Hi folks,
First post from an (old) newbie. Name is Philip. Found this board a couple of days ago and love it. Great people and great info.

Took up the keyboard in my younger days, but regretably didn't get serious about playing and it faded into the sunset. That was when I was young & stupid. Now that I'm old & stupid, I have lotsa spare time and, here we go again, but with a much more serious effort this time.

Anyways, I went out and bought a Roland FP-4. I wanted something I could keep in the basement (my favorite play pen) and would not be the center of attention, like the beautiful home models are. I also wanted a model of quality and one that wouldn't give me upgraditis in 6 months.

Because I am not a good player, I wanted built-in speakers for my many hours of upcoming practice, and decent output connectors to attach to my home stereo system which is also in the basement.

The FP-4 seemed to fill the bill on all counts. I got the impression that it is a fairly unassuming, semi-stage model with decent speakers and nice big quarter-inch audio output jacks. I tried it out (among others) at the guitar store and was quite satisfied with the feel, sound, & speakers.

Ok, finally here are my concerns:
1. I brought it home and plugged it in and noticed a constant low level hiss coming from the built in speakers. It's barely noticable, but being a bit of a hi-fi stereo nut, I am very sensitive to distortion and I find it quite irritating. I guess I didn't notice it at the store due to the usual background noise of a busy store, as compared to my quiet basement. The hiss reminds me of an (cheap) amplifer with a high noise floor, because it is not present with headphones.

Question: Is this low level hiss normal for the FP-4, or is it a difficiency reqiring warranty service? FP-4 owners, your opinion please.

2. I connected the audio output to my stereo system using good quality cable and found I needed to increase the stereo amp volume approx. 30 db more than any other input to achieve a decent sound level. This is with the FP-4 volume at maximum. I am not comfortable with this very high volume setting as my amplifier and speakers are not cheap, and I fear disaster may strike if something was to go wrong.

I assume the low output from the FP-4 is normal, probably to match the input of stage amplifiers, as opposed to home sound systems. Ok, fine.

Question: Do I need some sort of pre-amp to bring the FP-4 output up to the level needed by a home stereo system, to approximate the output of my other components (cd player, dvd player, tape machine, etc.)so that I don't need the amp volume setting abnormally high? If yes, what are others using?

TIA and Have a Good Day
Philip

I have a new FP-4 and have noticed the same hiss problem from the speakers. It does seem confined to the built-in speakers. Can't hear any noise in the headphones either.

Of note the hiss does not get any louder with maximum volume (no notes being played). This suggests it is caused by the speaker amp only and not the sound board. I presume it could be minimized by setting a high cut filter (but with risk of altering the sound of the instruments at the same time). Alternatively I guess one could modify the speaker amplifier to put in a high cut filter - which would not affect the line out.

Output is adjustable - see p85 of the manual on Adjusting the Volume (Master Gain).

Question: Is this low level hiss normal for the FP-4, or is it a difficiency reqiring warranty service? FP-4 owners, your opinion please. My FP-4 has the same hiss.
It is barely noticeable, but annoying as you say.
Perhaps if enough of as complain to Roland they might find a fix and do a recall???

Andy

Thanx for the replies, folks.
Hmmmmm. I guess the amp modules were on sale, when they decided to build the fp-4. I'm quite disappointed in this hiss, after all I know the fp-4 is not a hi-end unit, but it's certainly not a cheapie either. For the $ I paid, I expected better.

Good idea, Andy. I will e-mail Roland first thing Monday a.m. Hopefully others will join me.

Yes Blue80, I did increase the master volume to maximum. This still leaves me requiring a 15db volume increase over other inputs on my stereo. Doesn't seem too bad on the surface, but if someone(probably me) was to push the "tuner" button on the amp remote, by mistake, I would fear the world is coming to an end as my piano stool is very close to the speakers. LOL. Of course this also increased the volume on the built in speakers too.

Someday I will probably experiment to see if I can install some sort of pre-amp between the fp-4 and my stereo amp. I really don't need this connection for some time as my playing, right now is terrible (according to the wife).

Live Long & Prosper,
Philip

I don't find it to be a problem. Many amps I have owned have a low level hiss, keyboard amps are not high end audiophile equipment. I have to put my ear near to the speaker in a totally quiet room to even notice it. There is nothing you can do about it. It reminds me of the princess and the pea story.

Actually, if some audiophile here would get a freqency counter and identify the frequency of the hiss, a simple electronic filter could probably be made from $10 in radio shack parts that would greatly reduce it. That, or an equalizer could take some of the edge off of it.

Thanx for your input rintincop and OnThe Web,

You are correct rintincop. It is a princess and pea story. I just wish I could get rid of the pea so I could sleep (concentrate) better. I hear it quite clearly, especially when I lean to either side from my normal seating position. Ha! now I always listen for it, as an indication it is working. LOL.

OnTheWeb here are my findings using a Behringer 8000 microphone, a M-Audio pre usb soundcard and True RTA (real time audio analizer):

The hiss extends from 1kHz to 20kHz but most is at a low enough level to be inaudible. There are 2 major peaks - 1.5 kHz and 7.3 kHz. I believe these peaks are what I am hearing. There is also another one at 20kHz but I doubt my hearing extends that far.

I don't have an anaechoic room but I did the test in my home theater, which is pretty quiet as it is acoustically treated. I also did it on the left speaker only, assuming the same results for both.

I dunno, maybe I'm being too picky as I haven't had a keyboard in many a year, so I am really unable to compare. It must be at least 15 years, but I don't remember the same noise floor back then.

Cheers,
Philip

Try notching either peak in software.

If the sound disappears, then all you'll need is a little notch filter or two at those frequencies.
Also - any chance this could have something to do with your ground? An isolation transformer would rule that one out.

Maybe you can try to solve the problem at the source by getting a better amp and speakers.

Serge

Have you noticed any mechanical clacking noises when you play the black keys?

Could it be coming from the switching power supply? (I found a ham radio site talking about a similar problem.

If that is the case, changing to an old fashioned transformer power supply would fix it. Anyone got an old fashioned transformer to test it on?

Hi again folks,

Thanx for all your replies and suggestions. Actually this is not what I would consider a major problem. It's just a bit of an irritant, in fact, the more I use the keyboard, the more accustomed I become to the hiss and don't notice it as much. I guess it's like people who live close to railway tracks - after a while they no longer hear the trains going by.

My keyboard is facing the wall, about 9 inches from it, so maybe the reflection can be reduced. As a first step, I think I will get a couple of pieces of thick fabric and tape them to the wall in front of the speakers. Hopefully, this will acoustically absorb just enough to bring the noise to below detectable level at my seating position. We'll see what happens and I will let you know.

Thanx Again.
Philip

The problem to me is that there is some baseline, unamplified hiss, that is not worse when the volume is turned up and not heard through headphones. As others have suggested, changing the output of the speakers (either electronically or acoustically) will alter the sound of the piano too.

I presume that Roland by design put the speakers on the back knowing that in the situation the piano would be used facing a wall. Reflected sound would be heard by the player to be coming from a larger sound source and be less directional than speakers on top of the piano.

With luck, Roland will one day fix the problem at source..... perhaps more likely if they get feedback.

(I'm still waiting for a reply from them.)

Hi Blue80,

Tried some eighth inch thick felt, doubled and about 1 foot square, on the wall. As I expected, it did deaden the noise somewhat. Of course, I expect it will deaden the high notes somewhat too.

You are correct. The hiss is due to either a high noise-floor amp, or very efficient speakers. In either case, the result is a high s/n (signal to noise) ratio.

Unfortunately, I think we are stuck with it. The more I research this, the more I realise that hissing amps/speakers seem to be the acceptable norm for stage equipment, considering they are far enough from the audience for the noise to be inaudible.

On the Roland website, the fp-4 has a nice home stand available. Because of this, I wouldn't expect the "stage noise" to be evident. Other than that, I like the fp-4 very much.

Oh yes, forgot about that - My e-mail to Roland Canada of 5 days ago remains unanswered.

Rintincop I haven't noticed any clacking.....yet.

Wishing All a Good Weekend
Philip

The signal to noise ratio is not that high for a digital piano with built in speakers. My Yamaha P120 and Kawai ES4 were the same. The internal speakers are not full range, they are low-fi. Why don't you use some high quality studio monitors so you can turn the internals fairly low? That's what I do, I use a little pair of Yamaha MSP5 monitors with my FP4.

The only solution I have found is to use softsynths/sample libraries which have pristine sound that is noise-free. I use my digital pianos for stage/practice and as controllers in the studio for my VST pianos.

BTW, anyone can do audio analysis for free, as long as you have a computer microphone:
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

Download and install Audacity.
Record the sound.
Analyse:Plot spectrum