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#686380 - 11/23/04 05:07 AM Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
wallacetai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Melbourne
Hi,

After I purchased my HP103, one of my friends who wants to learn piano as well. He wants to spend a little bit more than me and buy a better digital piano for the next 5 years without the need to change to a better model.

So should I suggest him to buy the Roland HP107 or Yamaha CLP170??

I know there are fans of both model, but it will be appreciated if you can give an objective view as both model are top of the range digital piano (he doesn't really like the "intelligent" digital piano with too many functions).

Can anyone who has played either or both model (CLP170 and HP107) give your opinion on these. It seems that the Yamaha has a powerful speaker, yet the Roland's design of the Grand Space seems to make more sense.

Thanks
Wallace

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#686381 - 11/23/04 09:13 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
signa Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 8482
Loc: Ohio, USA
i tried CLP170 before, and the feel is quite nice. never tried Roland though.

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#686382 - 11/23/04 01:00 PM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
Daren Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Staffordshire,England
The 170 has a vary thin sound compared to the roland.
But if you listen to both very carfully they are very different in sound, he must make his own mind up.
I think there is a equal amount of opiniuns in choosing either.

I compared the Hp7 & Clp 170 sat next to each other.I much liked the roland over the yamaha when I played the moonlight sonata by Beethoven.

But I prefered the yamaha when I played Clair-de-lune.

The roland is a mellow piano sound and the Yamaha is a bright sound.

Regards
Daz

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#686383 - 11/24/04 02:00 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
wallacetai Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/23/04
Posts: 27
Loc: Melbourne
So it seems both sounds are nice, how do you guys compare the "feel" of the HP107/HP7 against the Yamaha CLP170 then?

The 3 Step dynamic sampling on Yamaha's CLP170, how many steps are there in Roland HP7/HP107??

cheers
Wallace

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#686384 - 11/24/04 04:50 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
SteveY Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 1820
Loc: NJ
First of all, don't get too hung up on how many steps of sampling a digital piano has. That's not the only important factor. It's only a tool to create a more expressive sounding instrument. So use your ears -- which sounds more expressive to you. Perhaps you'll pick the instrument with a higher number of samples per patch -- perhaps you won't.

That said, I have no idea how many levels of sampling the Roland HP keyboards have. The Roland keyboards I have typically use 4 levels of velocity switching.
_________________________
PianoWorld disclaimer: musician, producer, arranger, author, clinician, consultant, PS2 aficionado, secret agent...

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#686385 - 11/24/04 09:32 PM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
ProPianoGuyBC Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 388
I refer you to our animated discussion on the HP103 to understand more about the ROLAND sampling technology.

The variability in the Roland Piano Tone works like this.... If you have ever heard of a term called inharmonicity you will know what I mean by saying that the tone can be continuously variable in timbre... If not, I will explain...
With musical Instrument sounds, harmonics are generated at the integral multiples of the frequency of the fundamental, these frequencies and their volumes determine the tone, or timbre of of a piano....For instance, a piano's sounds are generated by string vibrations, and when a string vibrates with its two ends at the fulcra, the fundamental is generated. Because piano strings can be rigid and thick, the dividing point of each string at which no vibration occurs has a specific length. As the vibrations occur between a strings dividing point and its end, the vibration will occur over a length that's (partial) shorter than half the original length. (These "partials" are called formants.) This causes the second harmonic's frequency to be slightly higher than twice that of the fundamental. Same with the 3rd and so on. This phenomenon is known as inharmonicity and is inherent to the acoustic piano.

Now. Roland has developed a proprietary cutting edge DSP called a formant filter. In other words it reproduces both the fundamentals and formants (partials) at a level relative to the velocity of the keystrike in real time. Just like the response of an acoustic piano, the resonances (fundamentals and partials) occur continuously and variably (real time).
Both the presence and Balance of these formants (partials) must be maintained if an authentic piano sound is to be reproduced. Roland's formant filter maintains the presence AND Balance of these formants to produce the variability of the tone and its harmonics (both fundamental and partial)....
This is why I feel well qualified in saying that the timbre of the piano tone in a Roland piano is continuously variable in REAL TIME. Although the samples are taken at various (4 for the most part) levels, the Formant filter is what gives Roland the "edge" IMO.
Your ear is the best judge though. All this written above means nothing if you dont like the sound of the piano! Try them both for yourself and see what works best for you!

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#686386 - 11/25/04 06:51 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
Rodney Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 735
Loc: Caledon ON, Canada
Synthesis techniques, filters and effects can go a long way to recovering (and even enhancing) the quality of tone from the samples (either looped and compressed, or not). Overall the quality of these effects are generally very good in all of the current model synths (digital piano).

It has been my experience that these tricks and tweaks can only go so far. The quality of the original samples (and their looping) as well as the quality of the programming (just because you own a hammer doesn't mean you can build house) will have the greatest impact.

The samples of all the digital instruments begin from DIFFERENT acoustic pianos with their own character, timbre and flaws. These will be passed on to the digital instrument and the resulting sound will be dramatically different.

For example, most people would agree that Yamaha digital pianos sound brite while Roland sound more mellow.

Forget all the tricks, technology and jargon, and just go and play everything you can get your hands on until you find that one instrument that moves you to play. There will always be a new/new thing that will make one keyboard revolutionary over another (after all these are digital "computers" and we all know what the life cycle of computers is like)

Rodney

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#686387 - 11/27/04 07:18 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
MetroPhil Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 5
Loc: Montreal
Does anyone know is the CLP-170 will be replaced next year? Any rumor in that respect before the NAMM show in January? I am really tempted to buy one but I would be sorry to buy anĘ"outdated" model. My wish list: a wooden keyboard but without the grand piano furniture

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#686388 - 12/02/04 08:23 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
Stahlbrand Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 32
Loc: Sweden
I have a Yamaha CLP-170 and I have been playing it for about an hour a day for the last year. It has advantages and disadvantages.

The "normal" grand piano sound is a bit too sharp too fit my playing and it is hard to play pianissimo in a proper way comparing with a acoustic piano. Also, the highest key could be more clear and powerful.
But the "Mellow piano" sound is really good and is the one I normally use. I have adjusted the sound quite a bit and use the following setting:
- Reduced the bass under 100 Hz with -4
- Powered up the treble over 1 kHz with +4
- Changed the touch from default 64 to 59
- Change the effect to stage and increased it from default 10 to 24
- Increased the soundboard from default 10 to 25
- Use the "FullConcert" iAFC setting to provided a wider sound
- Changed the harmonic content to -16 (default 0)

This really changes the sound a lot and I think that before buying, you should experiment a lot with these setting to make sure to find settings that really fits you liking.

I have also played CLP-175 (baby grand model) with real wooden keys and with this version, you get a true feel on the keyboard as well.

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#686389 - 12/02/04 11:17 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
nan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/12/04
Posts: 140
Loc: San Francisco
Stahlbrand, Thanks for the tips on changing the settings -- I will have to try that. I have a CLP 990 and as time goes on I am very pleased with the purchase instead of my first choice to buy an entry level acoustic upright. I just tried a friend's Steinway grand (1950) and then changed my touch setting to lighter and that matched the acoustic much better than the medium setting. (Still I will want to have the medium setting on so as to get used to that too.) But the brighter sounds on the CLP are less to my taste so I'll have to figure out how to change all that. (Also prefer Mellow sound and have figured out that much at least!) Here's my question -- how does the key response, the range in sounds/touch compare with a real acoustic? I couldn't tell the difference between my CLP 990 and my friend's Steinway but then I am a beginner (three years).

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#686390 - 12/03/04 03:03 AM Re: Yamaha CLP170 vs HP107
Daren Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 243
Loc: Staffordshire,England
Is it much easier to play pianoissimo on the Hp107 than it is on the Clp170?

Daz

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