Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards what's the difference between the Yamaha P90 and P120?

I realize the P90 doesn't have speakers, but are there any other significant differenes in the piano sound quality/keyboard touch sensitivity? Does the P90 also allow for half-pedaling? Both seemed to be about the same weighting for the keys, and I think the P90 has an extremely slightly better sound, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something significant. The P90 is also usually how much cheaper than the P120?

Thanks, and if you post an opinion here, please back it up with experiences, information, etc. I appreciate it.

In my opinion, the p90 is not as superb as the p120. Here's why:

*The p120 has String Resonance, somthing the p90 does not have. String resonance is when you hold, lets say, middle C down so slightly you dont hear it, and strike and release the c below it, you will hear middle C vibrate very softly, just like on an acoustic piano.

*The "Key to sound" connection on the p90 is very good, but not as superb as the p120.

*The p90's "Grand Piano 1" is somewhat dull, and lifelesss. Its kind of dead. But you said you preffered the p90, which is fine.

I would say the p120 is extremely better in every way but this is preference. Try them out yourself.

But still, the p90 is a great stage piano.

Regards,
p120dUdE

I tried this "string resonance" out yesterday, and noticed no difference in sound. I played a chord without the pedal, then I played the chord with the pedal down (so according to resonance, the other octaves should sound as well.) Didn't notice any difference, even with good headphones on. The Yamaha website doesn't mention this at all either... if a piano did hae resonance, wouldn't it take up a ton of polyphony (since other registers would have to resonate?)

The store clerk said that the P90 and P120 are exactly the same, except for the speaker part... but I can't believe that's true.

When I check whether a digital piano has string resonance I turn off the reverb and compare one of the highest notes with and without damper pedal. Normally you can already hear resonance without the damper pedal because in an acoustic piano the highest notes don't have any dampers (and that should be simulated as well), with the damper pedal down, you should hear the resonance going deeper.

By the way, according to Yamaha, the P90 does have string resonance :
Yamaha P90

I would have been surprised if it didn't, even my more than ten year old Roland had it...
As far as I can see there's not all that much difference between the P90 and P120, I played on them both though not in the same store so I couldn't compare them directly. I do know that I didn't like the touch of either of them but that their sound was pretty good. Much will depend on the speakers etc. that you use with the P90.
But I would certainly not say that the P120 is extremely better in every way, it just has a nicer package.
If I would have had to choose one of them, I would have chosen the P90, it would have been great with some nice Bowers&Wilkins speakers

BTW, you asked about keyboard and half pedaling.
Both models have exactly the same keyboard, more exactly Yamaha's Graded Hammer Effect keyboard. So I don't expect any difference in response or touch sensitivity (unless there are some electronic differences between the two models that I don't know of, anyway, I didn't notice any difference).
If you scroll all the way down to "Soft Pedaling Capability" on the site I provided in my previous post you'll see that P90 allows half-pedaling.

Hope this helps a bit.

It's not entirely true. The P120 has USB capability. Other than that they are the same keyboard. Sound-wise you are not going to be able to differentiate between them.

So there's no sound/touch difference at all? Hm, that makes my choice a bit easier then.

Thanks for the help.

The P120 DOES NOT have a USB connection, your thinking of the P250. The P120, just like the P90, can be hooked up to a sound module that does have a USB connection.

As far as wether or not you will be able to tell the difference in the samples of the P90 (which has newer samples) vs. the P120 depends on your ears, and how much time you spend with each one.

Neither the P120 nor the P90 have string resonance. The only P series Yamaha with String Resonance is the P250.

OK, now I'm confused

Did you check the site I posted earlier?

Yes, I did. The P120 & the P90 have Soundboard Resonance, which differs from String Resonance Modelling, is relatively new, and is only available in the P250.

Yes, but the p120 has "soundboard Reverb" modeliing, which simulates the resonance of a piano soundboard AND Sympathetic string resonance. I have confirmed this with a Yamaha product developer.

Soundboard Reverb- Simulates the resonance of a piano soundboard and undampered string vibrations. If you hold down C, D, E with your right hand, then strike C, D, E an octave below with your left hand, you will hear the right hand C, D, E resonate.

Key Off- Simulates the damper muting the string after you release the key.

Sustain Sampling- Simulates resonance of all piano strings with the damper pedal down.

This is misinformation, and is being taken from the forum at Harmony Central, in which Mike Martin from Yamaha has just made a definitive statement that the P250 is the ONLY P Series piano with String Resonance. Here is the quote from Mike Martin, a developer at Yamaha:

The P120 and P90 do not have sympathetic resonance. There is only one "P-series" product that has this feature, its the P250. Its two cousins, the PF500 and PF1000 also have this feature as do many of the Clavinova models.

P120Dude, I appreciate your enthusiasm about the product. I suspect you are indeed hearing the soundboard reverb. This soundboard reverb is designed too fool you into thinking you are hearing "Harmonic Resonance". Kurzweil took the same approach in the Piano presets for its stereo piano and optional Piano ROM on the K2600 series. This however does not go to the level of detail that the P250 captures.

Rather than test your theory using similar notes (holding middle C, then playing a low C), hold a chord. Try something like a G Major chord. Hold it until the sound fades out and continue to hold the keys. Then play one of those low notes. The P250 has the intelligence to know which keys "harmonically resonate" with others.

The Yamaha p120 has string resonance, period.

Regards,
p120dUdE

P120,
The Soundboard Reverb....is a reverb. It creates a VERY small ambient "space" much like opening the lid on a grand piano. Because it is a reverb, you are hearing a "trail"....in your particular case you're hearing a "trail" of a note which echoes at a octave of another.

This s NOT sympathetic or harmonic resonance.

I will try get an audio recording of a P250 done today...but I honestly do not know if I will have the time.

My description of the Soundboard Reverb was an attempt to verify with you what you were hearing. It "tricked" you, that is what I was trying to make clear.

A reverb by its nature will "echo" back frequencies. Thats all you were essentially hearing. If you listen carefully you'll realize that you'd hear the same thing even if you weren't holding down any other notes.

I'll try out the P250 to hear the string resonance... but does the piano sound quality increase significantly? The P250 is probably way out of my budget, but I'd feel better if the difference wasn't very large.

Frungy,
I think the difference is very noticable. Spend some time with it yourself. Enjoy.

Welcome Mike.
A question for you if you don't mind:
There's been some talk about "modeling" by some of the guys around here. Is there any acoustic modeling technology used in your keyboards or is it sample-based technology? If so, which keyboards contain this technology, and how is it used?

The sound generation technology in the P-series is sample based.

The ONLY part of this that could be considered "modeled" is the way that the Harmonic Resonance responds in the P250 and PF500. This "response" uses samples to create illusion of real sympathetic vibrations.

This would have nothing to do with any kind of sound generation technology which Yamaha has explored in products like the VL1 and VL70m.

Understand?

Thanks for the quick reply -- I thought this was the case. When I started hearing the word "modeling" thrown around on the board, I was a little suspicious. It seems that nobody has found a way to create an cost-effective modeled piano that sounds great. General Music is the closest I've heard so far, but still not quite viable in my opinion.

BTW -- I was at the original NAMM demo of the VL1 -- it was WAY ahead of it's time!!! I think it was Alan Pasqua that was demoing it -- amazing!

Obviously modeling technology has been quite useful in the guitar world. I'm curious as to when it'll start showing up in the piano world!

PS...do you work with Avery?