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Hi, folks:

this may not be a fair question to ask when you all can't see the actual piano, but I'm going to ask anyway!

I have a friend who is seriously considering a 1922 Seiler 5'8" grand that has been rebuilt.

ASSUMING the rebuild was complete done well (I'm not sure if this is the case), what is a fair price? They are asking $24K.

I've already passed on the advice to get their own tech to take a look at this piano but I am clueless as to its actual value-- even a ballpark price. $24K seems high to me, but perhaps not.

Again, let's assume that all is right with this piano, and it's received a solid bill of health from the tech.

Thanks tons for any advice/opinions...

Nina

PS: I've played the piano myself and thought it sounded wonderful, nothing noticeably horrible about it, good touch, good responsiveness, etc. FYI

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: Nina ]

Any ideas, folks? PLEEEEEZ!!

Thx
Nina

A rebuilder would know for sure. But please consider this: for just about the same money, one can get a brand new 6'3" Seiler (ebony, plain wrap).

I can't see paying more than $18k for it, but that's a stab in the dark. The actual market price may in fact be lower. Seiler is not a big name in the U.S.

penny

The price sounds very high unless it is a highly attractive art case piano or had an excellent recent restoration. That's just an opinion.

Why not look at pianomart.com for other higher quality pianos offered by dealers. The Piano Book will list names of similar quality instruments. I would exclude private sellers since they often have little idea of what the market will pay. There are also numerous dealer sites on the web where you can check out prices.

Finally, is this piano more appealing than say a $18-20,000 (negotiated price, not list) new piano? Assuming the Seiler is in very good shape, the $6-4,000 difference allows for discernible usage, unseen wear, dealer profit and lack of support. I am probably undervaluing the difference because I like old pianos.

I's difficult to say what this piano is "worth" because in a situation like this value has more to do with a buyer's perception of value than the actual quality of the piano, and in most cases the buyer's perception is based primarily on a recognized brand name which Seiler is not. At least in the Los Angeles market where I work when dealing with rebuilt pianos in the over $20K market for most potential buyers perceived value is synonymous with Steinway and that's it, end of story, and don't bother me with pianos by any other maker. The fact that you can get a pretty good rebuilt Steinway in the $25K range should make a rebuilt Seiler no matter how good it is a dead issue at $24K.

Personally as a rebuilder I would be interested in buying a vintage Seiler for rebuilding and resale only if I could pick it up for about $2500, rebuild it, and offer it for sale for a maximum of perhaps $15,000. Any more than that and I'm going to be sitting on unsaleable merchandise. The other thing about this is the only way I'm going to sell it is if someone comes into the shop to look at something else or comes in just looking in general, sees it, and likes it. If I advertise a beautiful rebuilt Seiler that looks and sounds fantastic the phone isn't going to ring. I may as well have a Kimball.

Niles Duncan
Piano rebuilder, Pasadena, CA
www.pianosource.com

Thanks everyone for your responses. Penny, I had no idea that a new Seiler grand was that, er, cheap. (I can't believe I just wrote that sentence!)

It makes total sense to me that the price of the Seiler would be impacted by name recognition. I'll show my friend these responses and let him decide. It would be great to see/play a new Seiler for comparison's sake. Unfortunately, I doubt there are more than a handful of Seilers, new or used, in the entire Phoenix area.

Thanks again
Nina

6' seiler grands are NOT available ANYWHERE for under $ 25.000.

Including Kitzingen, Germany.

IF they are....state exact location, names and identity numbers of all suspiciously acting salespeople.....shall investigate.

Piano Police.

Norbert Marten
www.heritagepianos.com

Well, when I was looking a year ago, I was offered $30k for the Westminster model (hope I'm remembering the name correctly. It's the one with mahogany and square panel inlays -- it's considered an art case). I was offered $28K for a regulary mahogany (and with saleman's commission included). So I don't think it's a big jump to say around $24K for a plain-wrap ebony (OK, maybe $25k or $26K, but what's $2,000 among friends?!).

I agree that in this price range, there are many worthy candidates in the bigger 6'3" size. In fact, one could save a couple thousand. But I know what it's like to have a tone in your head. Niles still doesn't believe me how a 1920-ish Grotrian (5'10" I think it was) could sound as haunting as it did. I would have NEVER bought anything from that dealer. But, oh, it sounded so, SO GOOD!

penny