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#701519 - 11/13/08 12:34 PM Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
Does anyone have any ideas about a module or computer program that could be used in conjunction with my new CP300 for rhythm backing purposes (for old standards)? I have a Tyros arranger keyboard which I could use, I suppose but I was hoping to find something simpler and more convenient.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Bob

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#701520 - 11/13/08 08:12 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
Michiyo-Fir Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 172
What do you mean rhythm backing purposes? Like a metronome?
There's a clicker button on the cP300...

Sorry if I'm not much help, I'm not too sure what you're trying to ask.
_________________________
Bosendorfer Imperial, Yamaha U3, Yamaha P140, Yamaha CP300

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#701521 - 11/14/08 12:12 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco

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#701522 - 11/14/08 12:29 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
I guess I'm looking for a scaled down, simplified, modular version of an arranger keyboard. I have no idea if such a thing even exists.

Michiyo-Fir
I like to play standards from the 30's and 40's...sometimes it's nice to have a rhythm section in the background....no, not a metronome.

FogVilleLad
I'm tired of the style thingees as in the Tyros (which I have...it's a little too much). I think with BIAB you need to enter the chords and you play along with a style. I understand that, even with a bass accomp, one would need to enter the chords. I thought just a small amount of drums would be nice without chord considerations. For one thing I don't understand chords and for another it is time consuming to enter them.

I'm probably expecting the impossible.

Bob

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#701523 - 11/14/08 02:30 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
Rodney Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 735
Loc: Caledon ON, Canada
Have you considered a drum machine? I have a Boss DR-770 that I use to provide some rhythms for Both keyboard and guitar practice. There are several software and hardware drum machines available.

Rodney

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#701524 - 11/14/08 02:34 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4680
Loc: San Francisco
dettch,[/b] understood and you're right about how B-i-a-B works. That's why I've never bought it - tho some of their optional rhythm tracks packages could be worth studying, if budget is there.

Looks like Rodney's drum machine suggestion is worth pursuing.

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#701525 - 11/15/08 12:13 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
I appreciate the input from you all!!
Thanks
Bob

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#701526 - 11/15/08 08:06 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
Rented Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 174
Loc: Spain
If you just want some rhythm backing, I would suggest you have a look at Jamstix from http://rayzoon.com/. It's quite a unique piece of software. It takes a little while to understand, but it produces very realistic drumming which can react to the dynamics of your playing. You can go from fully automatic to editing each drum hit. It not only models musical styles but individual drummers as well.

Maybe an online review can explain it better:
http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_rayzoon_technologies/

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#701527 - 11/16/08 11:40 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
Rented
Sounds very interesting....but it is computer based, correct?
I was hoping I could find something that would midi-in (?) to my CP300 and would be integrated into the keyboard. Is such a set-up possible with Jamstix?

I realize I don't know what I'm talking about so I hope this makes sense.

Bob

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#701528 - 11/16/08 04:14 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
Rented Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 174
Loc: Spain
So you would like something that would play the drum samples which are onboard the CP300?

Jamstix is a VST instruments, so it needs a VST host. It can certainly output the generated drums in midi, but the software needs to run somewhere.

It's the same kind of thing as BIAB, something that generates the midi messages for your sound module (which can be the CP300, of course). Only Jamstix is more "intelligent" than BIAB, and far more musical, IMO. Otherwise, the technical limitations would be the same as if you used BIAB.

A laptop is the minimum you would need, I think.

Maybe a drum machine (such as the DR-770) is what you really want. I find they produce mechanical sounding drums, but it is certainly much less hassle setting it all up.

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#701529 - 11/17/08 10:02 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
Rented
Thanks for the info. I'll check them out.

Bob

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#701530 - 12/01/08 01:35 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
Dettch,

Wait, don't give up! The question your asking is exactly the same question I have... right down to the fact that I'm using a CP300.

I'm a computer guy, but I don't want to have to have my computer up and running near my piano. I just want a hardware box that sits on top of my CP300 where I can choose "latin jazz waltz".

I love my CP300, but miss those cheesy drum and rhythms found on Casios.

I think the Boss DR-670 will do the trick, but I'm not interested in programming my own rhythm tracks... I just want to scroll through a list of styles and hit "play/stop".

The best machine would connect via MIDI, know what I'm playing and would play along with me with dedicated buttons for "intro / fill / ending". Determining what chords I'm playing and having matching tones is probably asking for too much, eh?

-Pete

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#701531 - 12/02/08 09:38 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
jjtpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 213
Loc: Jamestown, NC
Get a Yamaha Motif. I have the Motif-ES6 that I can midi into the inputs of the CP-300. I don't use it like you want to, but you can. It'll do everything from keeping simple time to playing more sophisticated backgrounds, bass lines, horns etc.
_________________________
Live Music Is Best

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#701532 - 12/02/08 01:09 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
Hi Pete
Yes, I think we are looking for exactly the same thing. I have a Tyros back home in Idaho but don't want to tote it along with me in winter. What we are both looking for, it seems, is a rhythm module to set on top of our CP300.

Hope there is something out there. I do have an old Yamaha PSR 330 with me. It has midi in and out and might do the trick and has styles plus intro etc. Can anyone advise.

Pete, if that would work, I'll be you could find one of them on EBAY or Craigs List for $25.

Bob

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#701533 - 12/02/08 04:27 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
So, I looked up the Motif-ES6 and not only is it very expensive, it's another keyboard. I think it might be overkill. Other options?

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#701534 - 12/02/08 05:50 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
Pete
The PSR 330 that I mentioned above is a small keyboard...there are many similar ones. It is larger than a rhythm module would be but it should serve a similar purpose.

Steven Hazel, a regular forum contributor, has some pictures that show his set-up with more than one keyboard.

I checked EBay and there are many older models of small keyboards that would have rhythm and style functions and they are very cheap.

Might work for you.

Bob

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#701535 - 12/03/08 05:57 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
Bob,
Thanks! I'll enjoy the search process!
Yesterday I downloaded the demo of "OneManBand"... software that runs on your PC.

It does what I'm looking for, but lacks a nice, streamlined interface. It was nice to hear drums and rhythms coming from my CP300's speakers though! And, it has a nice "full keyboard chord detection" feature.

I'm going to try out "BandInABox"... using a cordless computer keyboard on top of my cp300 might be acceptable since all the fun buttons have single computer keyboard keystroke shortcuts.

-Pete

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#701536 - 12/03/08 06:38 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
Follow-up: I just tried the Band in a Box demo and the RealBand demo. They are massive in their scope and far too cumbersome to meet my simple needs of having a drum kit with some "intro/fill/ending" buttons. I'll keep looking...

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#701537 - 12/03/08 09:27 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
More follow-ups...
I'm downloading trial versions of lots of software. I haven't found anything that I like yet. (At least nothing that beat the dedicated buttons you find on little midi controlled keyboards.)

I'm tempted to buy a cheap Casio with midi capabilities and see if that would work! Would it?

-Pete

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#701538 - 12/03/08 09:28 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
More follow-ups...
I'm downloading trial versions of lots of software. I haven't found anything that I like yet. (At least nothing that beat the dedicated buttons you find on little midi controlled keyboards.)

I'm tempted to buy a cheap Casio with midi capabilities and see if that would work! Would it?

-Pete

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#701539 - 12/03/08 12:08 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
I think the cheap Casio would work. Let me know what you do and HOW you do it....please.

I'm going to try my Yamaha PSR 330 soon but I'm not sure if I will be able to figure out how to manage the midi settings.....I'm terrible at following directions and figuring out the midi stuff.

Will keep you informed.

Bob

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#701540 - 12/05/08 05:59 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
I just tried "live-styler" and M.A.A.S.
Live-Styler is not bad, but costs almost $50 and I'm not impressed enough with it to pay that.
M.A.A.S is free, but seems to have very spotty chord recognition.

Both are annoying at figuring out how to set up the various MIDI inputs and outputs, channels, etc. There seems to be a large amount of assumptions made about the experience level of the user. (For example, there are six sliders labeled R1 through R6, but no description of what those are for.

On a different line, I tried out a Boss DR-3 drum machine yesterday and thought, "Ok, if I'm just looking for basic drums, this is fine." It sits easily on your keyboard and your fingers can easily hit the "intro/fill/end" buttons. Much easier than having a laptop on your keyboard.

Still looking... still searching for advice and options.

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#701541 - 12/09/08 11:47 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
dettch Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 55
Loc: Idaho
VTPete

Anything new to report? Bump bump

Bob

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#701542 - 12/09/08 01:32 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
Music Major Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/04/06
Posts: 301
Loc: Tampa, FL
You know, I'm thinking if you wanted to revisit the Motif idea. You can get a Motif as a Rack-mount device. It is all the sounds, but no keyboard. Connects up just the same and with a little manual reading you can probably trigger sounds with just a hit of one of your piano keys.
_________________________
Kevin


Yamaha S90 --------------- SS-69 Grand
The most important thing in music is what is not in the notes.

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#701543 - 12/09/08 09:40 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
VTPete Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 19
Loc: Vermont, USA
Bob,
Nope...
I retried "band in a box" and couldn't figure out how to get it to do it's thing "live" without typing in chords.

I've been searching for drum machines that have the nice "intro a/fill b/fill c/fill ending" buttons and only the Boss DR-3 has them from what I can tell. Annoying because the Boss DR-3 has "only" 100 rhythms... mostly 4/4 rock (jezzz.)

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#701544 - 12/12/08 01:13 AM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
ginger_vitys Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 58
Loc: Nashville TN
Not a relevant answer, but it's ironic that this Tyros "workstation" thing has such an underwhelming name. A Tyro is a dabbler, beginner, novice. Bad Jap translation, I guess.
_________________________
If you think education's expensive, try ignorance.

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#701545 - 12/14/08 01:02 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
Stephen Hazel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 734
Loc: Seattle-ish, WA
Wow! I got referenced \:D

My sequencer won't do that arranger stuff that auto-plays background chords to match your music, etc.
It will play any midi file at the same time as your live playback.
So as long as you can find a midi file on the web somewhere (they're EVERYwhere), that's got a background you want, you should be fine.

I also have a set of drum patterns in the install of my app.

I'm also currently working on "practice mode" where you mark left and right hand piano tracks, it displays them live, hilites the notes you're playing (on screen) as red or green and waits for you to hit each "note on" before continuing.

I'm not all the way done with developing this confangled thing, but getting there.

My rig is here:
http://shazware.com/piano/rig.html

Some midi info is here:
http://shazware.com/midi

And my sequencer is here:
http://shazware.com/ditty

(It's free so TECHnically i don't think this is spam??)

I took this thing into my piano lesson to show my teacher last week.
Took me almost the full 30 mins to get the dang usb yamaha midi driver installed (4+ reboots take a while when you let your kids install junk on your laptop).

She was pretty impressed with it.
But, she called it cheating...
We'll be chatting about what EXACTLY constitutes cheating next week... \:D

Ideally, all you should need is a laptop, usb cable, usb midi driver install and ditty installed.

I'd kill for some user feedback, too \:\/
(Well, not kill, be happy, you know...)

...Steve
_________________________
...Steve
http://PianoCheetah.com - writing my own piano practice program ...yeah, I'm crazy like that

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#701546 - 12/14/08 02:11 PM Re: Rhythm device to use with new CP300?
Rodney Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 735
Loc: Caledon ON, Canada
Here's another thought. Take a look at the Yamaha QY100.

Rodney

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