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#695506 - 12/11/05 10:24 PM Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Sorry guys...I know the P series topics are all over this board and I really tried to make a decision without posting any more questions!!! However, I wanted to see if I could get some opinions on which piano might be the best option for my advanced skill level?

I've been reading that the P60 is great for the beginner pianist because of it's low price, but I am concerned with the 32 note polyphony. I have been playing classical piano for almost 20 years and am wondering if I will be satisfied with this particular model while playing Rachmaninoff, Mozart, etc? Will 32 versus 64 make playing these pieces unbearable (don't want dropped notes and such)? This is a big concern of mine, but it's in the running because it is the cheapest of the three and has the internal speakers that are absent on the 90.

The P90 is a consideration because of it's mid-range price, I like the fact that you can adjust the weight of the keys, and the 64 polyphony is a bonus as well. But my concern with this one is the lack of internal speakers. I know that not many people are big fans of these speakers anyway, but I think it would be a plus to have the option instead of always needing external speakers.

Finally, the P140 because it seems to be a combination of the two (although it also comes with the highest price). Although this one seems like the surefire winner...it IS the most costly and I'm not sure if this model is worth the extra expense when perhaps the 60 or 90 might be suitable enough for me? I just want to make sure that I buy the one that will match my particular needs, won't be too simplistic where I'll just have to purchase an upgrade a few months into the future, and won't be a waste of money because I assume the most expensive is the best just because it costs the most.

To be honest the extras in voices and such are not much of a concern as long as it sounds like a grand piano for my classical music. But, I have selected these three because I do like the weight of Yamaha's keys, they all sound very good, and they are all within my $1200 budget.

Again, I apologize in advance for adding more fuel to the never-ending P Series fire. Thanks in advance for your time and recommendations ;\)

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#695507 - 12/12/05 01:19 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Blue Sun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Australia
Out of the P60, P90 and P140 my choice would be the P90. More polyphony than the P60 and has more outputs than the P140.

However, the piano which i recommend is the P120. It is cheaper than the P140, has internal speakers and the same outputs as the P90.
The piano samples in the P-series are all beautiful. The P90 has a darker tone and the P120 has a brighter tone (but they are almost identical).

The best thing that you can do is try these pianos out for yourself. To me the P120 is the nicest, but everyone has a different opinion.

Good Luck.
_________________________

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#695508 - 12/12/05 09:34 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Blue...

Thanks for your reply! I really appreciate your comments. I have checked into the P120 as well, but everywhere in my city it's the exact same price as the P140. Both are going for around $1150 or so...even at my local Guitar Center (I guess I'm not one of the lucky ones to find it at $960). I just figured since the 140 is the newer model...I'd go with that one (if I choose the highest end one) since it isn't any more expensive than the older 120.

Honestly I would prefer to go with one of the cheaper ones, but like I stated before, the lack of "some" features is putting me off. I know that you recommended at least the 90...is it because the 32 note polyphony couldn't handle the classical music that I'll be playing if I went with the 60? I guess I'm still not sure if the P60 would or wouldn't be able to play certain composers' music without dropped notes?

I have had the opportunity to play all of them very briefly (the store was about to close) and it was difficult for me to point out the difference in tones for each. It was a bit confusing trying to compare four different pianos to hear which one was better when it's been so long since I even last played a piano, I had 10 minutes before closing, and the P models were spread out in two different rooms! But, at least I got to feel how the keys reacted and I did find that I really liked the Yamahas in comparison to Casios and some other lower priced models ( I went to another music store before GC and found this out).

I will go back for another test run, but I wanted to get some questions answered first hoping that I might knock a couple models out of the running ahead of time! It really is a hard decision though and as always...I would be very thankful for any additional opinions \:\)

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#695509 - 12/12/05 09:56 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
hawk85 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 374
The P120 has more outputs and more wattage than the P140. However, if you don't need the outputs, the P140 sounds a bit better and the action is lighter. I did see a new P140 on eBay for about $1,000 (new with warranty).

Good luck!

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#695510 - 12/12/05 10:21 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
hawk85 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 374
 Quote:
Originally posted by modern:
...The P90 is a consideration because of it's mid-range price, I like the fact that you can adjust the weight of the keys...[/b]
Please note that the touch control does not actually change the weight of the keyboard. However, it controls the way the piano's electronics respond to the velocity of the keys.

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#695511 - 12/12/05 10:50 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Hawk...

Thanks for pointing those things out. I didn't mean to say that the keys would actually get heavier or lighter based on whether you selected soft, medium, or heavy *blush*. I guess the way that I stated it made no sense (oops).

And as you mentioned, since the extra outputs really wouldn't make a difference to me, the P140 seems like it might suit me better.

Although I'm still wondering...is the P60 out because of it's 32 note polyphony???

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#695512 - 12/12/05 12:19 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
"is the P60 out because of it's 32 note polyphony???"

From your description of your repertoire, I would say yes. As you said, the P60 is recommended to *beginners* because of price. It would be a rare beginner who would exceed 32 notes playing at the same time. But with Chopin and Rach, it would happen quite often.

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#695513 - 12/12/05 12:39 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Lodz, Poland
Acctually in theory, however I have played with my sequencer many good sampled pieces of Chopin (e.g. Fantasie Impromptu) and it has never exceeded 32 polyphony even with the full sustain.

Also I have read a review of Yamaha P60 where a pianist tried to exceed the limit by all means, trying to hit sustain and then play chromatic scale up and down, and just hit the keys with whole forearms. Nothing really happened - the cutting algorythms make it really not a problem.

However, I would also go for richer polyphony.

Hey,
M.
_________________________
Mateusz Papiernik
My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maticomp
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)

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#695514 - 12/12/05 02:24 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Bob...

Finally the fate of the P60 (at least for me) has been determined. I had the suspicion that it might not work for me, but I wanted to make sure that the low $749 price tag wasn't clouding my judgement. Thank you!

Mati...

I also appreciate your input. What would make poly "richer"?

Now, I think that I am leaning towards the P140 (or P90). Although, just to add to the mix I've recently discovered the Roland F-100. Seems to be quite comparable to the Yamaha (at least on paper) since they are similar in price, poly, internal speakers, and such. However, I haven't tested a Roland so I'll see if I can even find this particular model around town.

And so it continues...

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#695515 - 12/12/05 02:47 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
I'm getting a P90 for Christmas. Woo hoo! Here are my reasons for picking it:

1. Price.

2. Action very close to grand. I'm going to use it primarily for silent practicing and the action is most important in this regard.

3. Weight. Since there isn't an amplifier and speakers included, the weight is significantly lower. I want to be able to throw it in the car for practicing on trips.

The P60 and the P120/140 are too heavy. If I ever do want to use the keyboard with speakers, I can always buy a powered speaker at that time. However, if the keyboard is the primary instrument, then I can see how built-in speakers could be more important.

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#695516 - 12/12/05 04:30 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Lodz, Poland
By the term "richer" I mean the ability of playing more than 32 notes at a time. P60 has polyphony of 32 tones, and P90 does have 64.

And there is what I always say to people willing to buy an instrument - if you are about to choose from a highly selected range of instruments (in that case, P60/P90/P140) I'd try to play all of them at local music store to decide which one is most suitable for your needs


Regards,
M
_________________________
Mateusz Papiernik
My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maticomp
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)

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#695517 - 12/12/05 09:42 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Blue Sun Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Australia
Rachmaninoff pieces can be quite demanding, so i do recommend the 64 note polyphony.
As you said earlier, the P140 would best suit your needs, and is the newer technology.

However, you should return to the store and let your ears make the decision. I think you'll find them to be all very similar, but the P140 is probably best suited to your needs.

Let us know how it pans out \:\)
_________________________

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#695518 - 12/13/05 10:20 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Bob...

Merry Christmas to you! Enjoy your new P90 \:\)

Mati...

Thanks for the explanation...can you tell that this is my first time looking at digital pianos?

Blue...

I am going to go back to GC this weekend to spend more time on each. Maybe I'll be able to catch someone else testing keyboards and I can convince them to play around on the 90 and 140 for me. It seems that for comparison purposes of the actual sound...it's helpful for me to hear other people playing it too. And since I already know that I like the touch of the Yamahas...sound will be the deciding factor. Based on some comments on this board, I have a feeling that I may not like the Roland as much. I've read that if you like the Yamaha's touch, the Roland will feel too light. But, I'll try and see!

By the way, if I happen to fall in love with the 90's sound and tone over the 140 (gotta prepare myself just in case)...how much are decent external speakers anyway? Would I need an amp in addition to the speakers or could I go with only a powered speaker (like Bob mentioned in his post)? *Sigh* yet another dead giveaway that I'm a newbie \:\) Thanks again.

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#695519 - 12/13/05 10:57 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
The Roland KC-60 is around $250.
Roland powered speakers

Of course, if you're going to be doing your favorite Aunt's wedding, then you might want to move up to a couple of KC-150s and the subwoofer. \:D

Otherwise, just use a spare set of powered computer speakers. If they have a subwoofer, then it'll sound better than the 140 right off the bat.

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#695520 - 12/13/05 05:43 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Bob...

Good to know about the speakers...thank you!

Just thought that I would give you a quick update on today's search. I went to a Steinway gallery to check out the Roland keyboards. I definitely did not like how the cheaper ones played and still preferred the Yamaha when in that price range. I did like the Roland PT3100, but it was $2000. I tried to explain that my budget was closer to $1200, but the salesman wasn't hearing it. He just stated that someone like me who has played the piano for over 20 years will surely be disappointed in anything under $1500. Then he wanted me to listen to a comparison of him playing a Steinway grand against a Yamaha grand so I could hear the difference in tones, but it was completely unfair. The Steinway that he played was a $62,000 piano and the Yamaha was a used one selling for about $14,000. I would have rather judged whether I like the Steinway or Yamaha sound better with two different models that were actually comparable in price. Then he proceeded to state that top notch colleges like Harvard and Yale purchase ONLY Steinways for their facilities where Yamaha has to pay celebrities and schools to get them to use their instruments instead. However, the topper was when the salesman said most people prefer Steinways because of possibly the following. Since Yamahas are made in Japan they have a "higher tone" because that's what the culture of the orient prefers although American culture tends to prefer a "deeper tone". Um, may I mention that my half-asian self was absolutely clueless as to what direction he was trying to go in with that! I hate to say that now I'm having negative feelings AGAINST Roland keyboards after that little trip.

Needless to say, I'm going back to GC and will fairly compare their Roland selection against my favored Yamahas without the unnecessary banter. Since I am part Taiwanese though, I hope my decision won't be persuaded by the tone preference that has been instilled in me by my culture. Or maybe that's why I'm having a hard time deciding! My ASIAN side likes the Yamaha where the AMERICAN side prefers the Roland ;\)

LOL!!

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#695521 - 12/13/05 06:25 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Paul Y Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: Nashua, NH
Modern,

Who ever you talked to at the Steinway Gallery did not know what he was talking about (regarding Steinway pianos purchased by Yale, Harvard, etc). Yamaha does not and never has "paid" anyone to play their pianos! He failed to state that Steinway artists, in order to BECOME a Steinway artist, must purchase a Steinway piano to get on the list. But he left that out.

And, to become a Yamaha artist, you just have to agree to use Yamaha pianos whenever they perform (not PURCHASE a piano).

Finally, major schools and universities all over the country use Yamaha pianos in their music programs! It may not be MIT or Harvard, but schools like USC and UCLA (not to mention Berklee School of Music in Boston) all have Yamaha pianos in their system!

None of this matters when it comes to a digital piano purchase (in the scheme of things). But you need to trust a dealer that he is not feeding you baloney and seems to me Steinway Gallery is doing just that.

Good luck with your purchase!

Paul
_________________________
Retired Industry Professional

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#695522 - 12/13/05 06:32 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
Wow, that was hilareous Modern, thanks for the laugh! You're looking for a <$1,500 digital keyboard and that clown is trying to sell you a >$65K Steinway?!? What a hoot!

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#695523 - 12/13/05 08:25 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Paul...

Your remarks are exactly what I thought of this guy too...baloney! I would have respected him much more if he would have just told me about Steinway's factual history, how Steinway grand pianos are used for the notes and sounds on Roland digital keyboards, and left out the whole Yamaha bashing spree. Oh...and actually listened to what my budget was! Instead he stated that there was no way that I would like any of the Rolands that were priced less than the $2,000 model that he was trying to sell me. Well, guess what...I didn't! So instead of making less commission from a cheaper piano he made nothing at all. Like I stated before, his comments didn't make me think any less of Yamaha...just Steinway and Roland products (at least at a gallery like that where the sales personnel are idiots). What floors me the most is that THEY SELL YAMAHA PIANOS! Why in the world would you sabotage a product or brand that you carry??

Bob...

Sorry about the confusion, but the salesman didn't actually try to sell me the $62,000 piano. He was trying to have me hear the differences between a Steinway and Yamaha grand since the Yamaha digital is mirroring how a Yamaha sounds and the Roland digital is mirroring a Steinway. He just "conveniently" chose the top of the line $62,000 Steinway (which by the way was in it's own room so it had better acoustics, etc) to compare with the poor used $14,000 Yamaha competitor that was right by the front door. Even comparison right? That's like revving up a Mitsubishi and a Ferrari and asking me which engine sounds better? Hmmm, I wonder which one I would prefer? *Disclaimer* I don't have anything against Mitsubishi as a company or it's products \:\) I do hope that the saleman's other BS nonsense was enough to still make you laugh though Bob. It was enough for me...I'm still laughing about it five hours later!

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#695524 - 12/13/05 09:18 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Bob Muir Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/01/03
Posts: 2653
Loc: Lakewood, WA, USA
Oh yeah. \:\)

As I'm sure you know, there are salesmen like that all over. They're not limited to a single brand unfortunately.

I would have loved to have heard a discussion between that guy and someone like Paul who actually knows something about the industry. I'm not a sales guy, but if I were, I would want to know every thing there was to know about the product I was selling.

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#695525 - 12/14/05 02:20 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Mati Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/05
Posts: 1276
Loc: Lodz, Poland
 Quote:
Originally posted by modern:

Thanks for the explanation...can you tell that this is my first time looking at digital pianos?
[/b]
I am also a beginner in all means \:\) And after some research, also here, I think that personal preferences is the most important thing. When you are familiar with what is said here, about which instruments have good touch and which shouldn't be considered, you can make your choice just by sitting, and touching and listening.

I don't mean by play, that you should go and start a virtuosic piece, I can't do that either. Just press some keys, move your hands around a keyboard. You will feel that some of them feel "plastic" and uncomfortable whereas other is just something you love from the beginning. And that's your choice if it sounds good.

But thats just my bet \:\)


M.
_________________________
Mateusz Papiernik
My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maticomp
"One man can make a difference" - Wilton Knight
Kawai CN21 (digital), Henryk Yamayuri Kawai NX-40 (grand)

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#695526 - 12/14/05 08:18 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
modern Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/11/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
Bob...

I would have thoroughly enjoyed someone who is experienced in the industry go head to head with that particular salesman too. Ahhhh, to just kick back and watch the show...that would have been better than going to a movie \:D

Mati...

I agree with you completely. I know what truly matters is how good the keyboard sounds and feels to ME. I just get into all the technical aspects of everything and start getting carried away! Plus it always helps to hear personal experiences and advice from people and pianists knowledgeable in this area. Just by reading posts for only a couple of days...I know that I'm going to save myself the trouble and cost of having to buy another piano in six months because I either bought something too simplified for my skill level or too complicated that I would end up wasting 90% of the keyboard's features.

I'm ever so thankful that I found this forum!!!

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#695527 - 12/18/05 04:33 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
ryantim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 107
Loc: Lucerne, Switzerland
The best piano you can get is the Yamaha P120. Both sound and keyboard feel are far superior to the P140. My local dealer refuses to stock the P140! See if you can find a P120 in a dealership somewhere!
Tim
_________________________
"Ich lebe mein Leben in wachsenden Ringen, die sich über Dinge ziehen, ich werde den letzten vielleicht nicht vollbringen, aber versuchen werde ich ihn." Rainer Maria Rilke
---------------
Yamaha C2 Silent / MIDI
Yamaha P120
Fender American Deluxe FMT Jazz Bass

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#695528 - 12/18/05 04:35 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
ryantim Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 107
Loc: Lucerne, Switzerland
_________________________
"Ich lebe mein Leben in wachsenden Ringen, die sich über Dinge ziehen, ich werde den letzten vielleicht nicht vollbringen, aber versuchen werde ich ihn." Rainer Maria Rilke
---------------
Yamaha C2 Silent / MIDI
Yamaha P120
Fender American Deluxe FMT Jazz Bass

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#695529 - 12/18/05 06:55 PM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
Laurens Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/19/05
Posts: 193
Loc: The Netherland
Actually I would have liked comparing an acoustic grand againt a digital. Not so much because how they sounds but especially how they FEEL. When I was shopping for a digital I tried the Steinway Center but as a absolute beginner I didnt dare to touch the 'real stuf'.

In the end, I just tried all models in another store and ended up buying the P250.

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#695530 - 12/19/05 10:59 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
ocean Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 2
Loc: Germany
How do the P model pianos compare to the CLP or CVP models based on sound? Which CLP models sound the same as the P90 or the P120? Are the GH keyboards the same? What type of amp does the P models need to sound like the clp or cvp models.
_________________________
a none piano player that would like to learn on a digital piano.

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#695531 - 12/19/05 11:03 AM Re: Buying a Yamaha P60, P90, or P140
ocean Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 2
Loc: Germany
refering to my previous post I am talking only about Yamaha products..... of course \:\)
_________________________
a none piano player that would like to learn on a digital piano.

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