Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#677487 - 06/11/03 11:46 AM M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
manoktrain Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Daly City, CA
Hello,

I have a very beginner level midi question here. I use Cubase sx to record audio with and sx is also a very capable midi sequencer. The computer I use is also very capable with 120gb hard drive and AMD2200 processor.

my question has to do with midi controllers vs midi keyboards.
I was looking to get something small based on the space that I have such as the m-audio oxygen midi controller. Here is a link to it and another m-audio product called the ozone.

the oxygen.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=...l/base_id/57349

and the ozone
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=.../base_id/101577

I'm wondering, with the oxygen, where do you get the sounds from? would I be spending some more money on more software to get the sounds for the controller?
Is the Ozone something that comes with sound patches in it?

I apologize for my newness to the world of midi controllers. I'm itching to jump in and start trying it out and just want to make sure that the first keyboard I get doesn't have me staring at the walls wondering, Ok now where do I get some sounds?

Thanks so much for the help.

manoktrain

Top
(ads) Sweetwater / Roland
The Right Mic Makes all the Difference. Piano Mics at Sweetwater

Click Here


#677488 - 06/11/03 12:15 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
manoktrain,

Good questions to ask before laying out money. There are a lot of different pieces that have to work together when you are working with MIDI, and it isn't always clear at first which piece does what.

To answer your question, neither controller has a tone generator. Both the Oxygen and Ozone send MIDI instructions to a MIDI module or modules, which will be responsible for generating the sounds. However, the Ozone has an additional audio interface, which means it can send and receive a digital audio signal. You could use this to capture a signal from a microphone or instrument (or any other source) and send it to your computer for later playback, presumably through the Ozone. Also, if your computer has a tone generator, you could play those sounds through the Ozone as well. All you would have to do is connect your amplifier/speaker arrangement to the Ozone audio outputs. This would probably have much better fidelity than using the outputs from your soundcard, depending on what soundcard you have.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask more questions you might have. If you are like me, you will have a bunch!

Ryan

Top
#677489 - 06/11/03 12:25 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
I wanted to add that if you purchase a software package like Cakewalk to record and playback MIDI and/or audio, it should come with basic tone generation software. It probably won't be anything spectacular, but it would get you started.

Another point to think about, just because you record MIDI on your computer doesn't mean that you have to use a software tone generator. You could also attach an external tone generator (synthesizer with or without keyboard) and use it to generate sounds. An advantage of the Ozone is that it adds a MIDI output from your computer so you wouldn't have to purchase a second MIDI interface.

One final observation, Ozone also has a MIDI output connector from itself, which means that you could connect it to any MIDI module and leave the computer out of the loop. That might be handy if you decide to go with a non-computer tone generator and you just want to play without having to have the computer involved.

Let me know if any of that made sense \:\)

Ryan

Top
#677490 - 06/11/03 12:29 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
manoktrain Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Daly City, CA
Hey ryan, thanks for the feedback. So glad I asked before I bought it. Definatley would not have been what I expected.

So the next question I suppose would be what sort of midi modules are out there. since this must be a HUGE area of discussion, if you don't mind, maybe we could start by talking about some of the midi modules that you use in your set up and go from there.

I imagine modules could come in the software form as well as simply being another keyboard?

Thanks again, and anyone else please feel free to jump in with midi module suggestions that would get a beginner started out.

manoktrain

Top
#677491 - 06/11/03 12:35 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
manoktrain Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Daly City, CA
I see, looks like we were replying at the same time there.

So, the Cubase sx should have some tones in it that I could utilize with either the oxygen or the ozone. I'm pretty sure I do remember something like that. Like you said, I'm sure it's nothing too spectacular but it's at least all starting to make some more sense thanks to your replies.

The Ozone seems to have some desirable added specs compared to the oxygen, perhaps the oxygen would be very easily outgrown.

I don't suppose you would know anything about the Novation mm10-x would you? I imagine it's a controller that is a bit older, but it's the right size and I can get a used one for $25 with a midiman midi interface.

not too sure if the midi connection through the sound card (it's a soundblaster platinum with one midi in and out) is desirable to the usb connection of the oxygen and ozone?

Thanks again, this is really really helpful.

manoktrain

Top
#677492 - 06/11/03 01:16 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
To be honest, I haven't settled on a MIDI module yet. Unfortunately I haver expensive tastes \:\) However, I do have experience using MIDI with other people's setups and with keyboards that I have taken home to try out. My current plan is to get a synthesizer with weighted action (I am looking at the Yamaha S90 at the moment), which I will use as both a controller and tone generator. I will connect the MIDI input and output on the synth to the input and output on the computer, which will allow the MIDI instructions to be recorded by the software and routed back to the synthesizer for playback in real time. This would allow for later playback with the same setup. It would also allow me to edit presets in a nice (hopefully) GUI and then dump them back onto the synth through a SYSEX dump.

I don't know what modules to recommend. There are some good ones out there, including some software ones that have gotten good reviews. I have not tried the vast majority of them, though. The ones I have demoed have been the professional synths, which I intend to use for certain performance situations. I would look up reviews, like the Harmony Central review database, and check out product specific forums where you can ask questions and search for reviews.

I don't know anything about the Novation unit. Well, I remember reading about it, but unfortunately I just can't remember what I read \:\) Again, though, you would not need a USB interface for it since your soundcard is MIDI capable. Skip the midiman if you go this route.

Ryan

Top
#677493 - 06/11/03 01:51 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
Manoktrain,
Ryan's done a great job answering your questions. I have nothing to add but a question:
What kinds of sounds are you looking to play? What kind of music do you sequence? record? This will undoubtedly fuel your decision on a module (along with your budget).
_________________________
PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

Top
#677494 - 06/11/03 02:51 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
manoktrain Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Daly City, CA
ryan, thanks so much for your input on the modules. Your replies definatley shed alot of light on this topic that I was in the dark about.

SteveY, to answer your question, I would love to be able to trigger organ sounds such as the old Moog sounds or other older organ sounds like the Hammond stuff.

I'd also love to play around with bass sounds that I could trigger with a midi set up as well as drum sounds.

Mostly the old organ sounds and the bass, since I do use an electric drum kit that has a midi in and out on it. (although I've never used it yet, just record the analog output so far)

So, there ya go, if you have any suggestions on modules for Moogs and Hammonds and bass sounds that would be most appreciated.

Thanks again to you both.

manoktrain

Top
#677495 - 06/11/03 03:02 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
Your welcome. "Shedding light" is such an apt metaphor. I learned this stuff on my own and I sure felt like I was groping in the dark. I still remember the first time I tried to program a Yamaha DX7 back in the mid 80's - I think I was even more in the dark then!

The consensus seems to be that the Waves B4 software has the best Hammond sounds. I have not tried it, but I have used their mastering tools and know that their tools are first rate.

Unfortunately I don't know what to recommend for bass. The best bass sounds I have heard I found in the Yamaha S90/Motif synths. They have a rack mount version for under $1k. However, I wasn't super excited about their built-in organ voices.

There are many cheaper modules out there by a variety of manufacturers, but I have not demoed them.

Well, that just about taps out what I know. Doesn't take long \:\)

Ryan

Top
#677496 - 06/11/03 03:25 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
manoktrain Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 8
Loc: Daly City, CA
cool deal ryan.

I believe that harmonycentral has a sample version of that Waves B4 software along with alot of other good stuff to try out.

here's the waves b4 link though.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/software_synthesizers.html

if you scroll down you see the "b4 demo"
not sure if that is what I think it is, but worth a try. I think it's a sample of the software you mentioned by Waves.

Top
#677497 - 06/11/03 03:36 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
The B4 is great -- I use it all the time. Also check out Trilogy from Spectrasonics for bass sounds.
_________________________
PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

Top
#677498 - 06/11/03 04:07 PM Re: M-audio oxygen usb midi controller beginner question
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
I have heard good things about Trilogy.

I have no exposure to software synths. The stuff I use is geared toward live performance, something that I would not trust my laptop for at all. Someday I hope to give a bunch of these a try when I have some spare time.

Ryan

Top

Moderator:  Piano World 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
The piano made it home in time...
by Rich Galassini
23 minutes 2 seconds ago
Teachers: Do you use John Thomson method books?
by Morodiene
55 minutes 55 seconds ago
Funny but true...
by PhilipInChina
Today at 08:56 PM
Reger's Piano Variations
by argerichfan
Today at 08:36 PM
What is the Typical Piano Consignment Split?
by Paul678
Today at 06:58 PM
Who's Online
114 registered (ajames, alans, aesop, Anne'sson, accordeur, 27 invisible), 1258 Guests and 13 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76201 Members
42 Forums
157521 Topics
2313824 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission