Much of this three page thread discussed Suzuki acoustic pianos. These may or may not have any relationship to observations made on digital pianos. Separate factories, etc. Clearly, IronCobra owns an impressive stable of digital products and should be in a position to draw comparisons in touch and tone production. I am glad he has a positive experience.

It would appear that his only experience with Suzuki acoustics has come from brochure information and discussions with Suzuki folks on the phone or on line. There are few if any outlets where one can actually play and asses a Suzuki acoustic without actually ordering one and taking delivery. I would caution anyone drawing parellels between the two product lines.

I personally just went through an extended search for my first digital piano, and while I have never played or even seen a Suzuki piano, and I confirm that from my research that the product is not product directly by Suzuki. Roland, for example doesn't produce their grand piano cabinets, but the majority of their product is made by Roland where the Suzuki product is completely out-sourced, so that is NEVER a good sign for a quality product.

Secondly, most retailers of Suzuki don't have the ability to negotiate, so the price on these units are high when you consider you can actually go to a local dealer and purchase a Kohler for the same price. Why would you then buy a Suzuki from Costco? Kohler KD-150's can be had for 3 grand and less.

But for me this was the biggest issue, why would I buy a Suzuki (no dealer network, no name recognition etc) when good Roland's and Kawai's can be had all over the place in the second hand market as well as in 2008 floor models? Suzuki's are for when the economy is good and the name brands are pulling the margins they target in their marketing meetings during product launch. Recessions are times to buy overstocked named brands..... IMHO.

Suzuki DPs may or may not be good products, but I don't see how that is affected by outsourcing.

Do you own a cell phone? It doesn't matter what brand ... manufacturing is outsourced to companies like Foxconn. Giant, and Flextronics, with major operations in China. Likewise many other consumer electronic products.

Are these poor products?

I won't service Suzuki digitals.

I'll let it go at that.

Ken

I just finishing up servicing a Suzuki digital baby grand and was looking for some information about it. However, it seems I am more knowledgable about the inner workings of a digital piano than any of the posters here, so I will try to offer some unbiased descriptions of the technical aspects of them.
First, the electronics. Didja see the movie,"Armageddon", when Bruce Willis is up at the space station and the crazy Russian cosmonaut is banging on the panel, screaming,"Doesn't matter if its Russian or American, it's still the same cheap Japanese parts!" Well, that,s not exactly true of the space station, but it is true of electric pianos. They are computers. They have different keyboards and a better soundcard, but many similarities otherwise. And just like soundcards, a 24 bit piano will sound better than a 16 bit one. Across the brands, they use the same quality parts as all consumer electronics.
The biggest difference is number of amplifier channels and size and quantity of speakers. Your ears and the specs will tell you about this part. The unseen part is shielding of the electronics. Yamahas are shielded. Most others are not. This is a critical factor if you live on transmitter hill or near a radio station.
Previous posts mentioned ISO 9000 certification. This has become important in the electronics industry to prevent counterfeit parts from being used as they are tracked from factory to wharehouse to end user.
Electronics are easy to judge by ear and give very few problems in the digital section. Power supplies are a different matter. Remote supplies or "wall warts" are usually good for a few years before the cords go bad. In general, power supplies and amplifier channels are an infrequent source of failure. The only speakers I have had to repair had liquid poured in them.
The mechanisms of electric pianos are not as robust as string pianos. They are made of plastic and steel and all brands of electric pianos I work on, Yamaha, Suzuki, Roland and Kawai have had problems with design that have vexed their hardworking designers.
Early Yamaha clavinovas had keys breaking. Rolands had hammers breaking off. Kawai had squeaky keys. Suzuki had stiff hammers. All of them have addressed the problems and fixed their designs to hold together better.
The common issue that I see is a manufacturing process where a piece of metal has plastic cast around it to form the weighted hammer. The diffferential of expansion between the two materials leads to cracking of the plastic. This occurs in the hammer pivots of the Suzuki and the weights of the Rolands. Kurzweil hammers are also affected to a degree by the cracking plastic.
These early designs have been changed for better reliability. The construction style of the weight seems to affect the lightness of the action. The total weight and the length it is distanced from the pivot seems to govern these properties. One of my customers commented that when he got tired of playing his Yamaha, he switched to his Kawai and could keep going with the light action. The biggest difference I found in the action was the difference in hammer design. The Yamaha uses a long steel bar with a U-bend in it. The Kawai had a lead weight at the end of a plastic arm, concentrating the weight at the far tip of the hammer. The trade-off is that the Kawai arm is weak and the Yamaha is very strong. Performance or reliability is your choice again.
The issues with Suzuki plastic is a bit different, The cast plastic is the bearing hub for the hammer pivot. The shaft that it rotates on is 5/16" aluminum with two slots down the length of it to carry lubrication. First, the plastic is under a lot of pressure as the key depresses it because the key pushes the hammer close to its center of rotation. This pressure abrades the plastic bearing surface and eventually, cracks appear. It also squeezes the plastic, making the bearing hub a bit wider, until it rubs against the carrier and sticks. The slots on the shaft caused problems in early Suzukis when the slot rotates to the high pressure area of the hammer bushing. A hard key hit can notch the bushing as the metal bites into it because Suzuki didn't deburr the slot when it was cut. Then it jams the hammer. The worst part was when the edge of the slot deburred itself and left aluminum shavings embedded in the plastic bushing. They now deburr the slot, but I have seen no method to keep the slot from rotating into the critical pressure area.
The other common issue with Suzukis that irritates people is the feel of the keys. More than any other electric piano in my experience, Suzukis depend on the lubrication between the key and the hammer to maintain the proper feel. There is a platform about 1/4"x1/2" that slides along the hammer pin. Suzuki uses a small amount of silicon grease there to lubricate the sliding motion that accompanies the downward motion of the key. Unfortunately, the grease either melts and runs out or there was't enough to start with. I used lubriplate 105 engine rebuilding grease on the keys and hammer pivots without any problems. I wish I could find a good silicone grease, but haven't found any yet.
The key is to keep your Suzuki out of direct prolonged sunlight. The temperature of the black case will cause temperatures in the piano to soar and melt out the grease.
Repairing these kinds of problems is a matter of finding a tech with the right experience to tackle the job. Same as finding the right kind of doctor for your ailment. Service is coordinated by the factory reps and that is the first place to start. While Yamaha seems to have the most robust service capability, all manufacturers have technical reps at their import offices to maintain some semblance of customer service. Parts availibility is dicey though and may have to wait for an overseas shipment if they can't rob a part off one sitting in their office. Be aware though, manufacturers, Yamaha included, will have very few parts for units over 7 years old.
No, I won't work on your piano unless you live in the little town I live in Orgeons high desert.
In terms of design,I think I've highlighted those issues. As far as quality of workmanship, the Suzuki keybeds show signs of hand finishing with the keys being shimmed for evenness. The new hammers are heavier at the bass end now. an improvement over the early uniform hammers. The woodwork, while very shiny, is of TV cabinet quality inside on all the electric pianos I've worked on. This help to control the resonance of the piano, which is really a speaker cabinet.
I hope this helps to put some facts behind this discussion and now I think I'll git back to this keybed and finish tuning it up.

Great post!

So, if someone with a Suzuki digital piano would start to have the problem where keys are "sticking" (returning to position slowly, not returning, leaving tone generator activated) are you saying that the problem is likely a lubrication issue and that the keyboard is serviceable by lubricating the keys?

In a word, no. While just relubrication of the key platform will work for high initial resistance to the key moving, the problem you describe will need refurbishing the hammer arms. Dissassemble the piano and Unplug and remove the keybed. Remove the locking plates behind the keys. Push the keys back to remove them from their mounting slots. Do all the white keys first. then remove the black keys. Be sure to keep the little hammer pin covers in order as the hammers are different thicknesses. Remove the switch circuit boards. Then remove the black hammer arm carriers. Note the different length screws here. Now pull the shafts out of the carrier. Number the hammers with a sharpie to keep them in order. It will probably be stiff to remove the shafts, but it should slide in easily when you are done. An electric screwdriver really helps with disassembly, but use a manual for reassembly.
Ream out roughened bushings with a 5/16" reamer. A sharp drill in the drill press works well. dull the cornerd of the drill so it doesn't cut the bushing surface. Then run the arm up and down the meduim speed drill for just a couple seconds to smooth it out. Keep it perpendicular to munimize wobble. Check often.
Then check the width of the bushing at it's widest point. confirm you have enough clearance in the mounting slot. With wear, the bushing gets wider. If it is tight, use a flat file and file away the thickness until it fits in the slot smoothly.
Cracks in the plastic of the hammer arm can be filled with super glue to reinforce the plastic. Cracks inside the bushing may need replaced arms.
The shaft that the hammers rotate on must be cleaned and polished with steel wool. The slots must be smoothly deburred as well as the ends of the shafts. I have seen the aluminum shafts replaced with steel once.
Lubricate each hammer bushing with a dollop of Lubriplate 105. Coat the shaft as well, insuring that the slots are filled with lubricant. You want as much as you can get into the workings of the hammer bushings. The slots should be positioned a 9 and 3 o'clock.
Like a car mechanic, most won't consider changing only one piston. An entire rebuild is called for when doing this kind of work. So, all the keys should be examined and refurbished. As well as the mechanical rebuild, the silicone switch assemblies should be cleaned at this time as well. Isopropyl alcohol will not damage the circuit contacts and a good scrubbing on the black contacts on the circuit board will improve playability. The rubber portion of the switch is more delicate to handle, but alcohol will do the trick. Not rubbing alcohol, 100% isopropyl is the ticket. The silicone switch tower occasionally splits around the ring and in this case the switch strip must be replaced. Claen all debris from around the strips. Reassemble the switch strips carefully so as not to puncture the strip as you are inserting the mounting pins. A stepped pin that pushes the center a bit then hits the shoulder to prevent too much streching works. A square connector pin with a plastic header around it is what I use.
Then take a toothbrush to the felts where the keys have compressed it. Check to ensure that all the felt glue is intact.
Be careful on reassembly as the plastic can't take much torque. Stripped screws can be mended with a short piece of wire inserted in the hole before the screw.
Good luck and may your Suzuki sing again.

TimB, in the time since this post, have you seen any S-350 or MG-350 models? How would you compare their keyboard action and sound to that of a decent piano? What about other digitals for $2-3K? This digital piano looks tempting, but I can't find a local store where I could try one.

Does anyone else have an informed opinion on these Suzuki models?

And, we still have never heard Gyro attempt to play a decent concerto (perhaps one by Rachmaninoff?) on his Williams Overture piano.

Here is a link to a review:
http://azpianonews.blogspot.com/2011/03/suzuki-digital-piano-review-r21-dp1000.html