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#693510 - 02/14/09 07:23 AM Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
megrenk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Has anyone with a HP207 or with a Roland digital piano utilising PHA II Ivory-like action experienced the surface of the white keys to loose flaky bits, similar to dandruff, almost white dust?
... most likely caused by the thumb nails; these hit the keys in an angle, where a hard finger nail could damage the key top.

I am interested in HP207 responses, but assume the PHA II action with ivory keytops is the same across the models.

You may not have noticed the "roughened" keytops, but these can be made clearly visible with a horizonal beam of a flashlight is held parallel to the keyboard shining over the keys.



(Click for bigger picture)

Any feedback appreciated!
Feel free to send my a sticky.

This is not about bashing the product; it is about getting some stats on this issue (if it exists elsewhere).

Thanks and kind regards,
Max
_________________________
"Happiness is a matter of traveling, not a destination to arrive at!"

Music makes me happy: www.max.grenkowitz.net/

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#693511 - 02/14/09 12:15 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
leon2245 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 87
I almost asked about this last week, when I noticed an RD-700GX display unit in G.C. having the same problem. Not the same model, but thye both have the escapement PHA II with ivory feel. I'd also like to hear how many others have seen it.

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#693512 - 02/14/09 12:16 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
WDMcM Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 164
Loc: Ohio
Take a look at THIS thread from another forum. Others are experiencing similar problems. This thread is about the RD700GX pro digital piano but it uses the same keybed as your instrument.

Dave
_________________________
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band

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#693513 - 02/14/09 01:50 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
Tawny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 14
Loc: Vancouver, BC
This really puts a damper on things.. 2 fruitless months of searching that i thought would end soon.

may have to start all over again.

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#693514 - 02/14/09 02:32 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
LesCharles73 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 739
Loc: Denton Texas
Trim your nails, perhaps? That's the simplest solution I can think of. :p
_________________________
Les C Deal





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#693515 - 02/14/09 02:42 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
WDMcM Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/14/05
Posts: 164
Loc: Ohio
As I mentioned in a post on the thread I supplied the link to above, I was told by a Roland customer service rep that the problem is known and was isolated to the first units shipped. Could be that the RD700GX on GC's floor has been there a while. "?" Could be that the HP207 was one from one of those initial shipments to the U.S. "?" I know I have one of the first RD700GX's that was shipped to my area.

Just don't let a few isolated situations sway your opinion of a nice instrument.

Just sayin'
_________________________
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band

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#693516 - 02/14/09 03:24 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
Tawny Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/10/09
Posts: 14
Loc: Vancouver, BC
Yes very true,, thanks WDMcM.

This ongoing journey is just wonderful, even though i still dont have a piano...(just a broken keyboard),

All these discussions and topics help me keep aware of things and the more that i learn and know.
will inevitability (i hope) lead me to finding an instrument that i will be happy with for a long time.

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#693517 - 02/15/09 01:57 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
megrenk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Thank you all so far, and keep it coming![/b]

As I elluded to before: this is not about bashing the product or brand. I am very happy with my HP207 I bought on November 28, 2008 (just to clairify: in Australia).

I am happy with the HP207, the 5 year warranty (need to check on that), and the immediate attention the local Roland sales person gave this case. The latter came visitng, had a look, took some photos with the intent to send these to Roland Japan for further assessment / advice.

Roland has a remarkable quality control program; they are innovators, they try new approaches, and new materials... no matter how good we all want to be, nothing is ever perfect.

I am now aware that the PHAII action has been on the market for 3 years. What I am experiencing could be (but doesn't look like) an isolated problem... or only a specific production date / series is affected.

The reason for the post is to gather stats, even send me your serial numbers (can be sticky / personal e-mail) which I will collect and forward to Roland for their assessment.

On a side note: my finger nails are cut, more than they should be. \:\) I also wash my hands before playing the piano. My hands / fingers do not sweat either when playing.

I would appreciate any response from people who experience the same issue; thanks![/b]

I have also compiled my own web page around this topic Roland HP207: Keytops having Dandruff? [/b], which will also be updated in due course... or as the story unfolds.

Again, thank you kindly for your collaboration so far.

Cheers, Max
_________________________
"Happiness is a matter of traveling, not a destination to arrive at!"

Music makes me happy: www.max.grenkowitz.net/

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#693518 - 02/15/09 04:11 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
leon2245 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 87
The one I saw at G.C. was far worse than that, noticed immediately because very large flakes had come off. But at least Roland's taking care of it for you. And good points about cutting fingernails & clean hands B.T.W. No telling how the one in G.C. had been treated in that regard.

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#693519 - 02/16/09 03:59 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
megrenk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Tawny, same here, I am with WDMcM ... if you found the Roland HP207 to be your preference: GO FOR IT \:\)
I see this problem as an odd occurrence... and there is always warranty that covers these sorts of things.

I can only confirm the good stuff written about the HP207; it is value for money and truely a great instrument.
_________________________
"Happiness is a matter of traveling, not a destination to arrive at!"

Music makes me happy: www.max.grenkowitz.net/

Top
#693520 - 02/17/09 12:38 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
Steve Rose Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Glastonbury UK
I've been having the same problem with my RD700GX from about three months from pruchase. See this link: http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/25346.html
And this one:
http://www.fastonkeys.com/studio/new-roland-rd700gx/comment-page-1/
And this one for the photo's!
http://www.romanviii.co.uk/bp/activefolder.asp?pcat=rolandrd700gx_keywear
Based on what's said here, it seems Roland UK are a bit slow to catch up with the problem! Yes I have seen the same thing on the HP207e. The issue with the dust and flakes is exactly my experience too. Having played keyboards for the best part of 35 years on many, many keyboards, I've not come across this problem before!
I'm just hoping Roland really do have a solution.
Steve

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#693521 - 02/17/09 12:50 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
eJohn Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 129
Loc: San Francisco, CA
I was about to start a thread on exactly this subject, then noticed others have had the same problem.

Yes, as much as I love the action and sound of my HP-207, I do NOT like the fact that the keys in the center of the keyboard have been showing signs of wear (beginning less than a year after purchase). I don't like the feel of their new rougher texture, relative to the less-used keys.

Update: Roland has agreed to cover parts for replacement (I've had my HP-207 ~16 months). For me, the surface texture - so far at least - is a relatively minor issue compared to the other things that set DP brands/models apart. I'll keep you posted.

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#693522 - 02/17/09 01:31 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
The Kawai defects would seem preferable as they show up acutely, early in the ownership cycle facilitating exchange or repair. It will be interesting to see how Roland handles this and if the glowing reports on Roland remain so glowing.

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#693523 - 02/21/09 03:42 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
megrenk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Hmm, so far we have some 10 people complaining about the key top wear...
... be it RD700 or HP207.

Thats' good. Seems to occur hardly ever?!

Otherwise, please keep adding!
_________________________
"Happiness is a matter of traveling, not a destination to arrive at!"

Music makes me happy: www.max.grenkowitz.net/

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#693524 - 02/21/09 05:39 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
 Quote:
Originally posted by megrenk:
Hmm, so far we have some 10 people complaining about the key top wear...
... be it RD700 or HP207.

Thats' good. Seems to occur hardly ever?!

Otherwise, please keep adding! [/b]
LOL. Something tells me they don't teach Statistics down under...

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#693525 - 02/22/09 01:15 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
megrenk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
\:\) theJourney, good one...

Firstly, I do not know the production figures, as in what leaves the factory and is sold.

Secondly, who is reading this forum or other links and actually puts their experience up on the board.

Thirdly, see my comment as a polemic one. Since we have at least ten issues, they are just too many when talking six Sigma.
... also enocuraging others to come forward.

... and I am an Aussie, who used to be a German ;-)
_________________________
"Happiness is a matter of traveling, not a destination to arrive at!"

Music makes me happy: www.max.grenkowitz.net/

Top
#693526 - 02/22/09 01:58 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
Horwinkle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 1011
Sorry to hear the bad new about these Rolands.

I suppose there's now ONE good thing to say about the Williams ... no dandruff has been reported! \:\)

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#693527 - 02/22/09 01:26 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff?
Steve Rose Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Glastonbury UK
The vertical market that the internet provides is utterly brilliant. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to these threads.
Some good news! After some prodding, Roland UK has told me that Roland (Japan) has developed an improved key top surface which should solve the wear problem. It is apparently just going into production now. They have arranged to replace my key assy. with one of these once they are available in the UK. This is all FOC. As a performer it doesn't solve what I'll do when the piano is in the repair facility but that's tomorrow's problem. At least there is a light on the horizon.

It is supprising that at least 16 months (from the feedback I've had from others) have gone by during which time plenty of RD700GXs and HP207s must have been sold and Roland have only now faced the problem. I wonder how many people have been let down by this? After all fake ivory isn't a new invention for piano keys is it?

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#1156660 - 03/03/09 05:11 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: Steve Rose]
BK1 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 12
I'm wondering how widespread this problem is. I am considering an HP-207 if my dealer is willing to negotiate price (I was quoted $3990 and based on these forums, I shouldn't pay a penny more than $3200). However, I am concerned about the wear described in this thread. I am a relatively experienced pianist who enjoys playing music from the likes of Rachmanninof and Liszt, so any DP I buy will take an occasional beating and I need something reasonably durable. My fingernails are short, though, maybe that helps.

Anyone else have any reports -- negative or positive -- of HP-207 keyboard wear? Do the simulated ivory tops on the Yamahas have the same issue? Any piano I may buy will have been sitting in the dealer's warehouse for a while, so if this is a real problem with the HP-207, then a recent change in manufacturing technique from Roland is unlikely to help me.

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#1156827 - 03/03/09 10:12 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: BK1]
Geoffk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
I'm surprised that so many people have had problems with this. My HP-207 get used every day and hasn't shown any noticeable wear in about 6 months. More to the point, the demos units in the big department stores were I shop (e.g. BIC Camera in Ginza) also show no significant wear or flaking despite abuse that's likely to be greater than any home.

Maybe the units in Japan just missed this problem somehow, but I think they're the same everywhere (the US units even have a Japanese language display option--really).

If you like the HP-207, I would go ahead and get one and not worry too much about this issue. I really think it's being overblown here.

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#1244119 - 08/05/09 03:39 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: megrenk]
bobbo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 118
Resurecting old thread here but I had this problem too on RG-3 (baby grand version of the HP207), uses the same keybed as HP207..keys actually started wearing down within the first two weeks of use and thats not even heavy use. However, a quick call to Roland and they replace keybed onsite under warranty with improved keytop material...really good service.

If anyone have doubts about the keys dont worry, it's only a batch that had this problem and it will be sorted out under warranty if you have this problem, HP207 is excellent piano.

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#1251106 - 08/17/09 11:42 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: bobbo]
pokjob Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/20/08
Posts: 2
This is true... my 207 had the "dandruff" issues... got it replaced with 88 new ones on -site in my house -- no charge.... sweet!

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#1266204 - 09/11/09 01:04 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: pokjob]
Manachi Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/09
Posts: 90
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Just wanted to cross link this to a post where I was just discussing this issue (but with the RD-700GX which has the same keybed/ivory touch). I haven't yet bought the unit yet, but was planning on pulling the trigger this weekend. But after stumbling across this, and the other posts describing the same issue, it's making me re-consider - quite disappointing!

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#1289178 - 10/18/09 09:29 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: Manachi]
Andree Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 248
Loc: Sweden
Hi!

Have you heard something from Roland (Japan) since they confirmed they would re-construct the ivory surface?

/Andrée

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#1289205 - 10/18/09 10:37 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: Andree]
Geoffk Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/08
Posts: 757
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
I've had an HP-207 for almost a year and haven't had any trouble at all with this issue. As the posters above said, it seems to have been just a few early models that had problems. For the people who did have problems, Roland has been very good about replacing the keys with new ones. The very heavily used demo model HP-207 in the store I visit is also showing no key wear after an extended time.

I really wouldn't worry about this issue.

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#1289241 - 10/18/09 11:42 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: Geoffk]
tremens, delirium Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 155
have you tried this shampoo?


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#1289343 - 10/18/09 03:31 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: tremens, delirium]
Andree Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 248
Loc: Sweden
Hihi, that was fun actually

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#1375771 - 02/16/10 05:06 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: Andree]
megrenk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Well, I am sorry to say...

I had the keyboard replaced in November 2009. It is now February and after only 31 hours of playing the keyboard the issue has come back. Four keys show a disintegrating surface.

This does not seem to be a faulty batch issue, but rather a generic design issue.

I like Roland as a company, and wish them well for years to come... and success in their battle to combat Yamaha (welcome to the corporate world)...

What I also know from my peers around Brisbane and the Gold Coast, many CLP owners have had their failing keyboards replaced.

Looks to me no matter what you get/buy you may face issues.
Another user posted on my website saying she has the same issues.
_________________________
"Happiness is a matter of traveling, not a destination to arrive at!"

Music makes me happy: www.max.grenkowitz.net/

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#1375778 - 02/16/10 05:09 PM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: megrenk]
Kawai James Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9333
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
megrenk, do you know the date of manufacture of the replacement instrument that you received?

It may have been an older model, manufactured before this issues was resolved.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1376162 - 02/17/10 01:55 AM Re: Roland HP207: Are your keytops having dandruff? [Re: Kawai James]
megrenk Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Sorry, I may not have been clear enough, because "keyboard" is used for two things:

1) the key assembly (incl. black, white keys, mechanics, and electronic forming one unit)
2) a complete musical instrument.

I am referring to the former (1).

I bought the HP207 (a digital piano) in Dec 09
I logged the issue in early 2009
I was asked to wait for a new series of keyboard (as in key assembly) available later in the year.
I waited patiently until later in the year.
A technician came and replaced the keyboard assembly (a great experience: quick and thorough)

As for serial numbers, I only have the serial number of my MH207, which has not changed. I have no serial number information for the keyboard assembly.

I know that the AU sales mgr contacted a techo in Japan into the conversation; I am assuming they would know what the issue is and would ship a revised keyboard assembly and not one from a previous series.

Also, when I said E and B keys I have to look at this closer, as I do not believe this issue is related to particular keys, but rather to all of them... meaning the key surface material has a "design" issue.



Edited by megrenk (02/17/10 03:55 AM)
_________________________
"Happiness is a matter of traveling, not a destination to arrive at!"

Music makes me happy: www.max.grenkowitz.net/

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