instrument. If you think the Yamaha sounds/feels best -- IT IS THE BEST! Within this short list, reliability is usually not much of an issue (although I have slightly less confidence in Kurzweil -- maybe without reason). I'm not fond of the Yamaha samples. They sound thin and cold to me. Korg samples don't sound very realistic to me. But two of my favorite keyboard players disagree. So in reality, it's fairly subjective once you get past the fringe companies.

One more thing about Technics...
I'd be very hesitant about buying anything Technics unless it's severely discounted. Technics is a sister company of Panasonic. In the past 5 years, Panasonic and their pro audio division, Ramsa, have quit the pro audio business dispite having some pretty amazing (and popular) products. The 3700 DAT recorder is still a staple in recording studios. Their digital mixing console was another highly regarded product (I almost bought one) as were Ramsa speakers.
I guess seeing that Ramsa closed shop, and Panasonic did shortly after, I'd be afraid that Technics is next.

I've found Sound on Sound to be about the best pro music periodical I've ever read... The consensus among my peers in the "biz" is that Tape-Op and Sound On Sound can't be beat, but I don't mean/wish to argue-- I lack the experience to have any sort of allegiance to any particular publication or manufacturer... Are there any magazines/web resources that you would reccomend?
Good point. I guess my bias against Roland and Korg is somewhat unfounded. I just fear that Roland's popularity has led the company to the sort of price premium that Sony demands in the consumer audio department.
Good point. At the same time, among elite professional jazz or classical pianists (endorsees, household names, etc.), I have never seen a performer use anything but an acoustic grand. I don't mean to argue or cause offense, but I'm not particularly interested in what touring rock/pop/r&b performers use; their needs are different than mine. Nonetheless, I have never spent any time in a pro studio recording ... only passing through in a tour group So I absolutely defer to your experience in that respect.

Zytmil, what's your opinion of Korg and Kurzweil? They were conspicuously absent from your list of reccomendations.
I couldn't agree with you more about the subjectivity of these things. I've found plenty of resources on the web that laud and extoll the virtues of the Yamaha and the Roland and the Kurzweil and the Kawai, etc., etc. All the pianos we've mentioned appear to be quality instruments-- it's clear to me now that the only way I will ever decide is by spending some quality time with each of them...

Thank you all for reccomendations/advice. This is an area I don't know a lot about; your knowledge and experience is much appreciated.

One more question: Why on earth are the Kurzweils purple?! Does this actually appeal to anyone? I was pretty much set on black initially, but the attractive appearance of the MP9500 opened me to the possibility of silver. But I'm confident black will best withstand the test of time...

SteveY: Any reccomendations as far as amplification is concerned? Again, I'm looking for something that would realistically simulate the range of an acoustic grand. Thank you much.

Tape Op is probably my fav (I'm a subscriber). But you won't find much keyboard stuff there. I find Keyboard magazine (I don't subscribe) to be hit-and-miss with reviews (kind of like sound on sound). I also subscribe to Electronic Musician, Recording, EQ and Mix, but the last 3 don't have a lot of keyboard info.

Full disclosure: I'm not an employee of Roland, but I've done a fair amount of work for them in the past (including being a clinician at NAMM this past January).

I think your concern is legit. That can happen to any company as they experience success. But I'd be much more concerned about Yamaha -- they're much bigger than Roland.

Good point. You need to find something that meets YOUR needs -- it might even be a Kawai. My comments were not meant to point you to what this or that performer might use, but to the fact that Kawai is not an industry leader. You might find that they make the best stuff for your needs. I can't comment on what stage pianos classical players prefer (if any). But I do know that Chick Corea plays a Yamaha. Lyle Mays (Pat Metheny) plays a Korg. So does Russ Ferrante (Yellowjackets). Ray Charles plays a Roland. LA session player Greg Mathieson plays a Kurzweil. But truthfully, most of these guys have tone modules from various manufacturers, so it still comes down to personal preference.

Here's the rub: Studio monitors to me sound best -- but they're not very portable. Live, I use stereo amps -- both Roland KC300's (the current model is the KC350). I think they sound pretty good for amplifiers. I run them in stereo so I don't have to push them very hard. That helps create a more natural sound. They're also very versatile in terms of input/output, which is something that I need. In the studio, I love the KRK powered monitors. I have a pair of V8's. If you're looking for something that won't leave your house much, I'd go with powered studio monitors. KRK and Tannoy make good upper-mid-level stuff. Genelec and Adam on the high end. M-Audio and Event on the lower-middle-end. Again, go with your ears. As for amps, I love the Roland. I think the 300 series sounds better than the 500 series (although the 500 is louder/bigger). Plus the 300 is cheaper! There's another guy on the board that likes the Barbetta amps. I find them a bit "ballsy" and harsh (which would be great for certain styles). It would help to know your budget as well as the intended use.

I can't believe how much I've posted today!!! You'd think I had nothing to do!!!

I just didn't care much for the ones that I tried, and couldn't think of any outstanding Korg or Kurtzweil models. They just never did really stand out for me (except, when I first started looking, and that was before I had played either). It's been a while since I've been out to just play around on various digitals. Next "outing", I might try a couple again.

What's your opinion of those three? Which is most beginner-friendly? I picked up Tape-Op's free subscription but I find most of it to be WAY over my head!

I'm in no position to contest that point, but I keep reading a great deal of positive discussion about the MP9500/9000 among professional musicians all over the web. Perhaps this is an exception to the rule? I assume a large reason why Kawai is not as succesful as Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Kurzweil has to do with the fact that they don't manufacture synths-- they only make acoustic and digital pianos. It seems to me that synths dominate the professional keyboard market.

Would "upper-mid-level" include the Tannoy Reveal monitors? I've had my eyes on them for some time...
I'm guessing that the "ballsy" Barbettas might be too harsh for classical and jazz piano? They sure look nice! My budget is negotiable. Sadly, I find that due to the enormous expense of manufacturing super high quality audio gear (and the corresponding prohibitively expensive prices), many manufacturers have focussed their efforts on marketing their sub-par "entry-level" budget offerings. In other words, I find that there is almost always a price-point in every major manufacturer's product line below which everything else is crap. So when shopping, I seek to identify which products above that threshold meet my minimum needs at the lowest cost.
As far as my needs go, I'm looking for an amplifier that will accurately simulate an acoustic grand both at home and in small-scale solo gigs without a P.A. I will also likely be using the amp to power my Roland V-Drums. I understand the Barbettas have a good reputation with regard to this particular application. I'm definitely planning to invest in some studio monitors at some point in the near future to use in the DAW setup I am pain-stakingly trying to put togethr with my PC.
I know that feeling all too well!!! Web forums are unbelievably addictive. But it's better than television! But that's still no excuse... I should be practicing!!!!

SteveY, which Korg/Kurzweils would most accurately simulate the action of an acoustic grand? Are there synths/workstations out there with actions that rival the P250 and the RD700? And last question: Are all the Kurzweils really PURPLE? Purple is a beautiful color, but not when you're purchasing a $2000 instrument!

When I was in the market I thought the Roland XV-88 was very nice and if I had been able to afford it I probably would have gone for it over the RD700. Of course, the XV88 is no longer a current model. I think it was replaced with the fantom S88 or X8 or something. For Yamaha, possibly the S90 which is weighted but not progressively, so probably not.

Update: come to think of it, I don't remember if the XV88 was progressively weighted or not.

Thanks for the info, Zytmil.
From what I could gather from Korg's website, it appears that the Triton line is available in a progressively-weighted 88 key form? Any idea about the Kurzweils?
What do you use for amplification?

I don't see any on Kurzweils website. At least if they are they don't say anything about "graded/progressive/whatever you want to call it" weighted keyboards. Thats on all of their models (I hope I'm wrong because that seems a little weird to me).
As for amplification, I have a poor setup. I use a single amplifier. It's a Gibson tube amp, I don't know the model number, from the seventies. It's good enough, for me, for now. Until I can afford a real keyboard amp or something better. For now, I'm just using a fairly nice pair of headphones (Sennheiser HD 570). I've only needed to plug in the amp a few dozen time of times, most of which were from my "pre-owning a pair of headphone" days, and once to play two of my cousins (ages 4 and 7) to sleep (they were staying with us for a couple of nights and the little cried herself to sleep the first night, so the second night I got alot of practicing done)

Electronic Musician is user-friendly and regularly includes articles on keyboards. Recording is also user friendly, but rarely concerns itself with keyboards.

I don't know which professionals you're referring to. I know a couple of guys who have endorsements with Kawai. One triggers Roland patches via MIDI as he's not particularly fond of the Kawai sounds. Other than these two, I don't know any professionals who have actually chosen a Kawai against the competition. That's completely anecdotal, but it seems odd that they don't seem to be visible in my sphere of influence.

It's important to realize that a digital piano IS a synth. There are differences in features and intended use, but the technology is the same -- they're all sample-based technology. And you bring up an important point: Roland, Yamaha, Korg and Kurzweil have extensive experience creating great sounding synths. Each of these companies have sizable R&D departments who are constantly pushing the envelope of music technology. I have know knowledge of this, but I suspect that Kawai subcontracts much if not all of it's digital piano development. While not a bad thing, it's hard to view them as an industry leader in that light.

Yup, that's what I was thinking of. Not sure if my lame "upper-mid" description was helpful or not. But the Reveals are a good value for the money. Personally, I'd consider adding the subwoofer -- they're a little weak on the low end.

I agree completely, but only you can establish where the line is. In other words, it doesn't matter in the end what I think -- it only matters what sounds/plays well to you!


They are for me, but it's completely subjective. I like the Roland KC350. You might like the Barbetta -- especially with your V-drums.

I'm not up to date on the latest Korg/Kurzweil models. Check the web site (and your local store). As for workstations, now you're talking! My favorite piano sound is on the new Roland Fantom X8. It's a workstation. It's newer than the RD700, and currently, the sound is not available on anything other than the new Fantom X line. As for Korg, check out the Triton extreme. The Fantom X8 isn't shipping yet (I'm still waiting for mine!). But as far as I know we'll start seeing them in the next month or two. Not sure about the Korg's availability.

(and yes, the XV88 had the top-of-the-line Roland action)

Thanks for the clarification, I've been racking my brain (and the Roland website) trying to recall. I remember when I was in the buying stage, trying out various models, and thinking the XV88 was my ultimate goal. Unfortunatly, financial matters did not allow me to attain that goal (and until it does, I can still dream).

Oh, and by the way, SteveY, I think your the most insightful person on this forum (and I think I've read every single post in the "digitals" section).