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I know it will be far from the same but which digital piano comes closest to emulating the feel and touch of a Steinway D or any other professional piano?

ATM I need convenience, so I think digital is the best temporary solution. I am interested in the GEM PRP-800, Yamaha P140 and Korg SP-250 as they are within my price range, as well as being portable. Which model plays most like a grand? It's touch should be heavier than an upright but the keys should be more responsive. Thus you can do trills, repeated notes, glissandi etc.

Sound is important, but is secondary to touch. I've learnt that you can "upgrade" the sound using modules. If this is true then sound needn't be a problem.

What are your experiences on the above?

Thanks.

A digital piano is good for practice while keeping the sound level low, it never needs tuning, and you can move it around quite easily. But none that I know of can match the touch of a concert grand piano.

My GRP-800 just arrived in Calgary so I was up at the dealers playing with it (it won't arrive at my house until mid next week). I was able to compare the key action/feel directly with a Mason & Hamlin acoustic Grand, the GRP-800 has a similar feel, almost the same weighting (a tiny bit lighter on the GRP), solid action, very easy to play with expression, great touch. Of course you will get differences in _feel_ between different acoustics as well but in this case the subjective feel is the closest to an acoustic grand that I have yet played on. (I've sampled Yamaha, Roland, Kawai and Suzuki) The Yamaha had the heaviest action and the Roland had the lightest action.

You state that the sound was of less importance than the feel but I will at least let you know that out of all the other Digital Pianos that I've tried the GRP800 has the best sound by a long ways. GEM uses a modeled sound approach instead of sampling and the difference is amazing. It sounds exactly like an acoustic grand (I was able to compare the two side by side in the show room) all of the subtle harmonic vibrations are present, the differences in the sound based on key velocity mimics the sound of an acoustic perfectly, the pedals operate exactly as if they were operating their equivalent acoustic counterparts and impart the same changes in the sound charcteristics that occur in an acoustic when doing the same action.

In terms of build quality, the product looks like it is very well built, good fit and finish to all parts.

If you are considering a GEM pRP-800 you won't go wrong. If you want a really good review of a different brand then check out Gyro's postings on his Casio. (Gyro raves about his unit and it comes across as being a quality unit as well)

Hope that helps (I know, it was a little (lot) biased towards the GEM, but it is an excellent piano)

By the way the PRP800 and the GRP800 are exactly the same except for the cabinetry.

Voyager

voyager did you try out the yamaha CLP270/280 and CVP307/309? just wondering how they compared to the GEM.

thanks

hello tm3

I was able to try the CLP270. Nice action, good feel, including escapement. The action on the upper end Yamaha Digital Pianos is definitly much better than that found on their lower end products. In comparison to the GEM the Yamaha action does not feel quite as responsive, this may be due to the weighting of the Yamaha keys. I found that the GEM (specifically the GRP800) is closer to the _feel_ of an acoustic grand than the Yamaha is. However one thing to note here is that the CLP270 when compared to a Yamaha acoustic grand comes out feeling very close as well, just a bit heavier on the action. There is a Yamaha Grand at the studio where I take vocal lessons and the feeling on that one is close to the GEM with the GEM being just a bit lighter but not by much. (The studio Yamaha has a lot of miles on it)

Here again my personal preference would move me toward the GEM just based on the feel alone. (The sound clinches it though)

Hope this helps a bit

Voyager

If you're looking for subtle improvements be sure to try the Yamaha CLP280. I found it's keyboard to be noticeable improvement over the CLP270.

Also, I would say the feeling of the CLP280 action is toward the "light" end of the spectrum (contrary to the often heard reputation for Yamaha digitals as being "heavy").

Unfortunately, the CLP280 is not in the same price class as a P140. But, to achieve your objective you might have to increase the budget.

Yes, as noted above, you gotta remember that ammong the top end grands, the feel of the key weight changes a lot. Some grands keys feel very heavy (heavier than Yamaha digital) while some feels very light.

I prefer Kawai and Yamaha digital actions over Roland which I think is too light for imitating the grand action (but feels pretty close to vertical pianos that I've played).

I have not tried out the GEM to compare.

Yamaha P140 is not the top end of the yamaha digital, so the keys won't feel as nice as the CLP270/280, although it will feel close. You might want to give P250 a try. It will feel better than P140.

Also, the sound IS important in the action feel. You will undoubtly pick the keyboard that will have better sound, becaue it gives the illusion of better key action. It really does.

Hello,

If the portability (moving to and from places, not within the same house) is one of your top priorities, then you should compromise the action feel because Yamaha P series has GH (Graded Hammer) key while CLP series (CLP 230 and up) has much improved GH3 key.

CLP 280 has natural wood key, which has slightly better action than GH3 but IMHO not superior enough to justify the cost increase over CLP 270. Hope this helps.

TD

I agree wholeheartedly!!!

Me too. If you ever go into a (digital) piano shop and idly try a few boards without turning the power on, you will get NO idea how the instrument feels in action.

There is a strong interaction between the sound and the feel of the key!

I tend to agree with Steve and Phil. A digital piano is best judged on the playing experience rather than individual characteristics. That includes both action and sound. One will always have an impact on how you perceive the other.
So it basically means 2 things: it's best to try as many pianos as you can. And it's a very subjective matter, that depends on the kind of actionand sound you are used to, which kinds you like, etc. I will agree with everything voyager has said on the GEM ( I have a pRP800), but that's me, not you.

I found the whole experience of picking a digital piano very interesting and enjoyable, and I learned a lot about the different makes and models. Wish you the same!
Cheers,
Pieter

I know this is impossible but my question is which one is the closest at the moment.

Mike, but which grand piano?

You are assuming that all the grand pianos have same action and feel. They don't.

For Kawai Grand, I think Kawai digital feels the closest.

For Yamaha grand, I think the Yamaha digital feels the closest.

For Steinway, maybe between Kawai and Yamaha.

Again, even within the same model, they can regulate the actions differently to make it feel heavy or light.

You really have to play them to know which you like the best. Any of the top brands't top models(Yamaha, GEM, Kawai, Roland) has very good actions.

Is there a particular grand piano you have in mind?

I was fortunate enough to test out the Drake engine on a RP-800 today. There is something definitely more sophisticated about the sound compared to the Yamaha P-series or even the Roland RD700SX. My statement about sound not being crucial, was following the news of a GEM
module RP-X. If this is true then a keyboard with the right connection can be transformed into a Drake machine.

My only small criticism of the RP-800 (polished black version) was that it seemed a tad plasticky. The gaps between the keys are larger than with the Yamahas. You can almost see what's under the keys reminding you that it is a piano emulator rather than a real acoustic piano.

I think the details on the action are a bit vague.

The GRP-800 has an Advanced Graded Hammer Action.
The RP-800 has an Enhanced Real Hammer Action.
The PRP-800 has a Graded Hammer Action.

I was wondering about this. Why Yamaha didn't put GH3 on the newer P-series models.

I'll admit I don't have much experience of grands except my piano teacher's. If grands can vary widely to the extent of having an action lighter than an upright, then yes my original question would be nonsense. Pls enlighten.

If I had to choose one make it would be Steinway simply b/c it is the one most associated with concert pianists. Another one that I like is Fazioli for its bright sound.

Hi,

FYI: The Promega, RP and pRP series instruments feature a Steinway 9' and a Fazioli 10'3" as their main acoustic piano sounds.

Also, the new advanced, enhanced, weighted, graded hammer action feels great and allows for very good dynamic control over the sound. “The wording has changed over time but the RP, GRP and pRP will all share the same keybed”. Sorry for the confusion.

Best Regards,

Dave

I have recently tried an old Kawai CA840 at the shop and this model has the AWA Grand Pro action with real wooden keys which is also used in the latest CA series for Kawai digital pianos. Those keys have similar actions of real acoustic grand with the lever system and are unique compared to all the other brand. To my perception, the feel of the keys is very close to the Kawai Grand RX-2 that they had at the shop as well. Unfortunately, they didn't carry the latest CA9 or the CP205, which I would expect to have better sound.

As to the opinion of feel of the keys and the sound of the piano, I agree with many of you on that they should come together to be a good digital piano.

Mikelangeli,
Here is my digital system. I have shown it to many others on this forum who've asked similar questions to yours. I also have three tier one acoustic grands, and I can attest to the fact that this setup gives me the closest experience to playing those pianos as a digital setup possibly could.



This is a Kawai CP175 with AWA PRO Keyboard, Muse Receptor Module to run the "Akoustik Piano" VST sampled software through the MIDI system on the Kawai. The result is PHENOMENAL!!! Expect to spend $8000.00 to $9000.00 for this kind of a setup.

Voyager,

You are the only one I know of who has compared the GEM GRP-800 to the Yamaha CLP-270 (the RP-800 and the CLP-270 are my current short list items).

It's good to know that the keyboard on the RP/GRP is the same.

I'm curious (pertinent to this topic) how the sound of the RP-800 compared to the CLP-270 with iAFC? Did that stand out in any specific way or is that too subjective to comment on?

Any other comparisons between the two that you care to make would be appreciated.

Thanks.