Yes, I own an ES4 and like it better than any Yamaha offering. Kawai uses their own propreitary Harmonic Imaging technology to smooth the transition between sample transitions, making them almost undetectable. The ES4 sounds great and it works well as a controller too. The action of the ES4 is the same as the MP-4 (AWA4) and is probably second only to the Kawai CA-X and MP8's wooden key action IMHO, but you save weight with the AWA4 action (both the MP4 and ES4 are in the 45lb. category). For studio I would choose the Kawai MP8 but for stage I bought the ES4.

I have a Yamaha P-140 and transmits the full 0-127 velocity range, I have checked time ago when this issue came out on this forum playing a track on Cubase and verifying the volocity values of each single note.
I also use Ivory a lot but one annoying thing is that I get a low sound no matter how soft I press a key, while this doesn't accour with other soft pianos like the ones that uses the Kompakt and Kontakt engine. I think I have the same problem with Steinberg The Grand 2 and NI Akoustik Piano, I don't use them very much.
But frankly don't know if it's a software issue or have to do with my Yamaha keyboard. Ciao,

Daniele

Someone suggested that an upright digital piano would provide an effective keyboard and midi controller for my purposes. I checked with Yamaha Technical Support regarding my CLP-280 and learned that the 280 measures velocity levels 0-127. Since the keyboard has a nice smooth feel, albeit a little firm for me, it might yet become the controller for my virtual piano, admittedly a rather expensive one.

Being thorough, the Yamaha tech also pointed out that there were no "pitch bend" or "modulation" wheels, so it would not serve as an all-purpose midi-controller as was asked in a parallel posting. If anyone is still out there following this thread, what do the pitch-bend and modulation functions do?

Bob

If you are going to play the piano using external sampler (for example Ivory) you will not need pitch bend and modulation wheel. These are standard MIDI controller function allowing you to alter the pitch up and down with the wheel using your hand (the effect of tremolo/vibrato when playing), and the modulation wheel can serve many purposes as being a knob to control one of the sampler functions (for example, amount of applied reverb). However, in virtual pianos these functions are rarely used, e.g. in Steinberg The Grand 2 they do nothing (I have checked few minutes ago)

I think Mati's on the money. Though I don't have the Ivory piano library, I have quite a few others and the tendency is to use very few if any controllers besides sustain though some 3rd parties are starting to write K2 scripts using them to manipulate things like resonance, stereo width, and soft pedal. I don't think Ivory does, though you might want to check with them.

I have a sense that internal keyboard sounds are more typically geared to louder pop applications while your better piano libraries tend to tilt more towards classical tastes where the focus is on numerous layers of softer nuances.

Only thing I ever used internal keyboard sounds for are occasional practice with headphones. Though for live stage use, I like to patch the audio outputs into a spare mixer channel just in case my laptop dies... it hasn't happened yet but better safe than sorry.

I chose my old Kurzviel PC88 with a roll of pennies... to match the touch weight of my Steinway console. Picked up a Yamaha P90 last year when the Kurzviel gave up the ghost... which is OK and easy to tote but not as nice feeling as the PC88 was. Thinking of looking at a Kawai MP8 or maybe the new CA-X based on reports but I haven't run across either in the flesh yet.

Howard

Thanks to Mati and Howard regarding the information about pitch-bend and modulation. These are features of no interest to me for the foreseeable future, so my CLP-280, if I have to keep it, will apparently serve my purposes.

Howard, you seem to be another professional with a fond memory of Kurzweil keyboards. Why is it that their current products are rarely, if ever, mentioned in this forum?

I know this wasn't intended for me, but I thought I'd weigh in…

FYI -- Synthogy Ivory was developed by a former Kurzweil sound designer.

Kurzweil has had an up-and-down history. It was originally a very high-end company, with it's debut product costing over $12k. When Ray Kurzweil sold the company, it really struggled for an identity. There were some quality control problems as well as some less than stellar products as they repositioned themselves for a more mainstream pricepoint. I really don't mean to bash them at all, as they've created some of the most wonderful piano sounds ever made. I used to own a PC88. Great sounding keyboard for its time, although unlike HV, I wasn't crazy about the action. There are still some very successful players who prefer the Kurzweil brand.

I haven't had the opportunity to try the newer SP88X or the PC1X but I've heard the audio quality is higher while the key weighting is slightly lighter than the PC88. But I hope to try them out along with the Kawais next time I pass by WW&BW one of these days. With my PC88 dead, I'm using an even older Ensoniq KS-32 when I need more controller support.

Howard

SteveY:

Your history of Kurzweil Sound was interesting and clarifies why the Kurzweil products do not get much coverage here. As proof of the small world we live in, many years ago an associate of mine left our speech processing group to join the speech recognition group at Kurzweil Sound in Waltham. Since I lived nearby I visited a few times. They were very excited about the opportunity to work with Kurzweil, who as we all know, was/is a very innovative engineer. As it happens I often walk my dog in the park near the old Kurzweil facility.

Howard:

I have a need for a second digital (stage) piano and have a particular interest in trying the Rolands and Kawais. I can't find an outlet for the Kawai as the "dealer search" gives me no useful information. Roland, Yamaha and Casio are the only ones I can locate. What is the chain of music stores, "WW&BW" you referred to in your previous post in the off chance there is a Boston outlet.

Bob

It's Woodwinds and Brasswinds off of Route 80 in South Bend, IN. Also known as Rock and Rhythm. I think it might be one of the largest music stores in the US. Kind of out of your way, though. You might try giving Caruso in New London, CT a call. I seem to remember seeing Kawai uprights in there a few years back.

Howard

I'm interested to know how you hook up your midi controllers for use with Ivory. Mine only connects via USB and when I've tried my keyboard as a midi controller (for a software synth) on my laptop, I suffered a delay (I understand this may be due to my weak laptop sound card?).

How do you have your's set up? Is USB in general sufficient to drive a software piano such as Ivory (I have a more powerful PC farther away from my keyboard that I haven't tried connecting up as yet)?

Also, has anyone managed to use a midi controller for a software app via ethernet? (e.g., connecting the keyboard to the laptop via usb and laptop to pc via ethernet to drive the software located on the pc? Does this work?)

Thanks.

Hi, I just checked the MIDI velocity response on my Yamaha CP-33 (using the MIDI-OX program).

It certainly seems that the whole range of 0-127 is obtained. I hammered away on the keyboard for a while and saw MIDI velocities as low as 1 and as high as 123, with just about everything in between. A normal fast scale run gave velocities around 60-65 or so, so it seems that the dynamic range of the CP-33 is well centred. This is with the "medium" setting of the touch control.

Jim

I'm thinking about getting Ivory but I'm concerned about lag, can you play this real time? Have you had any problems with lag in live sessions?

BTW, I have a pretty low end yamaha (ypg625) and even it has midi implemented velocity of 0-127 (the info's in the back of the manual)...I'd be surprised if more expensive yamaha keyboards would fail to have this basic feature.

I had to double check the dates here, as some of the posts in this thread seemed to have come from deep in the past.

The contention that Yamaha keyboards in general can't send MIDI using the full velocity range is absurd.

I would imagine that any keyboard built within the last 10 years would have a full MIDI 2.0 implementation.

Please don't be mislead by the misinformation being passed off as fact. It's just not so.