I have a question. I'm a laic in the midi subject, I mean I know that it's a way to communicate which key was pressed, how strong, how long etc. You plug your instrument to the computer and use some sound bank form it to create sound. But I never tried it.

I suppose when you have Garritan Steinway/Ivory etc. and some studio monitors in your place, it's great to have a fun with great sound; or if you like to arrange some piece by yourself, you record few parts of song with MIDI and play it simultaneously with different sounds, for example bass, piano, guitar and strings.

But what with onstage use? If you have, for example, Roland 700GX, it isn't enough? I mean the sounds are to weak and you have to use laptop with midi connector and some sound bank?

Second option: or maybe only those use midi, who prefer to buy some cheaper instrument with good keyboard and are interested in it's action, but wants to get good sounds from outside? I think it is much cheaper, but is it worth fighting with laptop and cables on the stage? Is quality of sound more realistic than when you use only sound from instrument?

If you use three synthesizers, it's pretty clear, that you need midi. But what with standard pianist, solo or with the band: do we need it?

I used to use a midi sound module in live performance to get a wider variety of sounds.

I doesn't require a computer, just a midi cable and extra audio connection to the amp.

ok, so there is another advatage: biger variety of sound.

Sound module: isn't expensive solution? Does it have enough quality and quantity of on-board sounds?

"Sound module: isn't expensive solution? Does it have enough quality and quantity of on-board sounds?"

Well, depends on which sound module you get. Many high-end workstations also come as a rack configuration. Example: Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom, Korg Triton, and Kurzweil K2500XS all have a rack version available in which there are hundreds of sounds that are of the same quality as the keyboard versions. These may not count as "sound modules" as they also carry out all the basic functions as their keyboard counterparts, but they do connect to an external keyboard which then controls it.

As for dedicated sound modules; again, it depends on which one you buy. Usually you can expect very acceptable and plentiful sounds out of them.

You asked if it's an expensive solution. I would say less expensive than a laptop. Rack synthesizers can usually run pretty close to their keyboard versions as far as price goes, but sound modules can be significantly cheaper.

I would much rather have a sound module or rack synth on stage as opposed to a laptop.

Depends. I use a Yamaha P90 to control a Korg Trinity. I do this for a variety of reasons. The sounds of the P90 aren't as good as the Trinity's, particularly the strings/orchestra. I don't use the Trinity alone because it has an inferior keyboard and only 61 keys, although it can reproduce all 88 notes if given a midi signal. It also has a huge variety of pre-programmed sounds (programs) as well as having the ability to tailor an existing one or create your own new ones.

All I can say about midi and a laptop is TRY IT. I've been a computer geek since 10 years old and I'm 35 now. I program for a very large software company in redmond. My biggest hobby for the last year is buying music gadgets from ebay almost every week, and now I believe that after you try midi and having your laptop produce music, there is a good chance you'll be very frusterated. I have a 4gb laptop, a $150 firewire audio interface, and tried various programs. After that, I'm drooling over LesCharles73's list "Example: Yamaha Motif, Roland Fantom, Korg Triton, and Kurzweil K2500XS all have a rack version available"

If you like to endlessly fiddle with geeky stuff, which I do too, then buy stuff for your laptop and give it a try. There ARE people that swear by the laptop solution and DO make music with it. But I'd guess for over 95% of the music/computer geeks out there, they would be much happier and creative with a rack synth and leave the laptop at home. I also doubt that most people could tell the sound quality difference. If you try for a laptop setup, tweaking it for quality will be the last thing on your mind because you'll be very busy just trying to get it going at all, and likely once you do get it going, you'll then want to change programs or compenents and you'll be back to computing rather than making music again. Not that computing is a bad thing. As long as you're having fun.

A laptop would be great for studio use, but I could see it being too fragile for stage use. I could also see one freezing up halfway through a set.

I thought exactly the same. Altough laptop would be very elastic and you can use it for non-music purposes too. I suppose it's a very powerful tool, but I don't want to spend time on 'computing', I'd rather prefer practicing and performing - it require enough time. I understand, that RayMetz100 have real passion for doing it, and I would probably too, but for this reason I don't want to enter in this subject
For the same reason I don't enter in the synthesizers world - it's time-consuming. I want to choose from big variety of high-quality sounds - eventually adjust it a bit - and just use it. Gryphon's solution looks reasonable - good keyboard action plus good sounds.

Another question appears: are sound modules piano-players dedicated? [/b]Do I buy 400 drum sets and a lots of whistles among piano sounds? Or maybe I pay mainly for sound processor, and main idea is to buy good module and then add some expansion board?

I'm interested mainly in piano sounds: priority is high-quality grand piano (every key sampled, at least 3 layers) and e.piano (f.ex. like in Clavia's: Electric Pianos (Mk I, II, V), Wurlitzer A200, Clavinet D6, CP-80 Electric Grand), some organs (Hammond B3, Leslie and so on), plus variety of "synth's" and pads, basses, maybe some strings.

I have very little experience with sound modules, but from what I gather, a sound module is a very basic keyboard without keys. Meaning, it comes with several on board sounds (maybe hundreds, I'm not sure) and you MIDI it through your keyboard. You use the controls on the sound module to change presets. Also, I believe the sound module has audio out's which connect to your amplification, meaning the keyboard is merely a controller. It makes no sound at all. The one time I played a DP connected to a sound module they were using it for a trumpet patch and the keyboard volume was turned all the way down. The volume was controlled on the module. If you turned the keyboard volume up, you would hear whatever sound the keyboard was set to (through the piano's internal speakers - this was a P60).

Gryphon's Korg Trinity is basically acting as a sound module with keys.

Oh also I would not say sound modules are piano-player dedicated. They should have a broad range of sounds. You are probably thinking of a Piano Module, which would be oriented towards a piano player.

I think you're right, I mean rather piano modules - I won't use computer, so I'm interested only in sounds I can use on the stage, with keyboard. It looks like a good alternative, cause I can choose a keyboard and sound processor separately, and change one of them any moment I want.

OK, I just read about sound modules a lot, even have a few I will think about (like Korg TR-Rack,
Yamaha Motif ES Rack), but I'm not sure are they comfortable in make settings and voice choices: on stage piano I have big buttons, and on this racks they are rather small. So two another questions:

- can I use any other thing with bigger buttons and comfortable knobs to control sound module? or can I control it using some controllers on my stage piano/midi controller, or only "keyboard signal" is possible via midi?
- are there any portable stands avaible only for one module? for example I can put it on my instrument, but I don't want to see it falling down any cases?

Sounds like you should look into either sound modules or rack synths. I posted this in a different thread, but you may want to look into the Yamaha Motif rack and Roland Fantom rack. Korg Triton and Kurzweil K2500 racks are the other two big players, but they have been discontinued so you would have to find one used. Ebay is a good resource for that. Kurzweil's current workstation is the K2600 but I don't believe it comes in a rack configuration. K2500 is closely related to the K2600 and is thought of as a very good synth. Kurzweil racks often go for around $500-$700 used.

Wow, those posts were pretty simultaneous! Your questions about "rack synth navigation" are exactly what has kept me from getting one. I'm not a good enough player to reach over and hit a small, dimly-lit button while concentrating on music, counting beats, etc. I have a hard enough time when it's right there in front of me! There may be a foot switch available, but it depends on the synth. Also, with this foot switch/pedal, you would probably only be able to toggle between the next or last voice. (If you have 10 presets that you want Quick Access on, it would be difficult or impossible to jump from preset 2 to say, preset 8). Kurzweil has a numerical keypad where you program your favorites (called Quick Access Banks) and it shows the preset's name on the display and also in the right placement in relation to your other instruments. Still though, it is pretty hard hitting the right button at the right time, and with enough force to make sure you don't embarrass yourself with some goofy instrument at a very inappropriate time! :-)
Really, I have no answer for you on this one. It's one of those things I have been wishing I could find a solution to as well.

I've never really thought about what I would put a rack synth on or in for on stage use. If you're good with steel it would be pretty simple to fabricate yourself a 19" wide rack with a slight backwards tilt to it. You could put it at the exact height to make it as easy as possible to control the synth. Other than that I really am not aware of anything off the shelf that you could buy... Doesn't mean it doesn't exist though!

Hope this helps

Les

Here is an idea that depends on what your keyboard can do.

My Yamaha P-100 has 10 large buttons that select its own 10 voices. But each of those buttons can be programmed to send any program change number through midi out.

I used them to select voices in the sound module, and then momentarily turn midi off to select the voice I wanted the P-100 to play.

I also do the same as "jw7480"

I have my Yamaha S90 setup to talk to an outboard sound module. I use the master mode and call up program changes and almost any other setting, I.E. initial volume, etc. from the S90 Bank select buttons (or the spin selector). It works great and I can program a regular name to show up on the S90's screen when it's selected. It took a little bit of head scratching to get everything just right, but it works like a charm!

Thanks guys, looks there is a hope.
I wonder what if I buy some cheaper instrument with good keyboard for that purpose - like yamaha p-85 - to control my module - will it have such a possibilities. S90 is rather advanced instrument, and if I pay for good sound module, I'd rather want to choose some medium-priced digital, not top level one
I see I have to make my choice carefully, to make it work together well.