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#680452 - 12/10/05 02:08 PM Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
Hi,

first of all sorry for my bad english. I'm from Germany...)

I went to a music store to buy a digital piano in the lower to middle price range (I had classical training but am not very good and am now mostly playing for fun).

I tested the CLP 115 and the Casio AP 45 there. Somehow there was something in the sound of the CLP that annoyed me but since I liked the Casio sound even less and I really liked the action of the Yamaha I bought it there (the shop is not in my home town and I just went there for a day, so I had to make a decision). I also asked them about the Kawai CN2 and they said I could order it but they didn't have it there in the shop. The salesman told me that he didn't like the action of that piano very much.

Now I have the Yamaha at home and somehow I'm having a hard time with the sound. Don't get me wrong, the overall sound is great, but there's something in the reverb sound that's strange. It's most noticeable in the higher notes (G4 for example). It's as if the overtones are too dominant and sound "synthetically" somehow (like a mere sine waveform).

I could still send it back so I'd like some opinions on the Kawai CN2 because this would be my only other joice now. So this would be much appreciated.

Thanks a lot!

Tobias

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#680453 - 12/11/05 12:21 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
if you're thinking about CLP, then don't get CLP115 which is the lowest end model of the sort and not even being updated to CLP200 series. you'd better off to add a few hundred $$ to get a better CLP model (at least CLP120/130 or even CLP230 and above).

btw, i tested a couple of Kawai models and found the action on those are much lighter than Yamaha's, which i prefer. i don't know this particular model though.

sorry, i didn't know you've already got CLP115 (after re-read your post). i'd send it back and exchange for a CLP120 or above model which has much better sound!

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#680454 - 12/11/05 04:29 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
Hi,

thanks a lot for your reply. I played the CLP 230 and while I liked it a little better I still had the same feeling about the sound I described above. Also, the CLP 230 would cost 500€ more which is more than I can afford at the moment (I'm still a university student).

Tobias

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#680455 - 12/11/05 05:00 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
One more thing: it does sound slightly better when I play with headphones. But still there's this annoying reverb sound. I think it's some kind of digital effect. The reverb effects (hall, stage, etc.) also annoy me but this other sound stays there when I turn them off. It's most evident when I play an accord loudly and hold the pedal. There's the effect described above and in the end there's a sound I'd describe as kind of a hiss...

Tobias

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#680456 - 12/11/05 10:10 PM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
with headphone, you should definitely turn reverb off.

btw, can you exchange it to a CLP120 at least? also, CLP230 is a new model with GH3 keyboard which would cost more for sure.

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#680457 - 12/12/05 03:15 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
Hi,

I don't think, the CLP120 is available anymore. I couldn't find it in any shops and it's not listed on the Yamaha Germany Homepage anymore. But a friend of mine has it (I only learned about this yesterday) and I played it yesterday and don't think that I'm missing anything there. Well, it has better polyphony but that doesn't really bother me. You can also adjust the brilliance of the sound and some other things and it has buttons for the settings instead of key combinations and MAYBE the speakers are a little better (though they are also only 20W). But it didn't sound differently and I'd have the same concerns with it as I have with mine. And I don't think I'd need all the settings it provides.

The only available alternative from Yamaha in my price range would be the CLP 220 but this seems to be exactly like the CLP 115, except for the recording function and the extended polyphony.

So, I think if nobody here can comment on the Kawai CN2 I will try to find a shop where I can test this, then maybe also consider the CLP 230 again even though I don't think I can afford it and otherwise settle for the 115. It's not that bad... I'd just like to know that I could do no better in this price range. \:\)

Thanks again.

Tobias

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#680458 - 12/12/05 06:32 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
gilad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 271
Loc: south africa
i'm not sure about the price off hand, but what about getting a p 250 intead? i'd rather choose a better piano sound over the cabinet.

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#680459 - 12/12/05 07:10 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
The P250 is more than twice the price of the CLP115 from what I can see...

Tobias

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#680460 - 12/12/05 05:33 PM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
gilad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 271
Loc: south africa
woopsy, sorry tobias ;\) . have you tested the higher end yamahas? if you did test them did you hear that annoying sound? just curious.
I'd say you definitely should go find a kawai cn2 to test you might prefer it. i'm not familiar with kawai so i'm sorry i can't give you any informaton on it.

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#680461 - 12/13/05 01:11 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
Yeah, I played on the CLP 230 for a while and while it did sound better I kind of felt the same about the sound.

I will drive to a different town today where I can play the Kawai CN3 which seems to be identical to the CN2 as far as sound and action goes (it just has more buttons, settings and effects). I guess they will also have some higher end Yamahas there. I hope this will help me make up my mind.

But thanks for all your replies. They are still very much appreciated.

Tobias

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#680462 - 12/13/05 12:38 PM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
Now I played the CN3 and I have to say I totally agree with the salesman that sold me the CLP 115. While I slightly preferred the sound of the CN3 over the CLP 115, the action just isn't as good. It feels too soft somehow.

I also played the CLP 230 and the CLP 270 and came to the same conclusions again: I like the action much better than on the CLP 115 and the sample also sounds better. But the "overtones problem" is still there for me.

Finally I played the CA5 by Kawai and this is really a wonderful instrument. I like the sound of it best of all the digital pianos I have played yet. But I just don't have the addtional 1000€ to buy it.

So I guess I will keep the CLP 115 even though I'd prefer the CLP 230 or even the CA5. But already 600€ more for the CLP 230 don't seem to be worth it for me. I guess I will buy another one a couple of years from now when the technology is even further refined and I'm earning my own money. \:\)

Thanks for all your help!

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#680463 - 12/13/05 10:15 PM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
John WI Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/30/05
Posts: 88
Loc: Madison, Wisconsin USA
You might want to check out the Kawai CN4. I recently bought one and like it quite a bit. I think it is between the CN3 and the CA5 in quality and price.
_________________________
John Wisconsin

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#680464 - 12/14/05 03:20 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
Hi,

well, as I didn't like the keyboard of the CN3 compared to the CLP 115 I don't think I will like the CN4 any more because according to one of the Kawai guys it has the same keyboard and action. And since it is more expensive than the CLP-230 I guess I would first consider buying this. But thanks anyway. \:\)

Tobias

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#680465 - 12/14/05 04:30 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Schizo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 26
Loc: Netherlands
Hi Tobias,

Why aren't you going for a Roland digital of the HP series? Even the HP101 (beginners model) I found more attractive than the CLP115. I have also tried the Kawai CN2, but I found the sound very "light", I guess due to the speakers. The CLP115 (in my opinion) is not playing like a real piano. The sound of Roland is more warm and romantic, but it is very subjective.

-Krista

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#680466 - 12/27/05 05:53 PM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
JBS Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/23/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Freiburg, Germany
Hi Tobias,

I found the CLP-115 to be the best compromise for under 900 €. Compared it to Kawai CN-20, Casio PX-110, Yamaha P-60, Suzuki SS-90/SS-100. I have the same "overtone issue", but I can live with it. The Kawai sound on headphones was not tolerable to me, sounded artificial(or let´s say more artificial than Yamaha´s...). So did you keep your CLP-115?

Jochen

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#680467 - 12/27/05 08:23 PM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
i'd rather buy a CLP230 than a CLP115 (the lowest end and sort of outdated model), even though it would mean i'd save money for little longer. it's worthy it to get a CLP230 instead, especially for its GH3 action.

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#680468 - 01/07/06 03:40 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Tobias Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/09/05
Posts: 11
Yeah, I kept the clp 115. I got used to the sound. At the moment I have more of a problem with the action which is quite stiff which is nice in the beginning but bothers me after a while of playing. But I guess I will get used to it. I think it was the right decision. It was not that expensive and I guess I will buy a new and better digital or even a real piano once I'm having an income.

Tobias

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#680469 - 01/07/06 05:05 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
gilad Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/05
Posts: 271
Loc: south africa
good to hear you came right.

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#680470 - 12/29/06 12:10 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
rob1261 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 89
Loc: philadelphia, pa, usa
After a lot of research and shopping for a good entry level Digital Piano that sounded and felt good, I ended up with the Kawai CN2.

The more I play it the more impressed I am with it. It can be bought for about $1000 US.

The salesperson and I both agreed the Grand Piano sound was better on the CN2 then the CN3.

I would recommend the CN2 over the CLP-220 and it is cheaper.

The CLP-230 is a different story but more expensive.

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#680471 - 12/29/06 03:46 AM Re: Yamaha CLP 115 and Kawai CN2 (need advice)
Nin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 55
Loc: Germany
Hallo Tobias:

I am in Germany as well. I am looking for a d-piano but I will definitely buy it in the Internet (prices are sometimes 500 Euros cheaper or more for the "big guys"). Just mail me and I could give you some advices.

First, the Yamaha CLP 115 is an old-model, so I would avoid to get one, and if you buy it, try to get a good deal for it (less than 900 Euros if possible).

On the other hand , personally I would rule out the Casios, and then comparing Kawai (CN2, for about 995 Euros), Yamaha (CLP 220, for about 1075) and Roland (HP-101, for about 999 Euros), I've got the following "subjective" sometimes impressions.

Kawai has better and softer sound, and taste feeling. The polyphony is higher (72-voices) but lower power (2x16 Watts). Yamaha has lower polyphony (64) but better potency (2x20). Roland has the same polyphony and power as Yamaha, but the piano sound is smoother and sweeter (which I personally like).

I personally prefer the Kawais over Roland and Yamaha, but it is only a question of taste. My selection for this range would be Kawai>Roland>Yamaha. But at the end, if you can afford it, I would do an effort to get the CA5 (I found it for approx. 1500 Euros), which is a reasonable option (nice sound and wooden keys) for this money.

At the end is a question of taste, if you like the sound, go for it.

Good luck!

Viele Grüsse!

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