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#680652 - 04/19/06 03:36 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
tenuki Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 669
Loc: Seattle, Wa
I personally don't care to support local dealers for any commodity electronic items. It's a free market, let the market drive it. I include synths, sound modules, etc in that category since every one should/does sound and work exactly the same. A local shop usually adds no value for me so... (I'm an electrical engineer by day so the local support is usually less cluefull than me, and they send it to the factory for warrenty work anyway, I can do that.) your mileage may vary.

However, if I get advice from a local shop and their prices are within 10-15% of the internet I buy there to 'pay' for what I used. But too many local shops are 100% over what you can get from the internet, that is robbery. Funny thing, I just got a wonderful new m-audio firewire 4in/6out box for 180 from an ebay shop, you could buy the same thing off of m-audio's website.. for 350. hahha. let the buyer beware. Am I wrong to have researched on the m-audio website, but not bought there?

However I would never think of buying any kind of acoustic instrument via then internet. ever. Those you gotta play.
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Only the humble improve.

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#680653 - 04/19/06 04:17 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
Paul Y Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: Nashua, NH
tenuki,

I can't agree but that's fine. I question how you would know what a given model sounds like! Perhaps you went to your local shop to hear it, try it out and test the parameters, etc.

That's the unfairness of not buying from your local dealer. How's the local guy to stay in business if all his patrons did that? If everyone did that, he would have to close his doors and you wouldn't have anywhere to go to play it prior to your purchase.

Hey, I look at stuff over the internet as well. Just this week, I "chose" an electric outdoor grill (my complex doesn't allow gas or charcoal grills) on Home Depot's web site and this Saturday, I will go to my local store and purchase it!

Even if there was a difference in price, I still want to feel it, look at the features and make sure it's right for me.

Paul
_________________________
Retired Industry Professional

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#680654 - 04/19/06 04:41 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
pianojazz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 359
Loc: dearborn, mi
I recently purchased a roland 300sx from a local store - new, in the box - paid sales tax and still a lower price than I've seen advertised on any website. All local dealers know what the web-site prices are and they must compete accordingly. I felt better being able to try out various pianos before purchasing one and I now have a place to take it should it need service - but I didn't buy the buyer protection plan with extended waranty - it doesn't seem to make sense: why buy something and bet money its going to break? But it was worth a lot to me to be able to first decide which piano to buy, then negotiate a best price. I think face-to-face is the best way to do business, especially with a major purchase.
_________________________
www.myspace.com/michaelbreenpiano

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#680655 - 04/19/06 04:53 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
tenuki Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 669
Loc: Seattle, Wa
How is the local ox cart dealer going to stay in business if everyone buys cars! What a lame arguement. You may guilt a few people into paying way more, but overall that kind of thinking will put you out of business in this age.

There are plenty of business models that can work in tandem with the internet, those shops will survive. Guilt and FUD only goes so far as a business plan.

I bought my kurzwile pc88 from Guitar Center way back when, cause their prices were competative and I wanted a place to get a return quick if I needed it. I bought my piano recently at a local business cause I would never buy a acoustic instrument over the internet, they were the most helpful in my search and I liked the stability of their dealership - makes warrentee, etc less painful. Any local dealer that can't attract and keep my business on a fair footing deserves to go under IMHO. It is a new world and the local ma and pa shops need to wake up.

The example I gave, the digital i/o 4/6 in/out box, required simple feature shopping and price comparision, it produces no sound. why would I go into a brick and mortar shop to buy that for 2 times the price? No thank you.
_________________________
Only the humble improve.

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#680656 - 04/19/06 05:15 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
Paul Y Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: Nashua, NH
we're not taking ox carts versus cars here. We're talking about the same instrument purchased locally versus over the internet. That's a lame comparison.

I can only hope that someday you have a major problem with a keyboard purchased online and you sent it back and it get's lost, misplaced or it takes 6 months to complete service. If you bought it locally, perhaps having a personal relationship with the "brick & mortar" building would prove a replacement or loaner.

You are very close-minded here and need to see it from other people's perspective. Please don't criticize me for my opinion. It's not very becoming. I am only trying to offer something that might keep local people employed.

Finally, I don't think Guitar Center can be considered a "ma and pa" shop.
_________________________
Retired Industry Professional

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#680657 - 04/19/06 05:22 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
tenuki Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 669
Loc: Seattle, Wa
\:\) thank goodness your mind control powers do not extend to Seattle!
_________________________
Only the humble improve.

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#680658 - 04/19/06 07:04 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
ipgrunt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/06/05
Posts: 419
Loc: Western US
 Quote:
Originally posted by tenuki:
How is the local ox cart dealer going to stay in business if everyone buys cars! What a lame arguement. You may guilt a few people into paying way more, but overall that kind of thinking will put you out of business in this age.

There are plenty of business models that can work in tandem with the internet, those shops will survive. Guilt and FUD only goes so far as a business plan.

I bought my kurzwile pc88 from Guitar Center way back when, cause their prices were competative and I wanted a place to get a return quick if I needed it. I bought my piano recently at a local business cause I would never buy a acoustic instrument over the internet, they were the most helpful in my search and I liked the stability of their dealership - makes warrentee, etc less painful. Any local dealer that can't attract and keep my business on a fair footing deserves to go under IMHO. It is a new world and the local ma and pa shops need to wake up.

The example I gave, the digital i/o 4/6 in/out box, required simple feature shopping and price comparision, it produces no sound. why would I go into a brick and mortar shop to buy that for 2 times the price? No thank you. [/b]
You sound defensive. I think perhaps you get it, but you're not being completely honest with us.

It's not been my experience that local shops charge "twice the price." However, I know little of Seattle other than its awful weather and traffic. Are the "mom and pop's" there really getting rich on their fat profits?

I'm sorry. Let's be serious.

This is not about guilt or mind control, but rather a simple choice in the kind of world in which we choose to live. One wonders how anyone can prefer this global economy in which we now live, but that's another thread...

Know that every action has its effect in our community. Sometimes that "commodity item" is what keeps your neighbor's business afloat. Where will you buy that acoustic piano if you don't support a local music store when you buy the electronic piano that has become over 50% of his business, for instance?

It is true that a fool and his community are soon parted.

Not guilt--just a fact of life in today's economy.

There is really nothing to feel guilty about. You are not a bad person for wanting to save a few bucks.

I do suggest that we all consider our next purchase as to how it effects our town, our area, our country, and the legacy we leave behind for our children and grandchildren.
_________________________
-- ipgrunt
Amateur pianist, Son of a Pro

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#680659 - 04/19/06 07:26 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
tenuki Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 669
Loc: Seattle, Wa
More FUD. I'm not calling anyone a fool or close minded or wishing bad thing to happen to them. It's hilarious to me that people who are making their arguements based on community are doing this to me in my community. hahahah.

A marketplace in america is a free place. Thank goodness. And if you think telling a buyer how to act is going to change things you are in for a suprise.

Oh, and what if my community is the internet... ;\)

My posting on this topic is for one reason only. To represent the view of the typical shopper and to point out we are in a new age, and commodity items are built at the place of cheapest labor and bought over the internet. This is not gonna change. I could care less what people think of me or my buying habits. and guilt is not part of my makeup, never has been. \:D

To refute your only counter argument: I already gave an example of the manufacturer of the product charging almost twice the price _on the internet_ !! I think that is enough data to support my argument???

And yes, Seattle sucks you would hate it here. ;\)
_________________________
Only the humble improve.

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#680660 - 04/19/06 08:45 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
Laurens Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 193
Loc: The Netherland
 Quote:
Originally posted by tenuki:
How is the local ox cart dealer going to stay in business if everyone buys cars! What a lame arguement. You may guilt a few people into paying way more, but overall that kind of thinking will put you out of business in this age.
[/b]
My only worry is that in a couple of years I will not be able to try for myself different digitals in some local shop, because that local shop wont be there anymore. This is fine for a lot of electronical stuff, but not for a (digital) piano where the 'feel' of the keyboard is so important.

It is so very tempting to go to a local shop, decide which digital has the best touch and then buy online.

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#680661 - 04/19/06 08:59 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
tenuki Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/06
Posts: 669
Loc: Seattle, Wa
Do not buy into the FUD.

There are plenty of ways a local business can compete in the modern age, spreading FUD is not one of them.

1) have a competative online store + a brick and mortar
2) compete directly with the internet on big ticket items ( a fact you advertise and guaruntee ) and make your money on add-ons. When you go to a restaurant it is the salad that has the highest profit margin in most likelyhood.
3) Provide great service and support. I favor local gear shops with a competent tech and repair department.
4) Find a niche that can't be served by the internet.

Businesses do not 'deserve' to stay in business.
_________________________
Only the humble improve.

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#680662 - 04/20/06 08:51 AM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
RandomThoughts Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 106
Loc: Canada
My local store experience was bad. I went in and tried the pianos, selected one and asked what could be done pricewise/freebee. (I knew he was overpriced, because I did look up prices on the internet, and even including storefront costs, he was waaay over.)

He said absolutely NOTHING could be done, no discount, nada. He lost the sale, and I made an offer to a retailer in the next town. They took it and gave me a good deal on a stand as well.

But I'm glad I didn't purchase it over the internet because I did have some problems and it was easier to drop it off there and let them deal with shipping it to Yamaha.

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#680663 - 05/13/06 03:12 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 448
Loc: Moscow, ID
Tenuki,

I like your four points on what I would call a complete business model. I think they are very appropriate for things digital and good, sound contemporary thinking for the age of the internet. Acoustic is a different animal because of the variance from instrument to instrument, but digital begs a new model that will serve it best.

It makes me think of the best electronics store in NYC, B&H electronics. They sell mostly pro photo and audio equipment and are unbelievable. Everyone on this forum should visit! Killer storefront with everything new (I mean everything)and also includes used equipment that is traded in and lightly used. The staff know the product cold. Period. Prices are the best. They have both a 300 page catalogue and website that you can order from.

On top of everything else, they are closed on Saturday for religious observations, not sacrificing any important values just to make a buck. This is the hottest business model around for high end technology and a great place to go. They are always swarming with people. I buy from them every time I have the chance.

Unfortunatly no digital instruments, but a killer business model for sure.
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I never had much interest in the piano until I realized that every time I played, a girl would appear on the piano bench to my left and another to my right.” - Duke Ellington


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#680664 - 05/13/06 03:28 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
 Quote:
It makes me think of the best electronics store in NYC, B&H electronics. They sell mostly pro photo and audio equipment and are unbelievable. Everyone on this forum should visit! Killer storefront with everything new (I mean everything)and also includes used equipment that is traded in and lightly used. The staff know the product cold. Period. Prices are the best. They have both a 300 page catalogue and website that you can order from.
You're kidding, right? Definitely NOT the best prices, nor the most knowledgable staff.
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PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

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#680665 - 05/13/06 05:01 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 448
Loc: Moscow, ID
You don't like B&H?

What's the matter with B&H?

Does the secret agent in you know something I don't? \:D

Seriously, I've always liked the place. Where would you go?
_________________________
Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I never had much interest in the piano until I realized that every time I played, a girl would appear on the piano bench to my left and another to my right.” - Duke Ellington


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#680666 - 05/13/06 07:23 PM Re: Have you purchased a piano or Digital via the internet?
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8565
Loc: Georgia, USA
I also have a comment on this topic, based on my personal experience.

First, let me say that Paul Y and ipgrunt have a good point about buying from a local musical instrument dealer. There are advantages to buying local verses buying online.

For example, I purchased a new Yamaha P90 online and thought I got a great price with free shipping; over-all, the experience was good.

Here's the draw back... After I decided I was not particularly pleased with the P90 due to some odd ringing overtones in the upper register notes I decided to send it back to the online store. I then read the fine print regarding the stores return policy. It turned out that I would have to pay a 10% restocking fee and repay the free shipping cost plus pay the cost of shipping it back. That seemed like a losing proposition to me. It turns out that I didn’t get as good of a deal as I originally thought considering I was not a happy customer.

So, if you do buy online, be aware of the risks and hazards involved in buying online. The extra savings may be worth the risks or maybe not.

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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