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#704760 - 02/15/02 01:27 PM Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
A 2nd Gold medal is finally awarded to the flawless Canadian couple skaters. I couldn't be more thrilled to hear that!

I apologize for bringing this non-music news here. I don't know where else to put it...

AndrewG

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#704761 - 02/15/02 04:06 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
ChemicalGrl Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/03/01
Posts: 643
Loc: Durham, North Carolina
I think that is a correct decision. I also heard the ISU (I think that's what they are, right?) had suspended the French judge. Really, what they need to do is examine their judging system to ensure something like this never happens again. It makes the sport look very bad indeed.
_________________________
Regards,
Lyn F.

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#704762 - 02/16/02 10:10 AM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
There's been some criticism of the "North American" media coming from Europe and Russia. And even though I can bash the media with the best of them (and I'm a member!), the media are the ones who put the pressure on. I don't believe the ISU would've intensely investigated the situation and found the evidence that proved the fix was on if it were not for the media. I also read a discouraging article in the LA Times (which has been milking the story for all its worth despite casting a condescending eye on the rest of the media) about every other bad call in sports and this was just another one of them. No, this wasn't a bad call. This was a predetermined decision. And that DID require justice. Congratulations to the Canadians!

penny

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#704763 - 02/18/02 02:16 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
Samejame Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 808
Loc: NL, Canada
Cool! A non-piano thread!

Yes the Canadians deserve the gold, but what is taken away that can't be returned is the moment. The judging debacle tarnished the moment for them and the Russian pair who were equally deserving of, if not the gold, then at least the affirmation that they lost it on the ice, not in the media! But all in all, neither the Canadians nor the Russians were the big losers.

No, the big loser in all this is the sport. It will be tarnished by future competitors, the media and the public forevermore questioning judges marks. It is unfortunate, but the judges should not complain, this is a mess of their making, for allowing country associations to lobby away their integrity.

Another big loser in this whole mess is the other athletes in the first week of competition. The scandal has taken away their spotlight. For instance, everyone knows the results of the pairs figure scating, but can you tell me who won the men's luge? No? My point exactly.

Now, men's hockey - the passion of Canada - will not be won by Canada. The men's team which is a who's who of NHL millionaires, lacks the confidence it will take to win. The US and the Swedes look good, and I think they will be the Gold Medal match, with the Chechs in there as well. Women's hockey will be USA Canada for Gold, possibly Finland for bronze. Our (Canada's) men's and women's curlers will win Gold, but after that, I'm afraid the medal bin will be pretty dry for Canada.

Dare I say Go Canada Go on an American Forum?

Jamie :p
_________________________
"A cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" Oscar Wilde.

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#704764 - 02/18/02 02:45 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
Fritz Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/02
Posts: 68
Loc: Hatfield, PA, USA
I don't know how the sport can ever be restored to full respectability. I think gymnastics, in the Summer O's, will suffer from this, too.

It is a shame. Both sports are so enjoyable, yet perhaps they just don't belong in the Olympics.

Would a radical increase in the number of judges help any? Maybe that isn't practical but it would seem a lot harder to tamper with a result if there were...12, or 20 judges, instead of five.

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#704765 - 02/18/02 03:18 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Samejame:
Cool! A non-piano thread![/b]


You know, I've asked Frank if he could put up a non-musical forum on the site so that we could just talk about stuff (as in whatever) before and I never got a reply. As this forum is about the attacks and the war, I don't really think that it counts.
But, this particular thread seems to be the "evolution thread" that we need to get this forum onto other topics than just the war. I think that you can root on Canada here since they did deserve the gold more than the Russian's.
_________________________
For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com

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#704766 - 02/19/02 07:35 AM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
I agree. I think it would be a great idea if a forum can be opened and dedicated to non-music topics. The forum can be named something like: Coffee Room. What do you think, Frank? Am I opening a can of worms?...

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#704767 - 02/19/02 05:17 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by AndrewG:
The forum can be named something like: Coffee Room[/b]


Love that name. Are you listening, Frank? Others like the idea as well.
_________________________
For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com

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#704768 - 02/20/02 02:29 AM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
Shadorunnr Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 125
Loc: Oklahoma City
I vote for coffee room also!
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#704769 - 02/20/02 02:56 AM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
YAAH! Another vote! Go Coffee Room!
_________________________
For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com

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#704770 - 02/20/02 07:59 AM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
Piano World Offline


Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5528
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (originally N...
OK,OK,

You guys win!

The Coffee Room is now open...

Please use it to carry on non-music discussions. See the rules in my Welcome message.

One more thing.
If you need to reach me, don't wait for me to read your post, I can't get in here often enough. Write directly to me at:
webmaster@pianoworld.com

- Frank B.
Piano World

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: PianoWorld ]
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#704771 - 02/20/02 08:25 AM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
AndrewG Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2506
Loc: Denver, Colorado
Thanks, Frank!

Many thanks and a bear hug from me!

Now just think of it, I'll probably seldom post there. Oh well...

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#704772 - 02/21/02 12:43 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
SR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 718
Loc: Los Angeles
Couldn't disagree more. The Russian pair won. It's over. Thats sport. balls take unfavorable bounces, good puts don't drop, a bowling ball right i the pocket doesn't always result in a strike, umpires call people safe who were out.

What should we do re-open every Olympic decision for debate ? Havent you noticed in ice skateing the skaters who are supposed to be on top always are ? There is never an upset. It's always been a scam.

The real problem here is that ice skating while difficult and beautiful is not a sport it, like gymnastics and diving has no business in the Olympics at all. Any thing that must be judged solely by opinion is not a sport. Sport requires points or timing or a knockout, some non subjective method of determining a winner.

Just my opinion

Steve
_________________________
www.mozartforum.com

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#704773 - 02/21/02 01:24 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
Steve,

This is NOT like the unfortunate bounce, or a bad call. It's more like Pete Rose making bets while he plays/coaches. The fix was on! But I agree that ice dancing always looks suspicious. I would agree on getting rid of ice dancing (why not have regular dancing as a "sport?"). But I think there is enough athleticism in figure skating to come up with judging that would keep it a "sport."

penny

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#704774 - 02/21/02 03:03 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
SR Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 718
Loc: Los Angeles
My point is that in a true sport, unfair things happen. Referees and umpires make bad calls sometimes, games may even get fixed somtimes. Even the World Series was fixed once that we know of.

In a "sport" like figure skating the fix always seems to be in, and if it's not a direct fix it is a political agenda. There is no firm way of proving anything. They (meaning the ISU) have gotten away with it for so long because we (the uneducated viewers) have always assumed there are details or subtleties we are just unable to see. I've always wondered why the skater that looked great to me but happened to be from some obscure country and wasn't ranked in the top 20 always finishes out of the top 20, no matter how good they skate. Alot of times I see them as silver or bronze and they get nothing. If people want to see figure skating remain an Olympic event instead of an Ice Capades event they should judge it just as we have done here. Put an applause o' meter on the crowd and who ever gets the most applause wins. Popular opinion has chosen the Canadians to be the winners so they get a medal. Absurd in my mind.

Steve
_________________________
www.mozartforum.com

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#704775 - 02/21/02 03:52 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
Penny Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2943
Loc: San Juan Capistrano, CA
I think it's fair to say that the Canadians DID skate more cleanly that day. But the Russians had greater difficulty. How that all is SUPPOSED to wash out in the end, I'm not sure. I guess it depends on how more difficult one routine was over the other. I'm not Canadian. I haven't even been there (OK, when I was 3 doesn't count). But I've been to Russia and one of my very best friends lives there. I'm VERY partial to Russians (too bad about Plushenko!). But the Canadians won in the eyes of this judge!

penny

[ February 21, 2002: Message edited by: Penny ]

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#704776 - 02/21/02 07:41 PM Re: Partial justice is done for Canadian pair!
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
Thanks, Frank! We won't let you down.
_________________________
For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com

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