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#687230 - 12/21/08 04:23 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bear904:
I have 3 smart alecks all of whom qualify for MENSA! and all girls....who says God doesn't have a sense of humor?[/b]
Triple mean!
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#687231 - 12/21/08 04:28 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
jscomposer Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 537
Loc: The Boogie Down
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bear904:
BTW, the original question was never answered. Is there anything online to support digitals vs acoustics or vice versa? [/b]
That wasn't your initial question. Your initial question was: "What sources or persons quoted online, etc., are there that I can use to convince her that a digital is adequate for her needs? I don't want to install an acoustic in my house that I will be stuck with till I die and have to pay for numerous tunings as I live in FL with no central air."

In other words, you're trying to find some "authoritative source" that says she doesn't need an acoustic in the hopes of swaying her to a decision that you've already made for her. And you're wondering why she's protesting?

EDIT: I see Hugh Sung has come up again. To spin his endorsement of Pianoteq into an endorsement of your decision to get your daughter a digital piano would be disingenuous. Hugh Sung is actually a member on this forum, and you can contact him via his website. I'd be interesting to hear what he has to say.
_________________________
Joshua Seth plays Joshua Seth

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#687232 - 12/21/08 09:41 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Rented Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 174
Loc: Spain
Here's one. How authoritative he is I will leave up to you.

Follow Your Bliss: Learn to Play Piano in 2009: What Instrument Should I Choose?

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#687233 - 12/21/08 08:12 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Hugh Sung Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/16/06
Posts: 376
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Hi Bear - someone alerted me to this topic, and i'm flattered to have been quoted by BazC (although i will need to clarify that a bit). First, a couple of observations, then if you'll allow a few recommendations:

1. It sounds like your daughter is sensitive enough to recognize that most digital pianos are vastly inferior to acoustic pianos - most people believe it or not don't realize what the differences are, which can be as follows:

2. She may not be able to articulate why, but she's recognizing that most digital pianos only have about 3 or 4 different digital sound levels per note. That's like trying to paint a masterpiece with 3 or 4 crayons!! You're missing all the acoustic/analog equivalents of infinite ranges of touch, coloring, attack, post-attack shading, damper pedal effects, una corda effects, cross string harmonic effects, and several other factors that can affect how an acoustic piano produces sound. For several years, i also hated digital pianos, but i just never understood exactly why - on the surface they sounded "ok", but they felt too "artificial" and "limited". It wasn't until i did some serious research did i start to understand some of those limiting factors that i just outlined above.

My recommendations:

1. Talent needs encouragement and support. Your daughter sounds remarkably talented, given her amazing range of instrumental abilities! (I really envy those that can play more than one instrument!!) I might start by recognizing her talents and telling her directly ("Honey, that's amazing that you're able to tell the difference between digital and acoustic pianos!" or, "I've heard that Sibelius is a great program for professional composers - that's terrific that you've taken to it so well!") If she continues, she has the potential to become a great conductor, composer, artistic director, music festival/conservatory/production administrator, instrumental retailer/consultant, the list really goes on and on, given her wide range of musical interests and capabilities!

2. I would openly discuss your concerns about an acoustic instrument with her - you had mentioned the "hassles" of tuning and the thought of being "stuck" with an instrument. Have you considered that tuning sessions could potentially introduce your daughter to the inner workings of pianos and a deeper understanding of the components that make them work? If tuning costs are an issue, perhaps she could pay for them herself by taking on a part-time job, giving her some terrific lessons on responsibility and budgeting? And if the cost of the piano itself is an issue, you might want to consider a new crop of affordable, high quality instruments like the Cunningham Piano (not sure if they deliver to Central Florida, but it would be well worth asking!!)

3. On the digital piano front, i need to clarify that i only use my Roland RD-700SX and Casio Privia 110 as keyboard controllers - their built-in sounds suffer from the same limitations that i outlined above. To fully complement any digital keyboard, you really need to get an amazing virtual piano program called Pianoteq - unlike digital pianos which play back 3 or 4 pre-recorded sound samples per key, Pianoteq actually creates the sound in realtime, factoring in the full MIDI velocity scale (0-127) and applying string/hammer physics, allowing for a much fuller range of expressive touch and damper pedal control than i've ever seen in any other synthesized piano. Pianoteq runs on a computer, connected to a digital piano via MIDI, and its polyphony will be limited by your computer's processor speed. I'd be really curious to hear about your daughter's reaction to the Pianoteq program.

If at all possible, i would actually recommend you reconsider getting your daughter an acoustic piano if you're serious about supporting her musical development. I'd ALSO recommend getting her a digital keyboard together with Pianoteq. The acoustic piano will give your daughter the aural and technical training that is simply unparalleled on the highest level. The digital piano setup, on the other hand, would give your daughter valuable insights into digital technologies that are critical in today's music markets, as well as the flexibility to perform in spaces that might not have a readily available acoustic piano. The best of both worlds, i suppose ;\)

I do hope this long-winded post helps to show that there are more options than simply getting or not getting a digital piano. Most of all, i hope your daughter gets the encouragement she needs to realize her full potential and imagination to think outside of the box and see all the amazing possibilities around her!
_________________________
Hugh Sung
Co-Founder, AirTurn Inc.

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#687234 - 12/22/08 03:23 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
BazC Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 711
Loc: Cambridgeshire, UK
Very good of you to take the time to offer your advice Hugh!
_________________________

Korg SP200, Pianoteq

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#687235 - 12/22/08 02:00 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
mallard Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 78
 Quote:
Originally posted by Hugh Sung:
Hi Bear - someone alerted me to this topic, and i'm flattered to have been quoted by BazC (although i will need to clarify that a bit). First, a couple of observations, then if you'll allow a few recommendations:

1. It sounds like your daughter is sensitive enough to recognize that most digital pianos are vastly inferior to acoustic pianos - most people believe it or not don't realize what the differences are, which can be as follows:

2. She may not be able to articulate why, but she's recognizing that most digital pianos only have about 3 or 4 different digital sound levels per note. That's like trying to paint a masterpiece with 3 or 4 crayons!! You're missing all the acoustic/analog equivalents of infinite ranges of touch, coloring, attack, post-attack shading, damper pedal effects, una corda effects, cross string harmonic effects, and several other factors that can affect how an acoustic piano produces sound. For several years, i also hated digital pianos, but i just never understood exactly why - on the surface they sounded "ok", but they felt too "artificial" and "limited". It wasn't until i did some serious research did i start to understand some of those limiting factors that i just outlined above.

My recommendations:

1. Talent needs encouragement and support. Your daughter sounds remarkably talented, given her amazing range of instrumental abilities! (I really envy those that can play more than one instrument!!) I might start by recognizing her talents and telling her directly ("Honey, that's amazing that you're able to tell the difference between digital and acoustic pianos!" or, "I've heard that Sibelius is a great program for professional composers - that's terrific that you've taken to it so well!") If she continues, she has the potential to become a great conductor, composer, artistic director, music festival/conservatory/production administrator, instrumental retailer/consultant, the list really goes on and on, given her wide range of musical interests and capabilities!

2. I would openly discuss your concerns about an acoustic instrument with her - you had mentioned the "hassles" of tuning and the thought of being "stuck" with an instrument. Have you considered that tuning sessions could potentially introduce your daughter to the inner workings of pianos and a deeper understanding of the components that make them work? If tuning costs are an issue, perhaps she could pay for them herself by taking on a part-time job, giving her some terrific lessons on responsibility and budgeting? And if the cost of the piano itself is an issue, you might want to consider a new crop of affordable, high quality instruments like the Cunningham Piano (not sure if they deliver to Central Florida, but it would be well worth asking!!)

3. On the digital piano front, i need to clarify that i only use my Roland RD-700SX and Casio Privia 110 as keyboard controllers - their built-in sounds suffer from the same limitations that i outlined above. To fully complement any digital keyboard, you really need to get an amazing virtual piano program called Pianoteq - unlike digital pianos which play back 3 or 4 pre-recorded sound samples per key, Pianoteq actually creates the sound in realtime, factoring in the full MIDI velocity scale (0-127) and applying string/hammer physics, allowing for a much fuller range of expressive touch and damper pedal control than i've ever seen in any other synthesized piano. Pianoteq runs on a computer, connected to a digital piano via MIDI, and its polyphony will be limited by your computer's processor speed. I'd be really curious to hear about your daughter's reaction to the Pianoteq program.

If at all possible, i would actually recommend you reconsider getting your daughter an acoustic piano if you're serious about supporting her musical development. I'd ALSO recommend getting her a digital keyboard together with Pianoteq. The acoustic piano will give your daughter the aural and technical training that is simply unparalleled on the highest level. The digital piano setup, on the other hand, would give your daughter valuable insights into digital technologies that are critical in today's music markets, as well as the flexibility to perform in spaces that might not have a readily available acoustic piano. The best of both worlds, i suppose ;\)

I do hope this long-winded post helps to show that there are more options than simply getting or not getting a digital piano. Most of all, i hope your daughter gets the encouragement she needs to realize her full potential and imagination to think outside of the box and see all the amazing possibilities around her! [/b]
great post!....which begs the next logical extension:

How soon before we can see a digital stage piano with graded keys with pianoteq as the core sound producer?

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#687236 - 12/23/08 07:42 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
TimR Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/17/04
Posts: 3200
Loc: Virginia, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by rocket88:

For example, I have a beautiful acoustic at home, and use a Roland Rd700sx for gigging. [/b]
Don't neglect this small but not minor point. While some forum members will play most of their lives in the comfort of their practice room, we're talking about a potential career.

This student needs to be gigging now not later. Sooner or later she will need a stage piano and it might as well be the first step. She can easily make enough money to buy an acoustic later.

I suggest something like the Yamaha P-60, P-120 series or rocket's Roland.
_________________________
gotta go practice

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#687237 - 12/23/08 09:49 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1739
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#687238 - 12/23/08 10:46 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
bitWrangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/07
Posts: 1789
Loc: Central TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by doremi:
A vote for the acoustic piano.

The 'good digital is better than bad acoustic' opinion has been tossed up innumerous times from a performer point of view. IMHO, things look different from a developing skills point of view.

Even a bad acoustic is a life instrument, whereas even a good digital is still a pretty dead instrument in the sense that you can't play with it (play in the sense of a child playing) the way you can with an acoustic to develop inital piano playing skills (just as a child plays to develop useful life skills).

Obviously, I am not saying to get a bad acoustic. But I do say to get an acoustic first (to learn on the real thing), and a digital later (for gigging and composing). She could buy a Steinway concert grand for herself later on.
[/b]
I completely disagree. This may be an issue of degrees here, but we have run across plenty of bad acoustics that the kids were completely turned off by. Perhaps if the kids are very young and know nothing better, but from any other perspective, other than mechanical, a bad acoustic I think can actually be entirely negative. It doesn't take very long for kids to start getting very frustrated with a perpetually out of tune piano with a lousy action where keys stick and some don't work.

OOC, where do you base your statement about digitals being "dead" and kids preferring an acoustic in terrible shape to a decent digital? Is it personal experience? Was there some study done?

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#687239 - 12/23/08 11:51 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1739
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#687240 - 12/23/08 02:10 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
natedaddy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Austin, TX
To answer your question about pro-Digital resources, you can look at this page (at a piano dealership that sells digitals and acoustics) or you can talk to Scott the Piano Guy Houston (he has a PBS show and a ton of YouTube videos -- he's sponsored by Roland, so of course he's biased, but he has lots of good things to say about it. Some on these boards, even.) Unfortunately, his website is more e-commerce than information. He does have some video testimonials on Roland's website, though, and probably some good stuff on YouTube. (And he doesn't post much, but he's a member on these boards, too.)

The big advantage of acoustics is: they have "infinte resolution," both in feel, feedback, and sound. DP's have at most 9 or 10 samples for each key, and they digitally adapt those to mimic the sound and feel you get from a piano. High-end models are very good at mimicing the sound and feel, but at best it's going to sound like a high-quality stereo playing a high-quality stereo recording of a great piano in response to your finger touches.

Digitals, on the other hand, have a lot of advantages: They..
  • Never need tuning
  • Are much lighter, and take up less space
  • Can record and playback
  • Can connect to a computer for input or output
  • Can be practiced silently, with headphones
  • Are modeled after super-high-end Grands -- $50k type instruments, and they can surpass low-end acoustics (spinets and ancient honky-tonk uprights at least) in feel and sound
  • Typically cost less than acoustics (for whatever that is worth -- even without the price component, there are plenty of good reasons for Digital)


Your daughter may have a bad impression of digitals because she's only familiar with lowest-end ones. They suck it up pretty bad compared to good ones -- when I was in college our practice rooms had these 1980's-era digital pianos that made this vacuum-tube background hum, spring-loaded keys, and produced a sound that was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike a piano. But technology marches on, and high-end DP's now are much better than that.

And ... if all 3 are going to play it, and you have room for it and aren't planning to move around much in the future and don't require "quiet" practice, non-piano sounds, or computer hookups, and you can afford regular (2x/year) tunings AND -- this is important -- you can make it clear that this is an informed, strategic move on your part and not a giving in -- then an acoustic might be the right move for you.

Hm, it's a frustrating thing -- your daughter is right about acoustics making a better sound and being best for advanced play, but her attitude is deeply spoiled. If you have kids that smart, you are probably not a dummy yourself -- surely you understand that this isn't about the instrument she wants to play, it's about her being a little prima donna who wants to get her way.

You have a bigger issue, though, and that is your precocious prodigy of a snowflake is acting like a bratty little toddler. You may have to ask yourself, do you want your progeny to grow up to be "Britney Spears" type train-wrecks, or do you want them to be good people, even if it means maybe not being a super-success in the musical world? My advice is to tell your daughter "forget it, I'm not getting you a piano at all." Wait until she gets a job and buys her own -- a summer at Kroger or Wendy's, and she can buy whatever she can afford with the money she makes. Or (failing that,) at least wait until she asks nicely, and shows real gratefulness for whatever her parents decide to bless her with. Even if you decide to get an acoustic, it should be on your terms, not hers, and if it were me, I wouldn't do it unless the kid is already resolved to be happy with a Digital or whatever else they may or may not get.

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#687241 - 12/24/08 03:04 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
88Key_PianoPlayer Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/02/02
Posts: 1906
Loc: El Cajon, CA
I remember about 11 years ago being at a friends house in Virginia. They had this 76-key Roland digital piano that I'd guess was no newer than the 1980s - probably more like 70s or so. The action was quite poor (by even the standards then), and it sounded absolutely NOTHING like a piano!
Based on that (and probably having played a couple other Rolands back then), I was thinking I absolutely HATED Roland digital pianos.

But... fast forward to a couple years ago... and yeowzers did I get a shocking slap in the face, to put it figuratively! I played a Roland RD-700sx at Guitar Center.... and... WOW! Roland has come a LONG way since I last played one.
They basically went from, in my opinion, worst digital piano.... to pretty much best digital piano.
Also, I have liked the RD-700GX, the RD-300GX, and the Fantom-X and G series pianos from them as well.
I'm not much of a fan of Yamaha digitals, though, but I do play them occasionally as the opportunity arises. The Casio Privia line (especially the newest ones) are ones that I like, as well. (I had actually bought a PX-575 a year or so ago, but returned it because I found I couldn't live with the 32-note polyphony limitation on that model.)
_________________________
Associate Member - Piano Technicians Guild
1950 (#144211) Baldwin Hamilton
1956 (#167714) Baldwin Hamilton
You can right-click my avatar for an option to view a larger version.

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#687242 - 12/24/08 04:47 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Discotheque Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 81
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Alright for God's sake people stop comparing very good digitals to acoustic pianos that only qualify for firewood. They are NOT in the same category, and they are NOT gonna cost the same. If you're going to compare a GOOD digital, that will cost around $1500-$2000 then compare it to an ACOUSTIC that will cost that much either new or used. You can get a pretty good acoustic for that price that will compare and be (IMO) superior to digitals. I mean comparing a $2000 digital to an acoustic that has to be given away? What the hell is the point? Digital wins, big deal. Compare it to something that costs the same.

Also can we stop making statements like "your daughter is a brat" and crap like that? ANY conclusion anyone here is making on the OP's daughter is based SOLELY on the OP's first post. Nobody has met his daughter, nobody has met the OP. For all we know he was frustrated when he posted that and she's actually a sweet girl. Cut the crap, stop giving some random guy who you don't know random advice on how to parent a child you've never met. Best case scenario: he ignores it. Worst case scenario: he takes the SUPREMELY UNINFORMED advice given to him and screws up his family. Seriously, who the hell do you people think you are? You don't know his daughter his spoiled, you've never met her or the OP so why not think about what you're writing?

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#687243 - 12/24/08 05:36 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
YabbaDabba Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 14
Loc: California
Wait till she is old enough to get a job and let her get her own piano. Problem solved!
_________________________
Cheers! Yabba

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#687244 - 12/25/08 02:29 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bear904:
Her primary instrument is the french horn. She also plays clarinet, sax, that marching horn thing, piano and is now taking violin lessons so that she can better write music for her compositions. I made the mistake of buying her Sibelius software to write music and she took off with it.
[/b]
Piano is not even the girls primary or secondary instrument - therefore, a digital piano is fine especialy for composing. I say this as a professional pianist and a piano teacher.
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#687245 - 12/25/08 03:05 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Larisa Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 498
Loc: Philadelphia
Still, if she learns to play piano on a digital, she'll be handicapped when she gets to play on an acoustic. A digital is simply not as sensitive as an acoustic - it doesn't respond the same way an acoustic does. It's a different instrument.

I'd say just rent an acoustic piano until she goes to college. It's really cheap. I rented one for a while; it was a very nice instrument, and the cost was something like $25/month.

Also, as a parenting tip: ask her why she's so against getting a digital. It's always good to ask, and to listen to the answer with an open mind.

When I was 13 years old, we were very poor and could not afford any kind of piano. A very kind and wonderful person donated us a piano. It was a decent enough instrument, and my parents were very happy with it. I could not force myself to play it. Had they not asked me why, we would have had raging battles around that piano; there would have been all sorts of ugly words thrown around ("entitlement", "me me me", "egoism", etc.) Instead (because I have good parents), they asked me what was wrong. I told them - I have perfect pitch, and the piano in question was consistently 1/2 tone flat. They could not hear anything wrong, but I could, and it drove me nuts.

No, I did not force my parents to buy me a piano; I knew we couldn't afford one. I practiced at school, or at a kind relative's house. Nor do I have an entitlement attitude. But playing that instrument caused me physical distress. Is it egoistic to want to avoid physical distress?

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#687246 - 12/25/08 11:30 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larisa:
Still, if she learns to play piano on a digital, she'll be handicapped when she gets to play on an acoustic. A digital is simply not as sensitive as an acoustic - it doesn't respond the same way an acoustic does. It's a different instrument.[/b]
Honestly, I don't agree. Of course digital will never be as expressive as a acoustic, but you can do a lot of practicing and composing work on a digital. Specially, if she has acoustic in the school and she can practice on this instrument from time to time, buying digital is not ideal, but it's still great option.
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#687247 - 12/26/08 10:11 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Jazz+ Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/04
Posts: 838
Loc: Banned
It takes me about ten minutes to adjust back to an acoustic piano after playing a digital for a month. Training on a digital is not that big of a handicap, especially when her primary instrument is violin and not even the piano.
_________________________
Roland FP-4 digital piano, Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano.

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#687248 - 12/28/08 12:44 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Bear904 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 64
Loc: FL
Some clarification. Yes, I'm poor. I'm just a convict guard at a state prison. Her primary instrument is the "french" horn. "Horn" for those technically correct. I was in fact, looking at the $2000 range. $3000 tops. CLP-280/380 being my digital choice. Used Yamaha my acoustic choice. Prodigy was too strong a word but, she's damn close in my opinion. She just made all-state orchestra. They only pick 4 horns. That makes her one of the top 4 in the state amongst ALL high school students. She's only in the 10th grade... She plays several instruments, composes and conducts. The piano is REQUIRED for her college degree as part and parcel of the degree. She's also dual enrolled in the local Community College and will be going on from there. I expect she will have her HS Diploma and Associates by the time she graduates from HS. This after we bumped her up a grade in Elementary School.

Having said all that, and I'm damned proud of her, I still think she's a spoiled rotten brat. I mainly have taken the advice of the above and put everything on hold at the moment to see what her reaction will be. She has access to a couple of upright acoustics (granted, they are of poor quality) so she's not being abused ;\)

Every new post seems to shed a different angle on things tho. This thread has really made me sit back and THINK! Thanks for the replies everybody! Like I said, diversity is a good thing.
_________________________
Just because you are paranoid does not mean someone is still not out to get you.
1986 Kawai UST-7

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#687249 - 12/28/08 01:16 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1739
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#687250 - 12/28/08 06:48 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Bear904 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 64
Loc: FL
Doremi,
She behaves beautifully in public. I have never had any problems with her behavior other than her tendency to correct her elders (not always a good thing to do - correcting the boss can be hazardous to your job). Her manners are correct and proper. She knows her mother and I would kill her otherwise. When I say a spoiled rotten brat, I am referring to her expectations as to what she thinks she is entitled to and what she will "settle" for.
_________________________
Just because you are paranoid does not mean someone is still not out to get you.
1986 Kawai UST-7

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#687251 - 12/28/08 10:48 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5484
 Quote:
I was in fact, looking at the $2000 range. $3000 tops.
you can get a very good used acoustic upright for that kind of money. look for a charles walter, or a baldwin.

do you have a room in your house you can close up with a dehumidifier running? if you do, and you install a damppchaser in the upright, your climate won't destroy the piano. the piano's dealer can advise you.

your daughter is right about the acoustic being superior, and the fact that she has refined tastes does not make her a "spoiled rotten brat." it makes her someone with refined sensibilities that could bring creative gifts to the world.

she should have the right tool, since you can afford it.

now, correcting her elders is something else again! ;\)
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#687252 - 12/28/08 12:56 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
MichaelR Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 15
Loc: Little Rock, AR
Music is primarily about soul, not how expensive your instrument is.

You should consider your budget. Sure you can buy a used acoustic for relatively little. My Roland sounds better than a lot of cheap used acoustics. If you're looking at less than $2000, I think finding an acoustic with better tone than a digi is going to be really tough, maybe impossible.

If she will be going to college out of town and will need the piano with her, the decision is really a no-brainer. She will want the piano in her room, and the department will have acoustics.

If you're set, just buy the digital and put it in the house. She'll play it. So she might be mad at first, but it'll pass once she starts playing it.

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#687253 - 12/28/08 01:41 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
doremi Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/06/07
Posts: 1739
_________________________
I am 'doremi' because I play scales smile
Had I progressed to playing chords,
I would be 'domisol' shocked

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#687254 - 12/28/08 01:43 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
MichaelR Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 15
Loc: Little Rock, AR
a little more nuance (after discovering the rest of the posts on this thread)-

I guess opinions differ over the quality issue, and I suppose we won't resolve that. I love my digital, the tone is so so so much better than the two similarly priced acoustics I had growing up. And, since my tastes aren't limited to strictly classical, I love the versatility it offers. I have a fairly bottom-of-the-line Roland player piano. It doesn't have the depth of even a $4k upright, but it can still make wonderful music. And I honestly find the "thin" sound of the $2k range uprights I've played to be...well, I don't like it (though the talented can make great music on those, too).

And as the piano is a tertiary instrument, I. personally, don't see a reason to spend more than you can afford. Still, there's a big difference in tone b/w the two main digitals, Yamaha and Roland - briefly it's bright vs. mellow. Fender vs. Gibson. Likely your daughter will prefer one over the other.

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#687255 - 12/29/08 02:29 AM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Discotheque Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 81
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Well if she's got a sense of entitlement, really the issue is that of money isn't it, rather than acoustic vs. digital? $2000 is $2000, whether on an acoustic or digital, then she can decide? Also with an acoustic if upkeep costs are an issue make her pay? Just throwing some suggestions, only you will know, I don't know your daughter.

Personally I think the issue of digital vs. acoustic is not really related to your daughter's supposed sense of entitlement (I don't mean disrespect by saying supposed, it's just I've never met her so I'd rather not prejudge either way). Anyway, if all you have is $2000, if she'd rather spend that on an acoustic (I would...) so be it, no? The acoustic my parents bought for me 15 years ago cost $1500 (would probably cost more now I guess)... and it's quite good, albeit it was quite a deal (woman had to move and just wanted to get rid of it).

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#687256 - 01/04/09 11:02 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Bear904 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 64
Loc: FL
Thank you one and all. I digested all of your advice and bit the bullet. I had to agree that I HAD made the decision for my daughter without involving her in the decision making process which created much discord. I never doubted that a good quality acoustic was better. It's just that, given our situation and budget, a digital was the "logical" choice. Women and musicians do not deal with logic very well especially when it is formulated by someone else....heh heh. I DO however still resent that she would not entertain the idea of a digital even though she had no knowledge on the subject and was unwilling to even try one.

I went back to the drawing board and started researching acoustics again. I ended up deciding that a Kawai or Yamaha was the only safe way to go given my level of piano knowledge. Altho, there are pitfalls amongst the models if you are not carefull. Again, thanks to Piano World and Larry Fine's book, I muddled my way through. I then started hitting Craigs List. TA DA! I am now the proud owner of a used 1986 Kawai UST-7 that I bought in very good condition for $1350.





The tone on the piano is quite nice and much better than most of the uprights I have listened to. They really do have a nice mellow sound to them. They sound much bigger than the 46" that they are.

Needless to say, I am sadly leaving you kind folk and moving over to the Adult Beginner forum. I no longer have an excuse for not taking it up.

Thank you all. Your a great bunch. I don't know what I would have ended up with without you.

Doug
_________________________
Just because you are paranoid does not mean someone is still not out to get you.
1986 Kawai UST-7

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#687257 - 01/04/09 11:10 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Monica K. Offline

Platinum Supporter until Dec 31 2012


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 17777
Loc: Lexington, Kentucky
Congratulations, Doug, on your new piano. \:\) Yes, please do come join us on the AB forum. That way your piano won't sit there gathering dust after your daughter leaves for college.
_________________________
Mason & Hamlin A -- 91997
My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/pianomonica

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#687258 - 01/04/09 11:26 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
guest1013 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1239
Wow! Congratulations! What a happy ending to your search. Best wishes on your music making journey!
(How would you compare it to a 1957 spinet?)

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#687259 - 01/04/09 11:28 PM Re: Help with ungrateful stubborn child
Bear904 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 64
Loc: FL
There would be no comparison in my opinion between this piano and a spinet... It really does sound good!
_________________________
Just because you are paranoid does not mean someone is still not out to get you.
1986 Kawai UST-7

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