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#704926 - 09/16/01 05:09 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Rick Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/01/01
Posts: 559
Loc: Chicago
Dwain, that is a very eloquent synopsis. I can't begin to top that, so I just have to say "Amen". God bless America and pray for our President.

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#704927 - 09/16/01 08:53 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Dan Offline


Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 1031
Loc: Colorado
I told myself that I wasn't going to post on this thread as I wasn't interested in an argument right now, but what the hell, here goes…

First, you should all know that I'm a liberal, and I'm proud of it. I believe in protecting the environment. I believe in equality for all races, religions, genders and sexual orientations. I am pro-choice. I believe in affirmative action. More often than not, I'm in agreement with the ACLU's position on anything they get involved with. And my liberal leanings can go on and on as you may well suspect.

Are these idealistic beliefs? You bet they are! Are some of my beliefs “castles in sky” and unlikely to ever work as I believe they could work? Of course some of them are! They are nevertheless MY BELIEFS, and I cherish them.

But you know what? None of that is important at the moment. The attack on America is an attack on the very foundations of my beliefs. Without the freedoms provided to me by America, I would have never had the luxury of formulating those beliefs, nor had the ability to voice them.

We must have JUSTICE ... then peace. There is simply no viable alternative to that approach. Without first achieving Justice, there can never be a real peace. Furthermore, we must achieve justice without ourselves committing injustice. Does that mean that no innocent lives will be lost in the worlds pursuit of justice? Sadly, no. Additional innocent lives (beyond what we've already lost in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania) will be lost in the pursuit of justice. It is the job of our leaders and our allies to do everything possible to minimize the loss of innocent lives, while at the same time ensuring that the steps taken to protect the innocent do not unduly jeopardize the success of the mission. It is OUR job as members of the world community to ensure that injustice does not creep into our lives and color our thoughts and actions. Muslims are not the enemy. Afghans are not the enemy. Liberals and reactionaries and anyone in-between are not the enemy. Terrorists are the enemy, in all of their many guises and nationalities. The world is faced with a series hard decisions. By following a careful path we have the opportunity to make the world a better place for ALL of its inhabitants. To me, that path is simply stated as

Justice ... then peace.

Dan

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#704928 - 09/16/01 09:18 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dan:

First, you should all know that I'm a liberal, and I'm proud of it. I believe in protecting the environment. I believe in equality for all races, religions, genders and sexual orientations.

Liberals and reactionaries and anyone in-between are not the enemy. [/b]



Just a couple of things, Dan, as a point of clarification. Protecting the environment, equality for all races, religions, genders, and sexual orientations do no make you a liberal. Conservatives believe in those things too.

And the opposite of liberals is not reactionaries. I know that's what liberal thought teaches, but I wanted to take the opportunity to clear that up for you. "Conservative" does not mean "irrational" or "reactionary" or such. It does not mean we are all belong to the local militia or the Klan. I am from the South, and I can tell you it is quite the opposite actually. Most of the ones in the Klan are Democrats, as are most of the ones in the militia groups. And they proudly let you know it.

Conservatives are just as educated as liberals. We are just as caring. We think deeply, and are able to think deeply, just like liberals. We just differ on how to solve certain problems.

I don't write this to argue the point, but to clarify it. I agree with you that what we face needs to bring us together at a point beyond the level of liberal/conservative. But as a Conservative, the word "reactionary" is as unsettling to me as the word "Utopian" would be to you. It just doesn't fairly describe what a Conservative is.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#704929 - 09/16/01 10:55 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Dan Offline


Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 1031
Loc: Colorado
Yes Larry, I agree with your clarification. What I intended to convey was two extremes (Utopian and Reactionary in your terminology). The "anyone in-between" was meant to include liberals (me), conservatives (you), and everyone else.

As you seem to have understood, it wasn't my intention to paint anyone in this forum with any labels. Merely to point out that where an individual falls on that scale is not what's important at the moment.

And, just for fun let me say that the label "Democrat" and the label "Liberal" is also not the same thing. Tying the "Democrat" label to the Klan and using the "Democrat" label as a synonym to the "Liberal" label could also be interpreted as an insult by the way, and that linkage is just as unsettling to me as the label "Reactionary" was to you.

Your mentioning of the Klan, militia groups and I'll add White Supremacists groups raises an interesting train of thought. Are these group terrorist organizations? Does America's war on terrorism include a war on these groups? If it does, do we try to figure out which ones have actually practiced terrorism versus those that have only talked about it? And if we make that distinction in America, do we also try to sort out "talk" versus "deeds" for the international terrorists as well? There's some pretty sticky moral questions we're going to have to face in this war. For the immediate future, these questions don't need to be answered. But for the phase 2 operations against terrorism, I sure don't know what the "right" answers are.

Dan

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#704930 - 09/16/01 11:36 PM Re: On a day like this.........
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 1926
Loc: New York
DeeWain scribbles: "So netizen, which post contained the most "thoughtfulness"? Was it when Pique called our president "foolhardy" just one day after the attack? "[ Actually, I sort of thought that was a very generous characterization]. Blah, blah, blah, blah Maybe you liked it best when she accused me (after all her remarks so far) of "divisive partisan politics" and "knee-jerk intolerance"? [ Hmmmmm, sounds about right to me]. Blah, blah, blah, blah.. Wow, did I ever feel like a whipped puppy after she said it "doesn't do you credit, doesn't serve this discussion, and is, i feel, especially inappropriate." Shame on me. [Honey, we've all been there before. Just give yourself a big hug]. More blah....

Blah, blah, blah...I thank David Burton specifically for pointing out what should be obvious to all by now. Liberal thinking has significantly hampered our nations commerce, jeopardized our safety, and unraveled our moral fabric. These people are dangerous and the rest of us ought to confront them at every opportunity. "

Right on, DeeWain! I so appreciate your skipping the Lancaster County Saturday Night Hootenany just so you can send me that special message of freedom and tolerance --especially at this time in our nation's history. Whew, I'll sleep easier knowing that DeeWain Andrews, Church Music Systems Specialist of Lancaster, Pa has it all figured out!! Rest assured as soon as I've dug my way out of the wreckage, I'll be on the lookout for these dangerous liberals. In this day and age it's so important to know your enemies.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: netizen ]
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt

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#704931 - 09/17/01 12:08 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Well netizen, while displaying your respect for others here as requested by the Webmaster by making personal slurs, I suggest you first figure out whose message you're responding to.

DeeWain

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#704932 - 09/17/01 12:10 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
It might be a good start to just pay enough attention to know their correct names.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#704933 - 09/17/01 12:21 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dan:
As you seem to have understood, it wasn't my intention to paint anyone in this forum with any labels. Merely to point out that where an individual falls on that scale is not what's important at the moment.

[/b]


Yes, I did understand that. And you are quite correct, one label doesn't automatically associate the other. As for the groups like the Klan and the militia groups, yes, I guess they would qualify as a subversive element in society, but at the moment none of them seem to be involved in any terrorist activities. The Klan seems to have become nothing more than a rag tag group of rednecks who get together once in awhile and drink beer and talk about the people they hate, and the militia groups seem to be out of sight too - but maybe my perspective on them is skewed by the fact that I don't really pay much attention to them.

There will be differing opinions as this thing progresses, and it is important that our country put aside these issues for a time. If we don't, we will tear ourselves apart on our own, and lose the war. Then it won't matter which label you fall under.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#704934 - 09/17/01 06:50 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Diarmuid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 219
Dave A.

As far as I'm concerned the USA seems to be doing exactly the right thing. Finding out who is responsible, requesting their immediate extradition, and if this is not forthcoming treating the people who harbour them as equally responsible and taking decisive military action against them. In addition to this G.W. Bush is launching a long term military campaign against terrorism.

And, listen, please calm down. I'm not having a go at you. People in Britain are 100% behind you. Liberal or otherwise (and it does seem that Liberal means something different this side of the pond).

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#704935 - 09/17/01 07:20 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Diarmuid Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 219
Dwain,

Thanks for your reply. I promise you I have no sympathy for the thoughts expressed by Pique or Bernard. I think they are highly inappropriate and deeply naive.

And I can assure you I'm with you.

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#704936 - 09/17/01 09:01 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Dave Andrews Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 24
Loc: Lancaster County, PA
Diarmuid posted September 17, 2001 06:50 AM:

Dave A.

As far as I'm concerned the USA seems to be doing exactly the right thing. Finding out who is responsible, requesting their immediate extradition, and if this is not forthcoming treating the people who harbour them as equally responsible and taking decisive military action against them. In addition to this G.W. Bush is launching a long term military campaign against terrorism. [/b]

I agree totally.

And, listen, please calm down. I'm not having a go at you.[/b]

Understood. That's why my response to you was neutral, encouraging you to speak to issues as a refreshing change. My stronger language is reserved for commentary that only further makes my point -- as in the little temper tantrum posted by netizen. By the way, I'm quite calm. The first error made in a debate by liberals is to assume that strong arguments must be made with animosity. Such is not the case, at least from my end. Of course, in the face of a strong argument, most of them crumble into rock throwing, tears, pouting and generally adolescent behavior.

People in Britain are 100% behind you. Liberal or otherwise [/b]

This is understood and deeply appreciated. Thank you.

(and it does seem that Liberal means something different this side of the pond).[/b]

I cannot speak for your country, so you may be right. But in this country, liberals have been responsible for promulgating social programs that have been obscenely expensive and for the most part, complete failures. The liberals always enjoy mandating their generosity through government action where everybody is forced to participate. These programs have always contained a major bureaucratic component which has assured that the bulk of the funds confiscated never get to where they are intended. This has made the government in our country a huge financial drain on the engine that drives our economy: small business. When given a chance, a lot of small business becomes big business.

As a by-product of the above, liberals in this country have become the strongest proponents of wealth redistribution not only via social programs, but through tax policies. They are, at their core, anti-capitalists. When they finish draining all available resources from our economic engine, they then look to areas that are of a much lower priority to them, and rob funds there. The chief target for additional budgetary funds is, of course defense which is at the heart of our problems right now. The number one function of our government is to protect its citizens, yet when we throw liberals into the mix, we find out that the rest of the world is not all that bad afterall, nobody will want to hurt us because we're so well meaning. We don't need to maintain our defenses. After all, the cold war is over. Let's light a candle and sing to world peace. "We are the world" "blah, blah, blah" (copyright 2001, netizen).

Liberals in this country have given us judicial activism. Rather than use the prescribed constitutional process given to the congress for redressing issues through the lawmaking process, activist judges have reinterpreted existing law in light of current "politically correct" thinking. "Politically correct thinking" is, at worst, an oxymoron, and at best, shifting sand. Either way, it's a usurpation of the constitution and why it's tolerated is beyond me.

Liberals in this country have become the chief apologists for some of the most reprehensible moral behavior in this country, and especially among our elected officials when they happen to be of the liberal persuasion. They have advanced a term which is commonly called "tolerance". Tolerance does not mean what it used to mean -- accomodating others of unlike faith, ideals, practices, etc. Tolerance now means that anybody's idea is just as valid and right as anybody elses and you better accept it as truth because the other person believes it to be truth. This is liberalism's most substantive attack on the last vestiges of morality in our country, trying to erase all semblances of right and wrong and allows them to give credence to pure unadulterated depravity.

Finally, liberals in this country have so misconstrued our founding fathers intent, that anybody with religious faith of virtually any stripe in this country will instantly be labelled a pariah if that faith is expressed in any public forum, especially one associated with the government.

Just as a point of reference, there are liberal republicans and conservative democrats. The liberal - conservative divide is *not* along party lines. As a republican, I hold conservative democrats in the greatest esteem.

So, when I said these people are dangerous, I was dead serious and will continue to maintain that position and do my best to stomp on liberalism at every opportunity, and encourage others who are equally alarmed at where our country is now over where it once was, to do the same. To sit idly by while they continue with their huge disconnects in cause and effect relationships is to hand the keys of the country to Bin Laden types.
_________________________
Dave Andrews, RPS
(Recovering Piano Salesman)
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists

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#704937 - 09/17/01 09:42 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1659
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Let us remember the root cause of Osama bin Laden's actions: religious fanatacism.
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#704938 - 09/17/01 09:53 AM Re: On a day like this.........
Dave Andrews Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 24
Loc: Lancaster County, PA
Hank Drake posted September 17, 2001 09:42 AM

Let us remember the root cause of Osama bin Laden's actions: religious fanatacism.[/b]

Try unabated hatred or even a perversion of religion if you must. But when you use terms like "religious fanatacism" you invite condemnation to all peoples of all faiths that have deeply held religious views, and you miss the mark entirely with your analysis which is neither accurate nor well reasoned. It's just a shorthand stomp on faith -- a typical rallying cry of those opposed to any religious expression.
_________________________
Dave Andrews, RPS
(Recovering Piano Salesman)
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists

Top
#704939 - 09/17/01 11:20 AM Re: On a day like this.........
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
To both of your latest posts, Amen and Amen.

The big name liberals continue to push failed programs that feel good. Then they take the credit when others hard work and money actually does something about the problem.

As many Muslims have stated these past days, both OBL and the Taliban push a distorted version of that religion. Since one definition of religion is a cause pursued with zeal or fervor, religious fanaticism might be an accurate description of what they follow; however, it is misleading because that isn't the primary definition. They are inherently evil kooks who use a perverted form of religion as their foundation. Perhaps, that might have been what Hank meant.
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#704940 - 09/17/01 12:54 PM Re: On a day like this.........
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
dave andrews:

according to your definition of a liberal, i am one, and proudly. though i disagree that we misconstrue the founding fathers' intent where it come to the separation of church and state.

thankfully we have a free society that permits the expression of all points of view without persecution. i could never tolerate living in the kind of society you view as your ideal. i repeat: your view of the world and what is "right" is totally intolerable to me: your idea of morality is not the same as mine, nor is your idea of religion.

there are millions of people out there who don't see the world as you do. or, for that matter, don't see the world as i do.

the difference is that i don't think any of us has a right to force our morality or religion on others, and apparently you think you know how others should lead their lives.

like i said, thankfully our bill of rights and our constitution protect us from people who think they know it all and want to shove their "morality" down other peoples' throats.

religious fanaticism is abhorrent to me no matter which religion it is associated with, or where. faith is a private matter; people who use it as a bludgeon to force their own social and political agenda are immoral, in my book.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#704941 - 09/17/01 01:25 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Alex Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 116
Loc: Plano, tx
Pique, Amen!

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#704942 - 09/17/01 02:13 PM Re: On a day like this.........
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
 Quote:
the difference is that i don't think any of us has a right to force our morality or religion on others


I couldn't agree more. But then we get into definitions. If I stand in front of a group of high school students and tell them how my relationship with God has enriched my life am I "forcing" my morality on them. No, I'm just talking and those who don't want to listen can tune me out. On the other hand, if I make you give me money to finance social programs developed under my moral rules and threaten you with jail if you don't pay, am I forcing my morality on you? I think so. Many liberals would think just the opposite. The former, talking about God in a school, is somehow defined as Congress making a law establishing a religion and despised. The latter is adored for it is deemed in the public good. Much more force, or threat thereof, is present in the latter.

If only we would give the 9th and 10th Amendments the weight that we give to the 1st.
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#704943 - 09/17/01 02:25 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Dave Andrews Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 24
Loc: Lancaster County, PA
pique posted September 17, 2001 12:54 PM

i could never tolerate living in the kind of society you view as your ideal. i repeat: your view of the world and what is "right" is totally intolerable to me: your idea of morality is not the same as mine, nor is your idea of religion. [/b]

Okay, Pique. Here's a test. 1. What is my "idea of morality"? 2. What is my "idea of religion"? 3. What kind of society do I view as my ideal? Be specific so that we have something to debate rather than to exercise our vocabularies with negative innuendo.

there are millions of people out there who don't see the world as you do.[/b]

Oh yes, I almost forgot. 4. How do I see the world?

the difference is that i don't think any of us has a right to force our morality or religion on others, and apparently you think you know how others should lead their lives.[/b]

Where or when did I say that I was forcing my religion on anybody? Where did I even state what my religion was? And as for forcing morality on anyone, it's called the law and is designed to allow a pluralistic society to function in an orderly fashion. So what is it that you are talking about?

like i said, thankfully our bill of rights and our constitution protect us from people who think they know it all and want to shove their "morality" down other peoples' throats.[/b]

You liberals really hate it when someone can reach a conclusion and state it confidently, don't you? Maybe you're frustrated because the conclusion that you reach today is subject to complete revision tomorrow. You have no moral anchor of any type other than how it feels today, so there is no constant in your life creating all of the confused verbage you're dumping here. As soon as a strongly worded opinion advances that shakes up your categories, you run for the cover of sanctimonious name calling. Well, as a "know it all" I can tell you that I know for certain that your casting of aspersions pretty much makes all of my points about you as a quintessential liberal. I am, however, gratified that you're at least willing to accept the mantle instead of trying to hide behind some self-righteous facade as a reasonable thinking person. You've refuted that camouflage with these posts better than anything I could ever say to expose you.

religious fanaticism is abhorrent to me no matter which religion it is associated with, or where. faith is a private matter; people who use it as a bludgeon to force their own social and political agenda are immoral, in my book. [/b]

Deeply held religious views are quite well reasoned in most cases and do not represent fanaticism for the majority of Americans. Yet you continue to paint with that broad brush. While you state "fanatics" specifically, your implications target all religious faith. You scream like a stuck pig when I define liberals (without challenging any particular point) and then turn around and make so many broad generalizations that nobody in their right mind can follow just exactly what it is you're trying to say. And you're a journalist? Hope you have a real job to fall back on.

Everybody has some philosophical base from which they operate. Your religious fanaticism appears to be secular humanism, the elevation of man as the ultimate decider of all right and wrong as the situation may call for. As a philosophical fanatic, you and your liberal pals exhibit far more animous and venom towards people of faith than can be remotely justified. You are guilty of bigotry and hypocrisy of the first order, and your posts prove it.

As for me, I am only interested in having this society operate as the founding fathers intended, using the remedies prescribed by the constitution. That means that people of some religious and/or philosophical point of view have an equal opportunity at affecting legislation, and we intend to do just that. It is our right, just as it is your right to work for your goals. You liberals want to bypass the normally prescribed methods for remedy and choose whatever is expedient. You also become far more militant in your condemnation of others than I have ever seen coming from the conservative side, and are the first to try and limit the rights of those with whom you do not agree.

I have always been a law abiding citizen and will abide by the laws -- i.e. prescribed and mandated morality -- defined for us in this pluralistic society by our government. I will continue to tolerate (in the old fashioned sense of the word) people like you with views that are muddled and irrational. However, your propoganda will not go unchallenged when you choose to post in a public forum where I have an opportunity to respond.

Unless you can come back with some specific issue that you would like to debate, I suggest that you not try another post where all you proffer are feelings, impressions and generalities. I'm liable to get moderately testy and in a moment of weakness, raise my verbal phasor from "stun" to "decimate". While it may be entertaining for a few, it is not all that edifying to the majority and I'd prefer not to try their patience any more than I have already.
_________________________
Dave Andrews, RPS
(Recovering Piano Salesman)
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists

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#704944 - 09/17/01 03:12 PM Re: On a day like this.........
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
 Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Andrews:

Okay, Pique. Here's a test. 1. What is my "idea of morality"? 2. What is my "idea of religion"? 3. What kind of society do I view as my ideal? Be specific so that we have something to debate rather than to exercise our vocabularies with negative innuendo.[/b][/b]


in answer to your questions, go back and read your own post!


>>And as for forcing morality on anyone, it's called the law and is designed to allow a pluralistic society to function in an orderly fashion. So what is it that you are talking about? <<

the law and morality are not equivalent. for example, it is the law that a woman has a right to an abortion. to a large number of people in this society, abortion is not moral right. those who espouse the "right to life" philosophy are trying to force their morality--not the law--on others.

>>You have no moral anchor of any type other than how it feels today <<

where is it written that thought is superior to feeling? i think as a society we probably need both.

>>As soon as a strongly worded opinion advances that shakes up your categories, you run for the cover of sanctimonious name calling. <<

dave, point out a single name that i called you in my post. there isn't any name calling there.

>>Deeply held religious views are quite well reasoned in most cases <<

ROFLOL!!! this is your most hilarious statement yet! and you accuse me of feeling without thinking? what else is religion but feeling without thinking? again, i'm not condemning feeling--i think it is as valid a way of "knowing" something as thinking--but religious belief is not based on reason!!!
it is based on direct--and i might add, very private--experience. and that experience is a feeling, and is in no way rational. it may be valid, but it is not reasoned!!

>>While you state "fanatics" specifically, your implications target all religious faith. <<

yes, i was very specific about fanaticism. so why are *you* implicating all religious faith? and why are you so touchy about being painted as a fanatic just for being religious? that wasn't what *i* said.

>>>You scream like a stuck pig <<

gee, that sounds like name calling to me!

>>Your religious fanaticism appears to be secular humanism, the elevation of man as the ultimate decider of all right and wrong as the situation may call for. <<

certainly. and i consider it a very well reasoned religious fanaticism, too. (LOL)

>>you and your liberal pals exhibit far more animous and venom towards people of faith than can be remotely justified. <<

more war and bloodshed have been committed in the name of service to god than for any other reason. i think anyone who feels animosity towards organized religion can easily find numerous and very solid justifications for it.

>>I'm liable to get moderately testy and in a moment of weakness, raise my verbal phasor from "stun" to "decimate". <<

oh, dear, oh, dear. i am just quivering in fear. whoever it was that suggested that you wait to speak until you got out of diapers was, i'm afraid, too on target.


>>While it may be entertaining for a few, it is not all that edifying to the majority and I'd prefer not to try their patience any more than I have already<<

i could have hardly said it better myself. a good reason for you to take your own advice about posting here.

[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: pique ]
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#704945 - 09/17/01 03:45 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Dave Andrews Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 24
Loc: Lancaster County, PA
pique posted September 17, 2001 03:12 PM

in answer to your questions, go back and read your own post![/b]

My posts offered no such specifics.

the law and morality are not equivalent.[/b]

Morality: 1. The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.

Law: 1. A rule of conduct or procedure established by custom, agreement, or authority.

Conclusion: same thing based on my usage. Got any more oblique insights?

where is it written that thought is superior to feeling? [/b]

You must be kidding?

No wonder debating anything with liberals is an exercise in futility. You're liable to wake up tomorrow and "feel" that Bin Laden was just trying to help NY with major renovations.

In light of these comments, I'll let my previous posts stand as written. You're certainly welcome to the last word if you have anybody that is still listening to you for anything more than entertainment value.
_________________________
Dave Andrews, RPS
(Recovering Piano Salesman)
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists

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#704946 - 09/17/01 04:12 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Hank Drake Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/01
Posts: 1659
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
I do not speak for pique, but for me the mark of delineation between "deeply held religious beliefs" and "fanatic" is when one goes spouting the nonsense that Jerry Falwell did last week.
_________________________
Hank Drake

The composers want performers be imaginative, in the direction of their thinking--not just robots, who execute orders.
George Szell

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#704947 - 09/17/01 04:40 PM Re: On a day like this.........
Piano World Offline



Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 5576
Loc: Parsonsfield, ME (orig. Nahant...
This Thread Is Closed![/b]


Apparently you folks aren't getting my message. When you stoop to fighting among yourselves ... the terrorist are winning!

I agreed to open a forum for everyone to discuss the horrible events of last week. I did not expect it to degrade into mud slinging. I would have expected better from this group.
You can continue to use this forum to discuss ways TO HELP EACH OTHER[/b].

It is time to work together again, to help the thousands of families that have lost loved ones and to save our country from this debacle. Put your petty political debates aside.
GOT IT?

Frank B.
Piano World

[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: PianoWorld ]

[ September 17, 2001: Message edited by: PianoWorld ]
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