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#676625 - 12/15/07 05:30 PM Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
tsm181 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Pennsylvania
Hi,
I am new to the forum. I have been playing piano for about 6 months now and really love it. Being a student, I have now found a need to get a good digital stage piano w/ internal speakers that I could fit into my dorm (and one that provides the possibility of bringing it onstage in a band setting at some point.)
I've looked around and after a few trips to guitar center found that I really liked both the FP-4 and the FP7. But I have some questions. My first is about half-damper pedalling. I feel this is important, but I notice that Roland does not ever mention this on their details/specs unlike some Yamaha models. The sales rep at guitar center never seemed know exactly what I was talking about. So really I wanted to know if either models have this capability. My other question is a result of some prior reading on these boards. It seems that some FP owners have a problem with a clicking noise on certain keys which results from a lubrication problem. While I know it can be fixed, I do not want to put this sort of money into something so I can all of a sudden pretend I'm a technician and open up my new piano to douce it with greese. Does anybody know if these owners are a majority or if their problem is just one of a few. I haven't noticed as much said about it regarding the FP7 (which I was leaning towards). Is this less likely to manifest itself if I went with the FP7. Well, thats everything. I'd really appreciate any help. Thanks.
Terence

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#676626 - 12/15/07 05:49 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
Serge88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 775
Loc: Canada
On my old digital the damper pedal was just a switch on or off. On the FP7 it seems there is a transition between on and off, it feel more like an acoustic.

No lube problem on mine.

Serge
_________________________

“Being able to hear recorded music freed up loads of musicians that couldn't necessarily afford to learn to read or write music. With recording, it was emancipation for the people.”
-Keith Richards


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#676627 - 12/15/07 06:51 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
Paddler Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: Lincoln, MA
Page 21 of the FP-7 manual (which you can download from the roland site):

"The pedal included with the FP-7 functions as a half-damper pedal, which allows you to adjust the amount of resonance."

Try downloading the FP-4 manual and take a look.

As far as needing a lube job, I seriously doubt that with all the years and millions of dollars put into designing the keyboard they would produce one that needs lubrication in the near term. If you go on their web site there is a video of their quality control robots pounding on the keyboards millions of times. If there was a flaw in the design it would seem this would bring it out.
_________________________
Paddler
Yamaha UX 1980, Roland FP-7, Yamaha PSR-E403

So much music...so little time.

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#676628 - 12/15/07 07:00 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
PapaBear Ian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Both the FP7 and FP4 have half-damper capability.

As for clicking/clacking keys, I believe for the most part it's not widespread. There are some complaints of possible bad samples but even that doesn't appear to be widespread. I have a problem with my FP4 using Electric Piano tone #2. From G4 to G5 the samples are unacceptable ; way too much clicking/clacking. But other than that, it's a GREAT and very portable digital piano. The main piano tones are superb, in my opinion.

I'm like you (quite a bit older though) in that I'm a beginner ; playing for about 4-5 months now. Just acquired my FP4 in the past 2 weeks. I love it. \:D

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#676629 - 12/16/07 01:15 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
DinoCow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/10/07
Posts: 59
Loc: New York City
The FP7 does have half-damper pedaling.

I have a problem with the middle C key. It makes a weird noise... but it's not noticeable with the headphones on, so it's okay with me.

I love my FP7. I just wish I could play it more often.

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#676630 - 12/16/07 09:28 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
First, this whole "half-pedaling" issue I'm
very skeptical about. I had nine yrs. of
classical lessons as a child on acoustic
pianos only, and I've been playing for more
than 30 yrs. and I never heard the
term "half-pedaling" before I joined
these forums in 2005, and I'm still not
sure what it means.

I've owned 3 digital pianos since 1989. The
first two apparently didn't have "half-pedaling,"
whatever that is, but I never noticed that
they were missing anything in the pedaling
department. My current digital apparently
does have it, but I don't notice it.

This key "clicking," and so forth, seems to
come with the territory on all pianos,
both acoustic and digital. On a piano
you have 88 keys, which are mechanical
levers that you're pressing in rapid
succession tens of thousands of times,
so there is bound to be some wear and
tear on them that will produce little
noises and squeeks, and so forth. This
is not something to be concerned about,
in my view--there are a lot of other
things in piano playing that you're going
to have to deal with that are much more
important, like hitting the right notes
at speed, for example.

On my digital, in the electric piano no. 1
mode, there is a sort of very brief "crackling"
noise on some of the keys some of the
time. It sounds kind of like that the
interference on a PA system or like
a muted duck quacking in the background.
I actually think this is good because
it seems to capture that old electric
piano effect where you have a sort of
imperfect sound through the speakers from
time to time, which is a characteristic
of the old-style electric piano and is
essential in any attempt to reproduce it
on a modern digital piano.

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#676631 - 12/16/07 09:54 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
The Pro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 200
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Judging from the number of people on this forum alone that have posted reports of problems with keys clicking/clacking/"sounding weird" it appears that Roland has a widespread problem on their hands.

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#676632 - 12/17/07 01:02 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
PapaBear Ian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
The clicking and clacking appears not to be a matter of wear and tear on the keys as most of these complaints originate from new keyboards. In my case, I believe the sample is bad. It's also not merely a nuance of that particular sampled instrument tone. It's loud, irritating, noticeable by anyone listening, and definitely a fault. I'm 100% positive Roland would agree. Needless to say, I don't use that tone. I'm thinking of driving in to Mississauga to the Canon, oops, Roland Service Center to get their take on it ; after I talk with a couple experienced Roland salespersons.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very much enamored with my FP4, especially considering I graduated from a Roland E-20 home synth. The feel and action of weighted keys is wonderbar.

Perhaps the firmware update, which I have yet to perform, will lessen or rectify my tone complaint.

Is this a widespread problem ... maybe?

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#676633 - 12/17/07 06:49 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
dannac Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 598
Loc: USA
With the mention of the clicking sound in "Electric Piano", sound #2. I can hear the clicking sound in the audio sample.
Mine starts on mid C.... hard to hear though on my unit.

Overall, very happy with the FP7 sounds, feel, and features.

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#676634 - 12/17/07 10:14 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
Gyro Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 4533
I'm still convinced that this "noise" in
some electric piano modes is an inherent
characteristic of this type of piano. These
electric pianos are pre-digital and
weren't so perfect like modern digital
pianos. Thus, if you want a real reproduction
of this type of instrument, this characteristic
should be left in rather than edited
out by computer. It gives the electric
piano voice that genuine, old-style
acoustic effect, with little "crackles"
here and there. On my Korg I like it,
although I use the default grand piano
voice all the time. Without it the
electric piano would sound too perfect
and modern--cold and computerlike machine
sound. The other electric piano voice
on my digital is perfect, and it sounds
like machine music.

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#676635 - 12/17/07 04:48 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
PapaBear Ian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Ontario, Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gyro:
I'm still convinced that this "noise" in
some electric piano modes is an inherent
characteristic of this type of piano. These
electric pianos are pre-digital and
weren't so perfect like modern digital
pianos. Thus, if you want a real reproduction
of this type of instrument, this characteristic
should be left in rather than edited
out by computer. It gives the electric
piano voice that genuine, old-style
acoustic effect, with little "crackles"
here and there. On my Korg I like it,
although I use the default grand piano
voice all the time. Without it the
electric piano would sound too perfect
and modern--cold and computerlike machine
sound. The other electric piano voice
on my digital is perfect, and it sounds
like machine music. [/b]
I would agree if this offending clicking/clacking weren't so LOUD. I firmly believe it's more than an inherent characteristic. Albeit, maybe it should be there but between the sample and digital piano (in my case an FP4) it's getting amplified too much on certain notes.

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#676636 - 12/17/07 05:53 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
tsm181 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/15/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Pennsylvania
Thankyou to everybody for responding. To be honest, the clacking sound I was referring to was one that is due to a lubrication problem in the hardware. I don't think its that widespread but I do know that I've read about that complaint for both Roland FP4 and the Kawai EP2. Someone's even posted pictures about how to fix it, but it seems to require at least some ability (or maybe confidence) with working internally within your digital piano. I don't know its extent because the one I've tried haven't had it, I just wanted an idea of its likelihood of occurring.
Gyro, half damper I believe is the ability to vary the amount of sustain you use at a time. Although I'm still a novice, I've already seen how this is important in sustaining a couple individual notes like a chromatic lead into a chord change (whatever its called) and on some nicer pianos at my school(which are never available) I've been able to do this. I'm not sure how well its recreated though, but any variation would be better than none.

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#676637 - 12/18/07 02:27 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
RandomThoughts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 106
Loc: Canada
Rintincop has posted pictures on how to fix it along with another digital piano. (Though, it might've been the FP4.)

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#676638 - 12/18/07 02:33 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
RandomThoughts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 106
Loc: Canada
Here's the link:
http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/6/3365.html#000000

It's an FP4 and the Kawai ES something (you'll have to poke around about on his link to find it).

Er, lazy.. direct link: http://picasaweb.google.com/qq33qq33/FP4Lube

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#676639 - 12/20/07 07:32 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
Frankie63 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 1
Hi tsm181,
I'm an FP4 owner and I have the click/clack problem on several black keys. I tried to lube the keys on the last July following the instructions of rintincop (many thanks to him for the great job he has done for us) but the problem has come back after a few months. I think that the problem is a structural one. I mean the way the keys has been conceived. Each black key is empty inside it and it slides on a vertical guide when it is pressed.
The two elements have been made in plastic material. Each vertical guide has been lubed by Roland (with a poor quality lube i have to say) but the lube as long as you play is taken away by the friction between this two elements. So what happens when no more sufficient lube is on the guide ? Whenever you hit the black key just with a little bit laterally action the two elements (the black key and the guide) hit each other producing the click/clack noise. If you play with a perfect vertical action then no noise is produced.
That's the problem. Neverthless I love my FP4 because of the great sound and I love its very easy action. So I put up with this problem. I do not know if other keyboards have the same one but I am convinced that Roland could do a better job to avoid this problem. For example it could be chosen different material (less noisy) for the keys and the guide. Or it could be designed Or it could be conceived another mechanic to avoid this strike between the two parts.

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#676640 - 12/20/07 04:44 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
I was just about to place an order for an FP7, but now I have my doubts. Admittedly Roland supply a 3 year warranty but, if the FP7 should develop such a fault, returning it for repair would be a hassle. My choices really centre around Rolands or Yamahas as they are the only DPs I can try before I buy. Ho hum. Decisions, decisions.

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#676641 - 12/20/07 09:29 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
puff Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 222
Loc: oxford UK
Its only the FP4 that has this problem.The FP7 action is totaly different in feel and design - very sturdy it seems.

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#676642 - 12/20/07 10:41 PM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
rintincop Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1529
Roland Product Support by Phone

If you need operational assistance, you can contact Roland Product Support department by phone Monday through Friday, 7:30am to 6pm, Pacific Standard Time.

Roland Piano Support in L.A. (323) 890-3744

Please note that they're closed for lunch from 1-2pm PST. Monday is generally their busiest day, and 11am to 1pm PST is the busiest time every day of the week.
_________________________
1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#676643 - 12/21/07 06:01 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
Sundew Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 281
Loc: England
 Quote:
Originally posted by puff:
Its only the FP4 that has this problem.The FP7 action is totaly different in feel and design - very sturdy it seems. [/b]
Ta for the info. I assumed they would have similar internal design, even though they feel different. As I really like the FP7 feel and options, I will commit to the order. \:\) I could easily spend another few weeks mulling over choices!

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#676644 - 12/21/07 07:50 AM Re: Question for any Roland FP4/FP7 owners out there
LaValse Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/21/07
Posts: 1224
Loc: Mumbles, Wales
 Quote:
Originally posted by Gyro:
First, this whole "half-pedaling" issue I'm
very skeptical about. I had nine yrs. of
classical lessons as a child on acoustic
pianos only, and I've been playing for more
than 30 yrs. and I never heard the
term "half-pedaling" before I joined
these forums in 2005, and I'm still not
sure what it means.
[/b]
I use it a lot. It's essential in some pieces to control the decay rate - by getting the dampers very cose to a vibrating string you can gradually control it's demise rather than cutting it off dead. It's a clear physical effect - if you had an acoustic piano you could play around with it \:\) You can also do the same over long passages without creating too much mush or just used as a more subtle effect in general... The implementation on digitals is probably just decay rate based on pedal depresssion depth controlled by some non-linear (hopefully) curve...
_________________________
http://uk.youtube.com/user/sailwavedev

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