erginc,

The "raped 13 year old" is a red-herring. In my moral universe, I have no problem with a raped 13 year old getting an abortion. However, usually a rape victim goes to the hospital immediately and there are other procedures that can be administered to prevent pregnancy.

If the "raped" 13 year old arrives at the hospital 4 months after the alleged rape, how does anyone know if she's telling the truth?

And so begins the slippery slope.

I don't doubt that your niece was raped. I therefore assume that her parent's took her to the hospital immediately. As a doctor I'd do whatever was necessary to insure the preganancy did not continue AT THAT TIME. I would be able to do so with a clear conscience inspite of the fact that I'm pro-life.

Derick

Cindy,

Welcome back.

jf

I've missed Cindy too.

Stuff it, John. If Planned Parenthood was really concerned with coming up with a "plan" for parenthood, they'd offer multiple options, and not push one over the other. The fact is, Planned Parenthood is nothing more than an abortion mill, and they steer everyone they can toward abortions. Take a little time to learn about it instead of just blindly supporting every liberal "cause" that comes down the pike.

To the guy who brought up his niece who was raped, I'm sorry that happened to her, but don't toss that out as if it represents the typical reason for an abortion, or that it had anything to do with what I was talking about. It's a red herring. In the case of rape I certainly support the idea of abortion, under certain guidelines. For instance, a girl who has been raped should be checked and watched closely to see if she has been impregnated, and the instant it is found that she has, an abortion performed. There is absolutely no reason for instance to wait 4 or 5 months or even more before that decision is made. This has absolutely nothing to do with the vast majority of abortions. Those who support abortion for any reason at any time always trot out things like this as if they prove their argument, and show the other side to be stupid neanderthals. The fact is, most people who are against abortion as it stands today do not have a problem with situations where it is really necessary, as long as it is done early. I can, from the other side of the issue, put forth the same kind of red herring example.

I could go on to once again tell when and under what circumstances I support abortion, and give you a long list of links that expose Planned Parenthood for the abortion mill it is, but there is no real point to it. The abortion-at-will crowd would still walk away convinced I am the closed minded throwback and they are the open minded "enlightened" ones able to see the more complex picture. The fact the opposite is the case. Prove me wrong. Support alternative solutions. Show me you can agree that there is a point where you have waited too late.

The founder of Ikea was also a Nazi sympathizer. Heck, we were told that Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond had changed their views, but I guess the same is not possible for Margaret Sanger.

So, tell me, Larry, when was the last time YOU set foot in a Planned Parenthood office to get guidance, advice, contraceptives, or procedures? If you haven't been there recently, I'll continue to believe you do not know what you are talking about.

So, tell me, Larry, when was the last time YOU set foot in a Planned Parenthood office to get guidance, advice, contraceptives, or procedures? If you haven't been there recently, I'll continue to believe you do not know what you are talking about.[/b]

I'm sorry, but only brain dead liberals have to be told the same thing over and over again. Those of us able to think for ourselves can retain information, and don't need to go back every day to be retrained.

I take it that means your answer to my question is "never".

...or for an institution founded by her more than 80 years ago...

Stupid argument Larry. Whatever PP's sins are today they do not include the warped views of its founder.

jf

oh yes they do...consider government funding for 'underprivileged' abortions. Smells like genocide to me... maybe not.. look at the numbers.

Thanks, JF and Apple.

JF, you and KathyK seem to have been scarce as well. So welcome back!

Apple, I'm sending positive Estonia vibes your way! Hang in there!

Cindy -- not in favor of federal funding for abortions in the U.S. because "choice" does not equate with "subsidy" in her mind

Red herring.

Is the man's point valid? Yes, or no?

And George Bush's family wealth is blood money from the Holocaust. His grandfather was not only a Nazi sympathizer, but a genocide opportunist.

Your wife seems to think alleged sins of Bush's family somehow include Bush 43 today.

I think she is arguing for consistency. Either people and institutions can be credited with change or not.

jf

I am 110% Pro-Life...

That said, I thought it was crazy that PP was offering that T-shirt on their site. Sounds to me more like some punishment handed down by a creative judge than anything else...you know, like being made to wear a shirt that says "I am a registered sex offender" or "I murdered my grandma" or something.

Hey if someone wears a T-shirt saying "I had an abortion", at least we can be warned of what they think of infants and children....as a matter of fact, if they handed those things out after every abortion, maybe there would be less of them, and maybe teens would think twice about messing around if they had to hide those T-shirts from mom and dad...

Its just another bold move by PP to counteract the growing evidence of life at conception by the growing popularity of the 3D ultrasound imaging, etc, that shows those tiny, tiny humans inside the womb that are being murdered daily.

JF and kathy

Look out. The kitchen drawer's open again.

JF and kathy

Reckon "JF" has a w die?


:p

I know...bad, bad, bad. I just had to beat Larry to it.

Chick,

Dead on hilarious!

I agree. But it is also more information than I think I need to have about this esteemed couple.

Oh, geez........................

Hey...... I didn't say a thing!....


But I *was* reminded of the joke about the woman who sat on Pinnochio and said "Lie to me!".....

No red herrings here. I repeat for those of you with selective reading skills.

"It always has been and always will be a woman's right to choose, whether done in secret or according to the law. "

Abortion is not murder, by choosing to abort a woman claims supremacy over her body and her womb as a portal into this life. Her own survival on her own terms, if she deems it necessary, over the survival of the "potential" human life she carries. Because she refuses to have that "life" come through her does not mean that the potential of that life cannot exist elsewhere, at another time, or come through someone else. It is possible to be pro-life and pro-choice, the choice, although very difficult to make, is simply whether that particular life is born into this world through you as a woman, or not.

It has always puzzled me why people with strong religious beliefs cannot believe with the same intensity, in the immortality of the human soul. And another question for you: Is quantity of lives better than the quality of one life?

After an initial hesitation, out of fear primarily, (bourne out by exactly what has transpired in this thread), I have decided that I agree with the T-shirt and anyone brave enough to wear it. Anything that works towards reducing the stigma and shame attached to having had an abortion is a positive thing.

Perhaps men could take a little more responsibility for both birth, and life, by insisting on wearing condoms, and by insisting on not fighting wars!

No red herrings here. I repeat for those of you with selective reading skills.

"It always has been and always will be a woman's right to choose, whether done in secret or according to the law. "

Abortion is not murder, by choosing to abort a woman claims supremacy over her body and her womb as a portal into this life. Her own survival on her own terms, if she deems it necessary, over the survival of the "potential" human life she carries. Because she refuses to have that "life" come through her does not mean that the potential of that life cannot exist elsewhere, at another time, or come through someone else.[/b]

I'm sorry... I tried to think of all sorts of ways to address this nonsense in a polite manner. But it is so ridiculously inane that I can't. This is the most idiotic rambling I've *ever* heard a pro-baby killer write.

Larry, I agree...

Legalize abortion. Choose to have one. Claim that members of our society can choose to perform feticide.

But please please don't pretend it is right and that it is not the taking of human life.

and claiming supremacy over ones body........

Sounds lofty doesn't it? Abortion is the claiming of supremacy over another's body.

apple, you pretty much hit the nail on the head there. You are exactly right.