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#707303 - 04/18/05 06:43 PM I think we're owed an apology
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
For those of you who steadfastly refused to moderate your method of discussion in the Coffee Room, your actions have been the cause of the downfall of what has been an important part of the lives of many of PW's members. Your callous disregard for maintaining civility, proudly brushing off admonitions to "cool it" by proudly proclaiming "That's just the way I am, if you don't like it, tough luck," stooping to the level of slinging mud at those with whom you disagree, all of these behaviors have caused this place to be shut down.

I won't be joining any "new" Coffee Room replacement forums. I am this/close to being completely furious with certain people here, people whose cavalier attitudes about their own behavior is beyond reprehensible. I don't want to join any forums where more of the same B.S. is just going to spring up again.

On behalf of those of us who managed to rein in the more agressive aspects of our personalities, I think we're owed an apology by you bozos.
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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Piano & Music Accessories
#707304 - 04/18/05 06:49 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
Nope.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#707305 - 04/18/05 06:52 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Jack Frost Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 4454
Loc: Maine
Come on you two...I think we can still turn this into a win/win situation....

jf
_________________________
"Make the pie higher." GWB

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#707306 - 04/18/05 06:53 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
I'll go first if it will help the healing.

I apologize.

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#707307 - 04/18/05 06:54 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Nope. [/b]
Congratulations on being a first-class jerk. I can only surmise that the shutting down of the Coffee Room was your intention all along.
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#707308 - 04/18/05 06:57 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:
I'll go first if it will help the healing.

I apologize. [/b]
You have nothing to apologize for.

Let me be the first to admit there were times I would have cheerfully wrang your cyberneck, chunked you in a briar patch, and told God you died.

But that's not your fault, that's mine.

You were just being kenny.

There's nothing wrong with being who you are.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#707309 - 04/18/05 06:57 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
pianojerome Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 9868
I'm terribly sorry if any of my posts had anything to do with this.

Please accept my apologies.
_________________________
Sam

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#707310 - 04/18/05 06:58 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Nope. [/b]
Congratulations on being a first-class jerk. I can only surmise that the shutting down of the Coffee Room was your intention all along. [/b]
Have a nice day, Matt.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#707311 - 04/18/05 06:59 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Matt G.:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Nope. [/b]
Congratulations on being a first-class jerk. I can only surmise that the shutting down of the Coffee Room was your intention all along. [/b]
Have a nice day, Matt. [/b]
You do the same, son.
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#707312 - 04/18/05 07:00 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
I'm sorry, too. I know people feel I'm enabler to bad behavior. We don't agree. I'm sorry for that.
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#707313 - 04/18/05 07:00 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
Matt, I was thinking the same thing. I've had a wavering opinion on what is happening right now, regarding Frank's reason for closing this place down.

Frank seems to be trying to get this place back on topic (Piano[/b] World). I took that to be a bit of a cover-up for the real reason, namely, the ill-spirited discussions that had been going on. Now, however, I can understand his thinking.

I don't ask for an apology from anyone. I ask Frank to accept our apologies for making this harder than it already is. I think I can safely speak for everyone when I say that I genuinely appreciate the effort he has put into this board. The worst thing we could do is put up more controversial material.

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#707314 - 04/18/05 07:02 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
Well said, Matt. I hope we meet again.

As for the people who helped cause the CR to be shut down, they know darn well who they are.

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#707315 - 04/18/05 07:04 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
Well, I have been over the top on occasion. On lots of occasions. And for that I do apologize.

Matt, we've never gotten along and it's been largely my fault. I will leave this place with only good thoughts of you. I hope you will occasionally think kindly of me.

Tom

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#707316 - 04/18/05 07:13 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
kenny: "I'll go first if it will help the healing.

I apologize."

You have nothing to apologize for.

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#707317 - 04/18/05 07:15 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
Not everyone feels that way.

What is important now, and what is so easily overlooked, is the feelings of others who we don't understand.

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#707318 - 04/18/05 07:18 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:
Not everyone feels that way.

What is important now, and what is so easy to overlook, is the feelings of others who we don't understand. [/b]
Well put, kenny. An apology is not about understanding, it's about healing and forgivness.

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#707319 - 04/18/05 07:48 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Troyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Ct
Hay Matt, Good poste.

I'm sorrey for any wey I've uffended u.
_________________________
go Red Sox!

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#707320 - 04/18/05 07:48 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
If anything I've done is part (or all) of the reason for shutdown of the CR, I apologize too.

I was very angry last week when curtly told to remove something I had posted. I feel badly that markjpcs and I got off on such bad footing so early in his tenure as a moderator. I have nothing against him but was taken aback by the abrasiveness. I think we had one of those unfortunate banging of heads due to extenuating circumstances. I consider myself a reasonable person and am willing to chalk it up to training wheels.

Just so there is no doubt, though, I want to feel I could re-post my picture or other family pictures in the future if the occassion should arise. I said in one of my replies last week that if this turned into a family forum for some but not all, I would leave and never come back. I meant it. It took me many years to develop self-acceptance and I will not hang around anywhere that makes me feel a need to hide an important part of who I am. If that's what this place is, it's not for me. I wish markjpcs hadn't taken my statement so much as a threat as simply a statement of fact.

I am out and I am celebrating it. I spent a good deal of yesterday with Preston walking arm in arm, hand in hand around Madison Sq. Park and Chelsea. We ran into uncountable numbers of men doing the same. We even pecked each other, discreetly, right in the middle of the festival taking place on Broadway. At the corner of 8th Ave. and 23rd St. is a huge billboard (I'm talking multi-story) plastered up against one of the buildings--I can't remember what the advertisement was for--it showed two men in an embrace. It's there where everyone: men, women and children see it every day. No problem.

This is my life now. I am out and about. I am not in your face. I try to live as true to myself as possible and do what normal people do every day.

I've been removing negative influences from my life for some time now, and I would remove PW from it if I felt its policies were unfair. (That's not said in a threatening way. It's a fact--the results of a decision I have made about my life.)
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#707321 - 04/18/05 08:00 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
I don't know what we all are supposed to be apologizing for. The only problem I see here is that Ftrank wanted this to be family friendly since children have easy access and many of us (I could even go as far as saying all of us) have posted things that some people would not want their children to see.

I have been a member of another forum (actually run by an attorney) where certain posting behavior was suddenly proscribed as a result of certain legal threats. I don't know if that is the case here but if I were Frank I would not risk the shoal and shark infested waters of tort law to give a bunch of loudmouths the opportunity to "push the envelope". On the other hand, I would probably not be an active member of a board where frequent "envelope pushing" was not taking place.

Perhaps, a members only forum...
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#707322 - 04/18/05 08:02 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
CSG Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 494
Matt, you won't get many apolgies from those who helped mess this place up, they're following others. I'd give Frank the benefit of the doubt and do what you can to help him fix and grow this place. Personally, I think he ought to simply restrict topics in the CR as we do on my site and allow it to continue but it's his call and I'll back his play. I want him to succeed with PW. You run a site like this for the 80% of folks who agree with you, not the critics who have nothing or little of themselves invested.

Hey Troyboy, thanks for the hateful PM. You're a class guy...
_________________________
Pramberger JP-185 Bubinga
Kawai CP155
Yamaha P-120

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#707323 - 04/18/05 08:08 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Troyboy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/21/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Ct
CSG!
You have a site of your own?
You don't say?

You're welcome. And thanks for reading it- with a site 80 times bigger than anything else on the internet, it must be hard to get through all of the fan mail.
_________________________
go Red Sox!

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#707324 - 04/18/05 08:08 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Jack Frost Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 4454
Loc: Maine
I remian astonished that everyone is saying goodbye....Frank, this is not ripe or fair.

jf
_________________________
"Make the pie higher." GWB

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#707325 - 04/19/05 07:07 AM Re: I think we're owed an apology
QuirtEvans Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
I apologized for my part in the nastiness and incivility in another thread.

I'll repeat that apology here.

As I said there, the person to whom the apology is owed, really, is Frank. I and others abused his hospitality by refusing to follow his house rules.

Here's why my apology is not directed to Matt:

"Congratulations on being a first-class jerk."

Even Matt has been unable to rise above the effluent.

The fact that my nastiness was typically reactive doesn't excuse it. It became Lord of the Flies around here ... the group dynamic deteriorated, and we didn't rise above the falling standards. Personally, I was guilty of conforming to what was happening, as opposed to what Frank said should be happening.

I'm not going to comment on whether others should apologize too, or what could be said about their unwillingness to do so. It would just start us down the wrong path again.
_________________________
If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.

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#707326 - 04/19/05 08:03 AM Re: I think we're owed an apology
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
Human nature being what it is, the CR did pretty well as a non-moderated group. I've seen a lot worse, so I don't think any apologies are necessary. Frank's vision for PW does not align well with this type of forum; one with unrestricted access. I think in the minds of most here, the CR was working. Taking a step back and looking from Frank's perspective, maybe it wasn't.
_________________________
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.

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#707327 - 04/19/05 08:27 AM Re: I think we're owed an apology
reblder Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/01
Posts: 1237
Loc: Sherman Oaks, Calif.
Posted by ny1911:
 Quote:
Human nature being what it is, the CR did pretty well as a non-moderated group. I've seen a lot worse, so I don't think any apologies are necessary. [/b]
I'd agree with this and add that insofar as any of us "identify" so tenaciously with what's said here, it's more often than not a *sign* that we need to stop taking it all so seriously. So for instance, even in my most rancorous exchanges with Larry, as soon as I read what he said, I would simply burst out laughing. Not that THAT would have any effect in changing our minds about those issues but the point being that ideally we should "evolve" to the point where we don't identify ourselves by our thoughts. We're so much more than that.

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#707328 - 04/19/05 08:33 AM Re: I think we're owed an apology
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
I apologize too. I know I've played a not insignificant role in all of this. When I first ventured into the CR, I was intrigued by and drawn into the discussions, but flabbergasted by what seemed to be the one-sidedness of all talk political. I rallied to try to drum up support for the liberal cause. In doing that, I became woefully aware of the lack of civility, which was much more disturbing to me than the lack of political balance. I then made it a mission to bring that issue to the forefront. Little did I know or plan, that in the process, I would be branded as one of the trouble makers and gather a cadre of detractors along the way. Such was never my intent.

I believe that my greatest offense (aside from being liberal ) has been in making sweeping generalizations about groups of people whose beliefs I don't share. When it was drawn to my attention by Dwain, I made an effort to tone down my posts. I came to understand how such comments can hurt (ironically, as I've recently tried to explain in the lawyer thread). This is my first foray into internet forums, and it took me awhile to get somewhat up to speed on group internet dynamics. I think I'm much more savvy in that regard now than I was two years ago, and I am committed to continuing to check my interactions here when called to do so.

I don't believe I have ever been vulgar or personally insulted anyone here, except in defense of repeated attacks lodged at me. I realize that even this is not excusable. But, IMO it really takes a saint to let it all roll off. A saint I ain't, although I will work at it until the die I day.

I have a lot baggage here and will unfortunately, aways be somewhat of a pariah in the eyes of some here. But I have never wished anyone here ill will, certainly not the forum, and I harbor a great deal of affection for many of you. I just wish that those of you whom I've offended in any way would realize this.

I really wish we could continue. I can't believe I am the only one who saw progress on the horizon. \:\(

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#707329 - 04/19/05 08:38 AM Re: I think we're owed an apology
markallen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/28/04
Posts: 460
Loc: Stanwood, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Frost:
I remian astonished that everyone is saying goodbye....Frank, this is not ripe or fair.

jf [/b]
Jack, I've always thought highly of you and although we often disagree, I can't believe you would claim this is somehow unfair.

Frank owns PianoWorld just as I own my business and I assume you own your practice. Frank can, as an owner, decide to do anything he wants regarding these forums. As its been said many times, this is his house and we are the guests.

I had a customer once that spent almost $100k per year with me that I "fired" because he treated my employees disrespectfully and it was affecting my ability to provide value for my other clients. I've never regretted that decision. If Frank believes that by tearing down the CR the balance of the forums will become a better place, who are we to argue. Just go find someplace else.

I wish you and yours all the happiness life has to offer.
_________________________
Mark

New sig line in the works....

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#707330 - 04/19/05 08:40 AM Re: I think we're owed an apology
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
I'm in a hurry, but I'll just say this to MattG:

If you think you're going to disappear that easily, think again, TheoryBoy! I don't let cool people drift off without a fight.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#707331 - 04/19/05 03:07 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
Hell, I saw worse in the MS Zone Backgammon rooms.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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#707332 - 04/19/05 03:08 PM Re: I think we're owed an apology
mikhailoh Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 4288
Loc: Cincinnati
A LOT worse.
_________________________
Michael

====

He is so solemn, detached and uninvolved he makes Mr. Spock look like Hunter S. Thompson at closing time.'

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