Please point me to the appropriate thread if there is one already.

My 10 year old daughter started composing piano music last year and has been prolific, winning awards and so forth. In order to get her music onto a neat typed page, I bought a used 44 key keyboard, midi cables, and some cheap software. Now, since she is so happy composing, moving into ensemble music, and doing so well, I would like to upgrade to a full keyboard and better software. Whatever we buy must be portable, even if it's big, since it will come with us twice a year for about a month each time.

We want:

- a full sized, portable keyboard with good instrumental sounds
- hard case
- much better software

We do not want a stand-alone digital console to take the place of an acoustic piano because we already have an Estonia grand in the music room which everyone uses for lessons and so forth. The keyboard will reside in the office with the computer.

Currently we have Noteworthy Composer software which I find very difficult to use and edit. I would like to get software that can "hear" both hands at once, and enter in what is played more accurately so that the editting requirements aren't so great.

Would someone please advise me as to the appropriate type of digital keyboard, and even more importabtly, a better software. Thanks!

Don't know what your budget is, but a fancy synth like the Yamaha S90es sounds pretty cool (though it has no built-in speakers, I think). You want something with a lot of sounds, not just piano.

For software you can look at Finale and Sibelius (both notation software), or maybe Cubase (sequencing program).

There are also software-based orchestras like Garritan Personal Orchestra, that give you the sounds of a complete orchestra on the computer.

I don't have any direct experience with these products, but this should get your search started.

Depending on budget and how in depth you want to go, you may want to look into keyboard workstations or arrangers, here's a couple links to get you started.

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/motifes/index.html

http://www.rolandus.com/products/subcategories.aspx?ParentId=17

Keep in mind this goes way beyond digital pianos and have quite a learning curve to tap into their power as workstations.

Can you tell me what a keyboard workstation or arranger is?

I'll tell you what she does...she composes in her head, plays around on the real piano downstairs and then it's locked in her brain for good. Later, she goes up to the office and uses the keyboard there as an input device. She doesn't create on the keyboard. Then I edit it with her standing over my shoulder, so that it ends up being what she wanted it to be. When it's all done, it matches what is in her head. Then we print for contests and performances.

So we need a good input device (keyboard) and good software. We don't have to replace or even mimic an acoustic piano at all since we love our Estonia and that's what is mostly used on a daily basis. We don't even need weighted keys or realistic sounding sounds for that matter.

I am unfamiliar with what is on the market that suits these needs. It would be great if anyone knows of a matrix or spreadsheet that lists products down the left side and features across the top. If I could just see what products do what functions, I could probably narrow it down. I don't want to over-buy features that we don't need, but I want to improve on what we currently have.

Based on what you say you need, I think any of these would fulfill your needs excellently. I highly recommend any one of these.




http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/M...ller?sku=703607





http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Keystation-Pro-88-MIDI-Controller?sku=709203





http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/CME-VX8-Intelligent-Keyboard?sku=702497

darb,
She sounds very talented.
In a nutshell, keyboard workstations/arrangers are keyboards with composing in the electronic realm in mind.
If composing only piano, a workstation may not be the best fit, but if your daughter is electronically inclined, she would probably grow into one very nicely.

Hi darb,

perhaps I can help out here since my son composes music for films, games, ensembles and even orchestras.

First the software. What you are looking for is a scoring application. We use Finale but there is also its main competition called Sibalious. Both are equally good. The also both come with reasonably good orchestral sample libraries so they can render semi-pro sounding audio files (WAV). There are much better sample libraries (we use EWQL Gold) but these can cost several thousand dollars.

As for an imput device, any midi keyboard will do since you are not actually recording the audio of the instrument but just need to capture the notes on/off events in the scoring applicattion. You do not need a synth, workstation, or arranger for this. Your current keyboard is likely good enough but you will need an interface in your cumputer that has a midi port. Almost all semi-pro to pro audio cards also include midi in/out.

Just to be clear, an arranger is not a composers keyboard but is actually a performer's board (think one-man-band). A workstation is a VERY advanced compositional tool that includes extensive sound edition/shaping capabilities, sequencing, and sampling but this isn't appropriate for the workflow you've described.

Hope this helps,

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more details.

Rodney

I do have NoteWorthy, it's a great software not expensive, there is better software like Finale and Sibelius but they cost a lot more.

If you're looking for a software that will translate what your daughter is playing into a nice score sheet, you're out of luck. She will need to do some editing to have something nice.

Serge

Great information here! My current keyboard is 40 or so keys, so we want a full keyboard. I do have it working with midi cables and the Noteworthy Composer software on my computer. It sounds like I can just get an 88-key midi keyboard, use my existing midi cables, and get Finale or Sibalious software. My computer should support those software packages fine becauses it's not that old. On the audio card, do I need to buy a better audio card or anything like that in order to take advantage of the better sounds she will probably get with a new keyboard? She doesn't need the sounds for performance, but it helps to have at least decent sounds when compising ensemble music so you can tell if it's coming out how you wanted.

If there is anything else I need to buy that I'm not thinking of, please let me know. Thanks!

I would reccomend that you also ask here http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/18/page/1
this is geared towards the workstation synth end of the market.

As I see it there are two ways you could go you could look at buying a workstation as has been mentioned above these alow you to sequence, Sound edit, sample etc the more you spend the more you get but I have just bought a juno-g which is lightweight, portable and comes with sonar le computer daw (digital audio workstation). I then have 128 note poly, 16 track sequencer with mixdown, Onboard sampler, 4 audio tracks (ie mic, or plug in any instrument your grand piano etc or voice and hit record) you can then use this in any sequnce the list goes on then there are the more expensive flagships that do more and then there is the mighty korg oasis.

Or you could get a cheap 61 or 76 note controller and say cubase and a nice collection of softsynths and plugins (there are also plenty of free soundfonts and plugins available. Look up fazioli and the net and then plug in you synth and play and sequence away. You thewn have a choice of conroller from master board that has no internal sounds through to a hom keyboard say the new yamaha e500.

there is also the fact that most workstations synths and master boards have no internal s peakers so you will need powered monitors amp or pc speakers to make sound i use logitec's x230.To me I prefer to work from a workstation as when I get and idea I can just hit record not have to start up the daw load all the samples etc but its horses for courses.

If you prefer the home arranger (includes its own backing band etc they mostly now have the power of workstations look up korg pa50, 80 roland e-60 e-80 yamaha psr 3000, tyros, s-500, 900 but these are another subject.

It really comes down to cost and how tech savvy you are so as not to be overwhelmed by what is out there and what budget you have but I would look at 61 keys as a minimum and remember that the bughet synthe ie mm6, mo juno-g pa50 etc either have a nasty keybed or like the juno slightly smaller keys than standard.

tris

darb posted I use Sibelius, but have never been able to get it to accept two-hands input without editing. The problem is that I sometimes play high with the left hand. Sib can recognize note input, but can't distinguish between the left and right hands.

In practice, I've found that it's easier by far to just use Sib's manual note input capability. Once you get used to it, it goes pretty quickly.

If your daughter doesn't play high with her left hand, you can set a split point in Sib and it should accept the notes as played.

darb asked, Yes. I use E-Mu's 1212M. It has outstanding audio quality and good ASIO drivers - the ones used for recording - but its WDM drivers are not as good. M-Audio's Audiophile 2496 doesn't have as good a dynamic range, but in the past I've found that company's drivers to be stable.