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I've been thinking a bit about graduating high school. While it is a few years away, I'll still be playing the piano then. However, I'm not sure whether or not actually renting/buying a piano for college is a good idea.

Obviously, it takes up too much space, is inconvenient to move, and (if I actually bought one) I need special movers to disassemble and reassemble it when if I move.

An electric keyboard is a lot more portable, and a lot smaller than a full grand piano. And, of course, whenever I settle down, I'll buy a real piano. But for college, is an electric keyboard the way to go? If so, are there any recommendations?

Thanks!

I'm a professional player and I own (at the moment) three electric pianos. My practice piano is a Yamaha GranTouch (GT1) which uses a real grand piano action. The benefits of an electric piano (with a good action) out number the disadvantages. For one thing, you can play any time of the day or night using headphones and the piano is always in tune.

There are a lot of models from which to chose and I would advise going to a large store and spend an afternoon trying them out. Bring along a set of headphones so you can better compare the various piano samples.

Also consider the option of renting a piano.

hi there,
Just a clarification. are you looking for a synthesizer(digital keyboard) or digital piano?
(they are not called electric pianos though)
If you plan to play piano, you may buy a digital piano. And it is THE way to go for college life. Forget buying or renting acoustic for few years.. you can always play one at your school(most schools have many real pianos). Use digital one for practice as you wish. I may not make decision to choose the one till I know the college setting though. If you can play real acoustic grand at next door student common most of the time, why bother buying one?

As a classical pianist I *have* to practice on a real piano. Digitals respond nothing like pianos and any time I spend "practicing" classical music on digital pianos is time wasted for me. However, for pop, easy listening, and rock styles a digital piano is fine and in fact I use one at home and when I play live. So, I can't really advise you one way or the other. You'll have to make the call based on your own needs.

Ryan

What Ryan said. If you are playing classical, an accoustic piano is the only way to go.

I disagree. There are several models offered by Yamaha that use a 'real' action. I practice on a GranTouch 1 which uses a real grand action (from a six footer I'm told) and it responds exactly as I expect it to.

Here's a link to the GranTouch page at Yamaha's wweb site ... http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/piano/product/europe/gt/gt.html

I traded in my six foot grand years ago and bought this GranTouch because I can now play as hard as I want but the sound is as soft as I wish (I have tinnitus). I can also use headphones ... and the piano is _always_ prefectly in tune.

Yamaha also makes an upright version which also uses a 'real' upright action.

The GranTouch may have the action of an acoustic piano, but the sound engine is still only capable of 128 levels (at best) of dynamics. That's where digital pianos fall short ultimately.

I am very familiar with the GranTouch and it has the same limitiations as all digital pianos. Like Steve said, it is 128 level limited.

Polyphony is always a limitation, and the GranTouch only has 32 note stereo polyphony, which is a serious limitation in any style, not just classical. I found that when I practiced on keyboards with 32 note polyphony my pedal technique went bad because you don't really even need to clean the pedal.

More limitations include the lack of any real range of color. The best have 4 sample layers at most and I have yet to play one where the response of color over a range of dynamic levels was anything like a real piano. The GranTouch probably has 3 layers at the most, given that it only has a 30Meg sample ROM memory. Dynamic range is obviously better than the color range being a lot easier for the manufacturer to implement. However, the dynamic curve is never right on digitals, and part of the reason is the lack of color. On a real piano the choice of dynamic level is often driven by the desired color. On a digital the careful choice of dynamic level is pointless due to the lack of color. The pedals never respond like a real piano, making it impossible to use classical pedalling techniques. Finally, no matter what digital pianos always have that "amplifier/speaker" sound.

Dispite the above limitations, I still use digitals and think they can be very useful tools. But they aren't really anything like the real thing. Actually, I would choose a real piano over a digital anytime a nice one was available, but only if mic'ing, bleed, feedback, and monitoring weren't issues.

Ryan

Steve, believe it or not, 128 levels (at best) are _more than enough_ to recreate the experience of imitating a real piano. Throwing numbers around might sound good in an argument, but as a professional pianist (one who have made a living solely from playing), I can assure you the GranTouch as well as most, if not all digital pianos I have played, are not the source of the limitation - the player is, not the piano.

This to add ... I would be willing to bet a substantial amount of money that if a GranTouch piano were recorded (and ambient room noise were added for 'realism' - pedaling noise, chair squeaking, player moaning, etc.), listeners would be hard pressed to discern whether or not the 'piano' they were listening to were 'real' or not.

I've recorded my GT1 and it sounds like a piano to me.

If your remarks re digital and acoustic are valid, a simple listening test would be the proof, correct?

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I too, make my living solely from music. I think 128 levels is limiting. But perhaps more limiting is the lack of timbral response from digitals as most have only 3 or 4 velocity-switched sample layers. But don't get me wrong -- I'm very much into electronics. I have a lot of synth gear. In fact, right now I'm quite captivated by virtual instruments. But I still think there's no comparison when it comes to digital vs. acoustic (even the GranTouch).

As a student, I think it can make sense to use a digital keyboard (in addition to using a piano found in a practice room on campus). You can find digitals will hold in you, imo, in good shape thru most basic things. A Yamaha P80 or 120 would do nicely. If you're computer savy, however, I would dump that idea and get a good weighted controller and a piano sample library (there are many of them to choose from) for use with Gigastudio.The quality of the sound, imo, is vastly superior to what you'll find on a pre-canned digital and, plus, you can always use tweak it. Just my .02. Good luck.

N.

What does recording the piano have anything to do with it? I thought the original poster was looking for a practice piano to keep in his dorm. In that context I stand by my comments - a digital piano is not a sutable instrument for a serious classical musician, especially if they intend to perform on real pianos.

As for being able to tell whether a recorded piano is real or not, I think it is besides the point. In blind listening tests people who don't know the kind of piano still hear the limitations in the performance. What they do hear is a lack of nuance, detail, color, expression, and depth of tone. Only they tend to blame it on the recording and/or the performer. Also, people can generally hear strangeness in the sound engine if they are at all savy about how real pianos sound. Even little things like the amplitude envelope (which is never right) and the dropout of notes in dense sections due to polyphony limitations can be clearly heard. People tend to describe these as "weird" sounding, even if they don't know what is really going on. CDs of digital pianos don't tend to stay in the changer for very long.

My point was ... several points actually, I feel a GranTouch piano (a piano with a real piano action) would be adequate for a student studying classical piano. If I had to choose between an acoustic upright and a GranTouch (either the upright or grand flavor), I'd choose the GranTouch.

The 'limitation' of 128 velocity levels AFAIC is a non issue. I doubt anyone can play with 128 levels of graduation so that issue is moot. (Try that yourself - play as softly as you can and keep playing louder. How many levels can you play?) My mentioning of a comparison between an acoustic piano and a sampled piano (which has to be listened to with speakers or headphones to keep the playing field, as it were, level) was to make the point that if you can't hear the difference between a recording of an acoustic piano and a sampled piano, perhaps there isn't a difference.

If the student can afford the money and space for a concert grand, go with a concert grand. If money and space are an issue, a sampled piano with a real grand action is a good alternative (plus you can practice at 3AM using headphones and the piano is always perfectly in tune).

I forgot the other bit of digital strangeness that can be heard, and that's the looping of the samples. It really messes up the long decays and sustained notes because the change in color is not captured, not to mention the fact that the same sample is repeated over and over.

I would go with an acoustic vertical over a digital any day. With the acoustic vertical one can still learn all aspects of good technique and tone production on a real piano. Techniques learned when playing a digital, any digital, do not translate to real pianos. I know this from experience.

My GranTouch is six years old or so and I do not hear any looping of the samples - that's pretty old technology by today's standards. I also do not hear looping on my P250.

I will agree to disagree with you regarding your statement - Techniques learned when playing a digital, any digital, do not translate to real pianos. I know this from experience.

I have no problems translating my playing from my GranTouch to a nine foot Steinway. Most of my jobs are on acoustic pianos and I have never felt disadvantaged from having practiced on a sampled piano with a real grand action. Perhaps you're a better player than I.

Ryan, your mention of 'tone production', could you elaborate on that. Apart from pedaling techniques (which are roughly the same on both digital and acoustic pianos), what are you specifically referring to.

The same amount of force (velocity) creates the same exact sound on an acoustic or digital piano - it doesn't matter if 250 grams of force comes from my finger, my cat or my nose.

I don't think a college student could afford a GranTouch; the same amount of money will get a very nice upright. Anyway, if it is just for recreational playing, a decent digital will suffice. Unless he is a piano major, I'm sure there are more pressing things to master at college.

You are wrong. the fact that you can't hear the difference doesn't mean that others can't. I know many people who are not pianists or audio engineers who can clearly hear the difference between a real piano and a digital piano. There is no need for me to explain the differences again.

To be honest, I think your assertion that a digital piano sounds exactly the same as a real piano defies logic, especially in the face of all the real differences I described above. How could they possibly sound the same given all of the differences? Maybe you've fooled yourself out of all objectivity?

Ryan

Ryan,
You wrote: With the acoustic vertical one can still learn all aspects of good technique and tone production on a real piano. [end quote]

Using just _acoustic pianos_ for this discussion, what do you mean by tone production? The only control the player has on an acoustic piano's tone comes down to velocity (and pedal technique). What exactly do you mean 'with the acoustic vertical one can still learn all aspects of good technique and tone production on a real piano.'

Apart from pedaling, tone production is simply a product of velocity - how lightly or heavily one strikes the key.