Hi,

I'm in the process of looking for a digital piano. I have no previous experience with them, apart from a Yamaha (don't know the model, it's a model with no stand, at around 600$) my brother has back home.

Based on what I have read so far, I'm interested in a Yamaha, and I'm considering the CLP-series. I'm thinking of something at about 1500-2000$, but I won't buy something I don't like. In that case, I'd rather wait some more and save for a better one.

As I'm an amateur player, I don't really require the very best. However, I would like a piano that I will be satisfied with for a long time.

The most important thing for me will be the weighting of the keys. I want them to be as realistic as possible, so that it won't be much of a difference of I happen to have the chance to play a real piano in between. So the question would then be if I need GH3, or if a model with just GH is good enough. Or is it perhaps a matter of taste? The Yamaha my brother has is way too light on the keys, so I would guess it has the GHS (or none).

I'm also wondering about things like half pedal and dynamic sampling. Should these things matter, or do you have to be fairly advanced before they make a difference?

I am currently wondering about CLP 230. The reason for choosing a 230 over a 220 is the GH3.

I have not visited a shop yet, so I have yet to try any of them. I suppose I will get an answer about which GH-system suits me when I get to try them out.

As I won't make the purchase for at least two months (need to move), is there any hope of the CLP 200-series to drop a little in price, considering that the new 300-series just cam out? And should I perhaps consider something more expensive, or would perhaps a cheaper model be good enough?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

In that price range, Roland and Kawai are usually thought to have the most realistic key actions. I'd suggest at least playing a Roland HP201/203 before committing to Yamaha.

don't bother with CLP220, which doesn't even have half-pedal capacity. for that price range, if you don't mind the look, you might want to check out stage piano CP300, which has far superior sound and fuctionality (with varies sampling technologies that CLP230 doesn't have). although CP300 has GH action, many people are more than satisfied with it. i would suggest you to try it out at least to see if you like it. the only thing is that it might be a little over your budget.

check this thread for more information on CP300:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/6/2369.html

roland hp-201 its something to forget its keys are almost so light as a kids keyboard and they dont seem to have progressive hammer despite what roland claims... it is really bad...

roland hp 203 its better than hp-201 and even an amateur like me who never learned how to play can tell the difference

the sound of the piano its too bright/metalic on both but the sound of strings violin and the other samples are better than yamaha... (but the piano its better in yamaha)

clp-220 its a bad piano... 330 or 340 sound better...

i liked the touch and feel of clp-280 from yamaha but its too expensive

try the casio ap-500 its a very good piano (its the one im going to buy)

Well, I figured out what keyboard my brother has: a Yamaha DGX-230 (YPG 235). There are two main problems with this keyboard: Firstly, the keys are way too light (but the system seem to be "Graded soft touch", so probably ment to be this way). Second: the sustain is terrible. The sustain don't hold the tones for very long, they fade away much too soon, which makes the sustain on this keyboard a joke. Is this a general rule for most Yamahas, or only certain ones?

I must admit that I have only read up on the Yamahas, so I don't know much about Roland and Casio. So how are the Roland weightening compared to Yamaha? I will try to visit a store either today or tomorrow to get some more personal experience, but I fear the selection in the stores might be slim.

A CLP 280 would be out of the question with my budget, a CLP 330 could perhaps be a possibility if I really liked it, but it would have to be very convincing. Based on the replies I assume that if I were to go with a CLP I would at least need half-pedal and GH3. So how would the 230 do? Obviously not as good as a 330, but the 230 should still be a good piano, shouldn't it? To put it this way: is the 230 a good buy, or would it be stupid not to go the extra length and rather buy a 330?

Also, I would like to add that the important thing for me is the piano-sound. I don't really care about the extra sounds, they are just a "bonus", which won't be used much at all. The extra sounds won't make a difference when it comes to deciding.

Edit: overlooked something that answered my question.

because of CLP300 series coming out, you might be able to get better discount on CLP2**s. so, check out CLP240 to see if you could get a good deal on it which is a step up from CLP230.

In my shopping experience, all the Yamaha DP actions are pretty weak in terms of realism except, presumably, the GT which doesn`t really count as it`s a real grand action.

Check out Kawai or Roland - I tried the Roland action with mock escapement just today. It doesn`t seem to `click` in QUITE the right place (in my opinion - I`ve only played a grand once) but is very nice nonetheless. Kawai is still my winner so far though.

I didn't get the time to visit a store today, so will try to find one tomorrow. Not really sure if there are any dealers here that have a decent selection, but I can always hope. Was hoping to at least get to try a Yamaha, Roland and perhaps a Casio.

Meanwhile, I found a CLP 320 online for about 2200$. So what Im wondering is what the comparable clp 2xx would be? Or is the 320 basically a 220, so that it's not really worth considering?

Thanks for the replies so far.

Edit: The prices on the CP300 seem to be the same as for the CLP 340. Also, when it comes to looks I was imagining something more along the lines of the CLP style, and not stage piano. Although that is of minor importance.

Hi

Having been in a similar situation to you recently. I found the only way you can really make a choice with these things is by trying out your short list and then some.

When I started, the CLP 340 wasn't even on my starting shortlist (which I eventually bought). In the end, it all comes down to personal taste. For example, personally I liked the CLP 220 - It's what got me interested in the whole CLP range - but I know many people don't like it.

My advice: Play as many pianos as you can, see what you like and try to visualise yourself playing it in the future...If you like what you see...GET IT!

Mark

the click you talk is a kind of mecanical noise that plays when you release a key and then it sounds a click as if a smal hammer was released ?

yamaha clp-280 had it and it was specially noticed in harpsichord and strings... it is annoying...

even though i ddint like tha roland i must admit that it doesnt do that annoying sound.

Went by several stores today, and managed to find one with several digital pianos in the end. Unfortunantly, they were about to close, so I didn't get to do much besides look. They did at least have several Yamahas and Roland HP 203, and perhaps they have more Rolands as well. The only thing that makes me wonder about the HP 203 is the price, which is equal to the CLP 340, and a bit above my preferred range. But perhaps a cheaper Roland model would be something to consider. I assume I will get some answers on monday when I can try them out.

As all the pianos are in a big room, there tend to be quite noisy, so do the stores usually have a headset you can use while trying the pianos? Unfortunantly I don't have a headset that I can bring. However, I will need to buy one when I buy a piano, so are there any major points I should be aware of when buying a headset? Or doesn't it really matter that much? I will not spend a great deal on it, as I don't demand top notch.

Eronaile,

Headphones do matter quite a bit, a good set will tend to sound better than the speakers.

You want a set that will be comfortable for you, as you will probably be playing with them on quite a bit.

You probably do not want to be looking for earbud or sport style headphones, as these will not reproduce the bass effectively.

There are open and closed back headphones. Open will let you hear more of what is going on around you (and also let the music you are making be heard). They are usually considered to be more comfortable than closed back.

Closed back completely seal your ears and block outside noise.

Here's a site with some example prices:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/headphone-buyers-guide-271258/

My headphones are the Sennheiser HD555 and are very good and comfortable - an open back pair. If I remember right, they were about $90.

I'm sure others will post more on the acoustic properties of various headphones.

Rich

I have gotten the impression from the forum that many seem to like the Sennheiser headset. I will aks for advice in the store, but I may order some online if they don't really have any recommendations. Ic any case I can always upgrade the headset later if i am unhappy with it.

I have also gained some interest in the Yamaha YDP 160, which in my view seem to be fairly close the CLP 320 (except from polyphony and speakers), in both feel and price. Can anyone confirm this?

If I only get to play one of them, should I expect them to feel and sound the same (through headphones)? I will mostly play using headphones, as I live in an apartement. The YDP 160 seem like a decent alternative for a little less money, so I wonder if it will be sufficient for me. Especially as it has both 3 level dynamic sampling, and half pedal. So is there anything it really misses that it should have?

Also, have anyone any experience with going from a GH - piano to an acoustic piano? Is there a big difference, or can you play the acoustic one with easy? (Does it feel like you are used to with your digital piano). I'm just questioning myself if I really need GH3, or if GH is sufficient. I only worry because my previous experience with going from my brothers Yamaha to a real piano was rather bad. The piano required something totally different than what I was used to.

Sorry for all the questions, especially as I will get some answers when I get to try them. Just trying to cover as much ground as I can

I personally find the transition from my Yamaha with GH action to my teacher`s acoustic very difficult as the Yamaha is so light and her piano so heavy. The digital seems to cover up poor technique so the `real thing` can be intimidating to handle after hours of practising on the DP. Pianissimo is far trickier to achieve for example.

Think very carefully about which action to go for and don`t necessarily get the one you find the easiest or most enjoyable to play at first.

@compositor20

When I played the grand, I noticed that the resistance of the key `lets go` about halfway down and it suddenly bottoms out if you`re not careful. I`ve since learned that this is a flaw in the action of all grands called the `escapement` which is faithfully recreated on the top end Roland digitals. This is the click I`m talking about but it doesn`t actually make any sound.

That's somewhat dissapointing to read, as the most important thing for me would be to have an easy transition. It's one thing to play a digital so that it sounds well, but I would like to have the possibility to play an acoustic piano as well, when I have the oppurtunity.

Are perhaps Rolands better at this point, and are there really much difference between GH and GH3? As I understand it GH action is the middle one, between GHS and GH3?

Eronaile,

IMO the ability to adjust between a digital piano and a grand piano is as much due to the individual as it is to the actions involved. I practice on a Casio PX310 and take lessons on a Seiler grand piano or even the Steinway I play at recitals. I have no problems transitioning between the two based on the action. The position of the music desk and differences in peripheral vision, however, is a concern, and I currently use a composer's music stand to put the sheet music at a similar height on my DP. Casio Privia models (and their console line as well) generally have a heavier action than the Yamahas.

The best advise I can give someone looking for a digital piano is to take your time and play as many of them as you can for as long as you can - even if it is just simple melodies, five finger patters, or scales. It's just like acoustic pianos - there is such a range of touch and sound that you need to find the one that you like the best. You also have the option to change the sound of most digital pianos by running a software piano on a good computer, but you cannot change the touch.

Good luck on your search.

Rich

I will definantly try as many types as possible, however, as the piano will need be more of a furniture the looks will narrow it down. So I'm really looking for a DP with a stand. My only fear is that I won't find something which I am looking for. When I played a real piano after practicing on the Yamaha DGX-230, I had some problems. I am at least hoping to get a DP that will even out some of the difference in the feeling. I will make sure to try as many digital pianos as I can! No matter what I end up with though, I'm sure I will be satfisfied with just being able to practice again!

The sheet music/vision thing probably won't be a problem. I can't read sheet music fast enough by far to play as I read it, so the method I have been using so far is to study the sheets and memorize the playing. It's a slow process, and not ideal, but it works. So far I can play stuff like Moonlight Sonana by Beethoven, and most of Chopin's Raindrop prelude by heart (althought I forget minor parts as I don't have anything to practice on atm). I will of course try to get rid of this bad habit, but that is something I will search for advice for in one of the other subforums.

The Casio PX800 is probably the closest in cabinet design to the Yamaha YDP160 and the Casio AP500 is closest the Yamaha CLP series.

Rich

As DragonPianoPlayer rightly points out, my experience is only my experience - lots of people are quite comfortable practising on digital pianos and even have them side by side with posh grands for night-time practice. Find a shop that sells acoustics as well and compare perhaps.

Ok, so I finally went to the store and played some pianos for a few hours today. (I would like to add that I live in Norway, and the prices here are quite different from what I see posted by american users. So don't compare them to the prices you are used to, but more relative to each other).

I tried a Roland HP203 (they don't have the 201), which was OK. I liked the feeling of the keys and the weighting, but there was a minor problem with the sustain/touch. At certain times it was like a key didn't sustain properly. Note that this was nothing wrong with the piano itself (I think), it was just something that came up because of how I play. So for me, it wasn't "perfect", and the price didn't seem worth it (around 3 200$). Besides from the issue I had with it, it seems like a good piano. And if the price had been lower, I would have spent even more time with it, to get my playing properly and give it a more "fair" judgement.

I then tried some Yamaha CLPs, namely the 320 (2 400$), 330 (2 800$) and 340 (3 200$). One of my biggest fears before trying any pianos were the weighting, but to be completely honest, I found that I was quite happy with the weightning on all of them (I certainly wouldn't like them to be any heavier than the ones with GH3). Also, I don't feel any significan't difference between GH3 and GH, so I can live with any of them. They are both close enough to the real pianos I have played. Now, I don't remember feeling much difference between the different CLPs when playing them. So based on that, I certainly found the CLP 340 a bit too expensive. The 320 was tempting, but the salesman convienced me that if I was going for the 320, I should just make the extra stretch and go for the 330, as it had an extra sampling layer and a few other finesses (Although, it seems that both 320 and 330 have 3 layer sampling, so I guess he made a mistake there. Or I am mixing up what he said, and thinking of the extra one that 340 has). Anyway, I agree with him and will go for the 330 if I choose a CLP.

Lastly, I also tried a Yamaha P140 (2 000$), which I must admit was quite nice. I liked playing it, and the sound was very good (One of the salesmen prefered the P140 sound over the CLP-sound). Both of them agreed that the P140 was almost equal to the 330, and the difference was only minor thing like pedals, and a few settings extra on the CLP330. Anyway, the P140 would be a lot of piano for the money! Even though it only had GH vs the GH3 of the 330, the weight was to my liking.

Of course, like I already mentioned, I was looking for something that would look like a furniture. There is of course another person who has something to say about the looks, as it will be staying in the living room. So we both very much prefer the looks of the 330 to the P140. And the extra price will probably be forgotten in the future (but by following that logic, I would end up with a 380!) So would it be a poor choice to dump the 140 over something like looks, or are there really some specifications that makes CLP 330 a better choice?

are you sure about $2000 for a P140? or are you talking about CP300? P140 should be in $1000-1200 range.

Oh yes, I am very sure. Like I said, you have to keep in mind that prices in Norway are quite different than in USA. "Rich nation" and all that I suppose. Shopping online from America would be a dream if it wasn't for the trade barriers... Perhaps I could get a friend to buy one over seas and sneak it over the border

A brand new CP300 is priced at 4 200$ + here. Although the store I was in had a CP300 for "just" 3 200 $. Not unsure if it was used, or if it was just a good deal. Anyway, I didn't even try it, as I now hade pretty much decided that the most I will spend is 2 800$. But then again, nothing is final until the deal is made. I am terrible at making decitions!

So unless I would be rather stupid for letting something like looks decide, I probably will go for the 330. Given that it satisfy me the next time I try it. Need to spend a few hours just playing it and make sure.

So, I finally made a deal today on a CLP 330. The asking price (by todays exchange rates) was 2450 $, but I was able to negotiace a little. I also wanted to buy a matching chair (330 $) that could be regulated, and a standard headset (100 $). I was suppose to pay 2640$ for the set, and free delivery. However, it turned out that the storage had none of the 330s left, so I was offered the model that was on display, with a total price of 2430 $ (or of course wait until around thursday for a new one. But I have already waited so long!) As the display model looked flawless, and has only been in the store for a few months, I didn't mind much that it was a display model. After all, the store is located somewhat away from the main shopping streets, and they mainly deal more expensive acoustic pianos. So I doubt the piano has been exposed to many people, and the people who have tried it are more likely not children/young people who "stress test" it. And in any case, I have a 2 year warranty

The piano is supposed to arrive in about 1 hour or so, I can hardly wait! Thanks for the input and advice!