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#719363 - 12/07/04 09:01 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Apple:

 Quote:
Ben - said he took no offense - why should you?
So if someone calls me "N-word," and I say I'm not offended, that makes it OK? Calling people names pollutes the community, even if the victim decides to be gracious about it.

 Quote:
What is dangerous about some of the recent attacks on Larry, is that attacks were solicited and used from trolls who would hurt the integrity of the forum.
Apple, I don't understand your point. Larry *invited* a discussion of his virtues as moderator. I think it a little late to complain that people actually said what they thought of the idea.

Regarding trolls . . . I don't understand this argument at all, really. If someone you have decided is a troll shows up and quotes me or JBryan or NY1911 in this thread, that somehow transforms our appropriate expressions of our opinions into something inappropriate?

Can you elaborate?
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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Piano & Music Accessories
#719364 - 12/07/04 09:03 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
JB--What the HELL have you been saying to these people? \:D

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#719365 - 12/07/04 09:06 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
I had my little steam let-off last night and said what I needed to say. My venting is done. I really like talking to some of you guys, and I miss it, but honestly, I can't take the heat and I am staying out of the kitchen.[/b]

"Little steam let-off"??????

Let me tell you about your "little steam letoff". I started what was intended to be a nice thread to commend us all for the polite and friendly tone we've enjoyed lately, and to apologize for my part in any of the past bitterness. You jumped in within minutes with the most vile, bitter, nasty attacks I've ever seen out of *anyone* on this forum, tearing through the place like a Mack truck running through a china shop. You have insulted me, offended me, you have openly admitted that all you care about is politics, not the people, you have openly stated that you "don't need the Coffee Room", you have openly stated that you "frankly, don't give a .......".

I'm amazed that anyone is even having a conversation with you.

My intent here was to promote good will, and to be nice. I have to tell you, and the "you" I'm referring to is the group at large - I cannot believe that you have been allowed to skirt around your vile and destructive comments in this thread, much less get away with your hateful remarks in the thread about my Mother. If you don't get called on the carpet any more than I'm seeing so far, I'm finished with this place. You've won. Bitterness, rudeness, hostility, and political mean spiritedness has won.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#719366 - 12/07/04 09:10 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Apple, I don't understand your point. Larry *invited* a discussion of his virtues as moderator.[/b]

Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with. I never "invited" anything regarding my "virtues as a moderator". I offered to *be* one, and made it clear from the start that there should be several. After suffering repeated attacks from those who dislike me because of their political views, I withdrew my offer to volunteer.

What is it that you can't keep track of things like this?
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#719367 - 12/07/04 09:31 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
we can perhaps all agree never to use someone's name more than once in the same message, but I think that is unnecessary and OTT.[/b]

Please, that is beside the point and you know it. Clearly I do not take issue with the number of times a person's name is used. I could use the same construction as before only telling you that you are witty, intelligent, charming, with a great sense of humor (all true, BTW) but that would clearly not be a problem now would it.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719368 - 12/07/04 09:31 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Larry:

 Quote:
Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with. I never "invited" anything regarding my "virtues as a moderator". I offered to *be* one, and made it clear from the start that there should be several. After suffering repeated attacks from those who dislike me because of their political views, I withdrew my offer to volunteer.

What is it that you can't keep track of things like this?
Once again, we open with a personal attack. Can you see the problem with speaking to people in this way, Larry? For one thing, it makes it harder for you to swallow those words when you are proved wrong, which is what I am about to do.

Larry, with all due respect, my characterization of that 15-page thread is spot-on. Yes, you initially simply volunteered. Then some people began endorsing you, saying they'd "vote" for you. The train was picking up speed.

Then others said they would *not* vote for you and said why.

And that is when you explicitly invited people to comment on your fitness for the job.

Larry wrote these words to me as I expressed reluctance to comment:

"Cindy, feel free to publicly post that you think I'm a lousy choice, that's fine. Later today, I'd like to address this issue of "can't even moderate himself". I think some people are letting their own biases cloud their thinking.

If I'm not "elected" it isn't going to hurt my feelings."[/b]

That is on page 5 of that 15-page monstrosity.

Larry, you pledged civility just last night. Is there any chance now that your recollection has been refreshed that you'll apologize for attacking me just now and admit that you did in fact explicitly invite a discussion of your virtues as moderator?
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719369 - 12/07/04 09:44 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
ad hominem attack alert!

 Quote:
Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with.
cindy, maybe this is what we need to do to clearly communicate what we mean by civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#719370 - 12/07/04 09:55 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
ad hominem attack alert!

 Quote:
Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with.
cindy, maybe this is what we need to do to clearly communicate what we mean by civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise. [/b]
For what it's worth, cindy will always pass muster--pique, you nasty little thing, may not. :p

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#719371 - 12/07/04 10:13 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
:p :p :p :p :p :p to you too, tom.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#719372 - 12/07/04 10:14 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise. [/b]
"Larry, is your mother proud of *you*? Never mind. Don't answer that. Just send me her e-mail address."
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#719373 - 12/07/04 10:15 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
QuirtEvans Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
"I say it is perfectly appropriate to reply to someone and say their analysis is simplistic. Or flawed. Or wrong. Or questionable. Or circular."

Cindy, I hate to say it, but you're on a slippery slope here. That principle doesn't work.

How about if someone said, your views are idiotic? How about, that argument is moronic? How about if someone said, that opinion is stupid and worthless and not worthy of intelligent discussion? These are statements about the argument or the views, not about the person, but they are highly insulting. They lead to personal attacks and flame wars. They should be out of bounds, too.
_________________________
If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.

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#719374 - 12/07/04 10:30 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
I agree with QuirtEvans on this. I would add that the slope is getting more slippery and the air icier by the moment.
_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#719375 - 12/07/04 10:40 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
Apple:
 Quote:
Ben - said he took no offense - why should you?
Apple, in all honesty, do you think it's acceptable to address a thirteen year old like this?

"Man, are *you* ever a freaking moron!"

"You can't move anywhere, Bendover. Your Mommy won't let you. You couldn't buy the gas to get to Canada from Texas, much less buy a cottage when you got there. You're just a punk kid who doesn't have a clue. Just one more snot nosed kid that has never had to work a day in his life, sucking off his mommy and daddy.
But let me join with those who have welcomed you to take your sorry little *** and get out of the US. Maybe you can save your allowance money until you can afford a bus ticket.
Of course, promise me you'll stay once you leave, and I'll buy the ticket for you."

"You see this little t*t sucker as mature?"


"All right, look here you stupid ****ing moron, I looked at your stupid ****ing chart and I cannot find in it one example of what could be fairly described as a deliberate misrepresentation of fact. There are a lot of intelligence estimates that turned out not to be correct but we already know about the problems with our intelligence community. None of these, however, is a lie. In other words, and I'm typing slowly here so even a stupid ****ing moron like yourself will understand, none of these were statements made with full knowledge that they were wrong at the time they were made. I don't mind having a debate about issues but you are in way over your head and I'm all done trying to sort ou your stupid ****ing point of view. "

"You left something out, moron."

Apple, I've got a thirteen year old step-son. I would not be happy about him being spoken to like this wether he said he was offended or not. He's THIRTEEN.

I know kids should not be here unattended/unsupervised but that's beside the point. Those standards are unacceptable to me.

Btw, I've left out the names of the posters because at least one but not all, made a subsequent effort to treat Ben in a more civil manner.
_________________________
How now, brown cow.

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#719376 - 12/07/04 10:52 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I don't approve of rudeness to anyone. That behavior is inappropriate, I agree. The point has been made at least 50 times and I agree with it each time....

however on the other hand, I don't know that it is right to garner partisan resentment against a poster, using the age of a 13 yr. old as fuel, and have that resentment serve ill ends. What happened in the anti-Larry tyrade is that a whole bunch of piano trolls jumped on Larry at certain peoples' prodding to the detriment of the forum.
That's not right. It's not right that people insult mothers who aren't here or that people I don't even know send me private messages bemoaning my behavior. I think I'm pretty fair and civil.

there's alot of other things I don't like but I have probably already stated them.

I like everyone arguing and engaging in debate.. We used to do it well before the election results erupted like an infected pimple. I hope it'll settle down because y'all have me quite upset.

The only thing I can do is practice.. tata
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#719377 - 12/07/04 11:02 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I hope it'll settle down because y'all have me quite upset.
[/b]
hmmmmm..........................
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#719378 - 12/07/04 11:24 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I like everyone arguing and engaging in debate.. We used to do it well before the election results erupted like an infected pimple. I hope it'll settle down because y'all have me quite upset.
[/b]
Well I would say it started going septic when the troops who went into Iraq couldn't find the infamous MWD and was downright gangrous by the election. No one realized the smell of almonds until about three weeks after Shantinik (the only person who I can honestly say I truly miss in this joint- whether or not I agreed with his points) pulled the plug. Even then the smell of rot was mistaken for icing sugar.
_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#719379 - 12/07/04 11:27 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
apple, how can you read the posts that lucy quoted, knowing full well who made them, say that you disapprove of those posts, and yet endorse the poster to be a moderator? it boggles the mind.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#719380 - 12/07/04 11:34 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
I'd just like to point out something to all you den mothers: In one CR thread, in one night, there were more posts than all the Tea Room threads combined. And a nasty sucker, it was.

Actions do speak louder than words....
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#719381 - 12/07/04 11:38 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise. [/b]
"Larry, is your mother proud of *you*? Never mind. Don't answer that. Just send me her e-mail address." [/b]
If that's my worst offense, I feel quite vindicated. BTW, to whomever suggested it, I did not insult Larry's mother in that thread, either.

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#719382 - 12/07/04 11:46 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
 Quote:
however on the other hand, I don't know that it is right to garner partisan resentment against a poster, using the age of a 13 yr. old as fuel, and have that resentment serve ill ends.
Apple, I'm not garnering partisan support against a poster. a) There's more than one and b)That's why I left out the names and I mentioned that at least one had tried to make ammends.
The point I'm making is that when there is a child on the forum we have a responsibility to moderate our behaviour considerably not speak to him/her in the style above.

Sorry if I've upset you mate! I know you don't disagree with any of this in principle.

Edit:If we're all talking too much and need to take action I suggest we start with Quirt's advice over in the other thread.
I'm up for it.
_________________________
How now, brown cow.

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#719383 - 12/07/04 11:48 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
Kathy, you kept telling Larry to give you his mom's email address so you could write her nasty emails about Larry. And piqu derided his mom's accomplishments and award honoring her for them.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#719384 - 12/07/04 11:58 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ossk8ter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 453
Loc: Dallas
I don't think that the members of the Piano Forum are best suited to act like the talking heads on CNN and Fox who as a matter of course substitute yelling for civil discourse. But that doesn't mean that a biting comment is per se uncivil provided it is intelligent and not a substitute for a lack of words. And merely tossing out the "L" word (not a reference to the TV show) doesn't suffice as intellectual majesty. The simple question is why are some so concerned about the "unborn" while seeming not to care about seeing that all the ones that are born are fed, clothed, and housed?

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#719385 - 12/07/04 12:01 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
And just where did I say that I would write her nasty e-mails? :rolleyes: And do you think for a minute I thought Larry would supply me with his mother's e-mail address?

(Actually, the thought of discussing Larry with his mother gives me the giggles. I can just imagine the conversation, sort of like one of those where you discuss your child's playmate's bad behavior with the kid's parents).

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#719386 - 12/07/04 12:03 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
And piqu derided his mom's accomplishments and award honoring those accomplishments. [/b]
i did no such thing, gryphon. i questioned the veracity of larry's story. it sounded a little over-the-top to me.
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#719387 - 12/07/04 12:08 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
It read that way, piqu. But questioning Larry's veracity, given his tenure here, is no better. You may not like his bluntness, but he is no liar, and you know that.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#719388 - 12/07/04 12:22 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
um, well, gryphon, i wouldn't call larry a liar. but i have sometimes suspected him of being an embellisher. he's quite capable of hyperbole when he decides to go that route.

and within the context of him getting called on the carpet about behaving badly here, it is suspiciously good timing for him to be producing a nice, whitewashing story about himself and his family.

i have no proof it isn't true, and don't care to investigate further. just pointing out what i see as a curiosity, and people can draw their own conclusions.

if that makes me a meany, so be it. :shrug:
_________________________
piqué

now in paperback:


Grand Obsession: A Piano Odyssey

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#719389 - 12/07/04 12:47 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
Somebody who swore they were leaving, and has been posting up a storm wrote:
 Quote:
And just where did I say that I would write her nasty e-mails? And do you think for a minute I thought Larry would supply me with his mother's e-mail address?
That's the way I took it, the rest of the board took it, and every living, breathing, sentinent being in the known universe who read that trash, took it.

Quit wiggling, Kathy. You did it, you know you did, and you enjoyed it.

And that, ma'am, is your problem.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#719390 - 12/07/04 12:47 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by ossk8ter:
The simple question is why are some so concerned about the "unborn" while seeming not to care about seeing that all the ones that are born are fed, clothed, and housed? [/b]
Who does that?
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#719391 - 12/07/04 12:56 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
um, well, gryphon, i wouldn't call larry a liar. but i have sometimes suspected him of being an embellisher. he's quite capable of hyperbole when he decides to go that route.

and within the context of him getting called on the carpet about behaving badly here, it is suspiciously good timing for him to be producing a nice, whitewashing story about himself and his family.

i have no proof it isn't true, and don't care to investigate further. just pointing out what i see as a curiosity, and people can draw their own conclusions.

if that makes me a meany, so be it. :shrug: [/b]
In other words, I can make a fairly nasty comment about someone's mother, and then toodle off into the sunset.

BTW, pique, we all know who Larry is, and we know the award his mother "alledgedly" received.

Just who are you?

You've spoken much of your journalistic integrity, and it might be fun to poke a few holes in that monololithic bastion of anonimity...
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#719392 - 12/07/04 12:59 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
um, well, gryphon, i wouldn't call larry a liar. but i have sometimes suspected him of being an embellisher. he's quite capable of hyperbole when he decides to go that route.

[/b]
Pique cut the crap. You think he is a "BeeEsser".
_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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