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#719333 - 12/07/04 06:25 AM "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
On the question of civility . . .

Following Frank's announcement that the boards would soon be moderated, a couple of people professed confusion about what standard of civility would be enforced. I was rather surprised to hear that, as I think the line between rudeness and civility is usually quite clear. Then last night, JBryan said something in the other thread that puzzled with me:

 Quote:
There seems to be a lack of understanding here between being civil and being polite. [snip]Whether it is "silly winger" or "would you say, JBryan, that......, would you say, JBryan, that......, would you say, JBryan, that......, would you say, JBryan, that......" ad infinitum it is still uncivil even if it may be dripping with politeness. Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip (others are not nearly so fastidious) but that is far more polite than civil.
I don't read minds, so I don't know just yet precisely what Frank is planning. In my experience here, a couple of principles will serve us well regarding civility. How about these, for starters?

1. If you must address someone, do use their name. Not "Lady," not "you LAWYER," not some crude perversion of their name.

2. If your post is rude, it is no defense to say "But she started it!" I sincerely hope Frank will follow a strict liability rule regarding rudeness -- each of us is strictly responsible for whatever comes out of our keyboard, regardless of what may have provoked our outburst. If two people have a rude exchange, nail them both, because both are polluting the community.

3. If your post is rude, it is no defense to say "But he's a *troll!*" See point number 2.

4. If you are negatively characterizing another PW member rather than their position, you are out of line. Period. That they are not participating in the thread is no excuse -- gossiping right out in public ("Oh, Cindy would hate this thread because she's so very dim") is also out of bounds.

5. I think it is high time some of us did some soulsearching about their habitual practice of insulting others in a veiled manner. If I were to sprinkle in my remarks references to "emergency room quacks," everyone would know precisely to whom I was referring, and it would be just as bothersome as coming right out and calling that person a quack. By now, many of us know various personal details about others -- who is divorced, who is gay, who is a lawyer, who is young, who is a piano dealer, who is relatively uneducated and so forth. How about we decide that the best way to lift up a community is to refrain from pointless and gratuitous smears based on someone's personal circumstances?

There are probably other things that would make sense, and these are only my own opinion, of course. I'm not sure I entirely follow or agree with JBryans' remarks above. I do think that there isn't much difference between being civil and polite. When in doubt, do both.

There. I feel better for having said my piece.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719334 - 12/07/04 07:08 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
Rhetorical browbeating or sneering condescension, while it can be done in a polite manner, is anything but civil.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719335 - 12/07/04 07:19 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
Torn from the pages of the Politically Correct Manifesto--and now posted here for your enlightenment----

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:


1. If you must address someone, do use their name. Not "Lady," not "you LAWYER," not some crude perversion of their name.

2. If your post is rude, it is no defense to say "But she started it!" I sincerely hope Frank will follow a strict liability rule regarding rudeness -- each of us is strictly responsible for whatever comes out of our keyboard, regardless of what may have provoked our outburst. If two people have a rude exchange, nail them both, because both are polluting the community.

3. If your post is rude, it is no defense to say "But he's a *troll!*" See point number 2.

4. If you are negatively characterizing another PW member rather than their position, you are out of line. Period. That they are not participating in the thread is no excuse -- gossiping right out in public ("Oh, Cindy would hate this thread because she's so very dim") is also out of bounds.

5. I think it is high time some of us did some soulsearching about their habitual practice of insulting others in a veiled manner. If I were to sprinkle in my remarks references to "emergency room quacks," everyone would know precisely to whom I was referring, and it would be just as bothersome as coming right out and calling that person a quack. By now, many of us know various personal details about others -- who is divorced, who is gay, who is a lawyer, who is young, who is a piano dealer, who is relatively uneducated and so forth. How about we decide that the best way to lift up a community is to refrain from pointless and gratuitous smears based on someone's personal circumstances?

There are probably other things that would make sense, and these are only my own opinion, of course. I'm not sure I entirely follow or agree with JBryans' remarks above. I do think that there isn't much difference between being civil and polite. When in doubt, do both.

There. I feel better for having said my piece. [/b]
:D \:D \:D

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#719336 - 12/07/04 07:21 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
jkeene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 701
Loc: Central Florida
And now for the words that should really be carved in stone -


 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
Rhetorical browbeating or sneering condescension, while it can be done in a polite manner, is anything but civil. [/b]

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#719337 - 12/07/04 07:31 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
 Quote:


Rhetorical browbeating or sneering condescension, while it can be done in a polite manner, is anything but civil.
I'm afraid I can't agree with this.

I think some people here confuse a clever or effective argument as "browbeating" or "sneering condescension." Someone uses an analogy or takes their position to its logical extension, and rather than expose the flaw in the analogy or comparison, they feel insulted or condescended to, perhaps. Well, maybe it feels awkward to be on the losing end of an argument with everyone watching, but that by itself doesn't make the exchange in any way inappropriate.

Unless you meant something different, JB.

But hey. I think once we get rid of some of the over-the-top stuff that goes on now, we can then sit down and decide if further measures must be taken to deal with "rhetorical browbeating or sneering condescension." One step at a time, one step at a time . . .
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719338 - 12/07/04 07:32 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
There's no shame in apologizing after cooling down when things get nasty. I try to respect everybody, even if I don't agree with them or don't like their personality here. Cindy's suggestings seem to be in the right spirit.
_________________________
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.

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#719339 - 12/07/04 07:39 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
NY1911, I would hold you up as a model of posting behavior and you are one reason why I'd never say that "conservatives" are the ones causing the problems. I've never seen you say the least thing that was in any way offensive, no matter how heated a discussion came, and I genuinely enjoyed our exchanges. So, you know, keep it up, ya hear?

Hey, maybe NY1911 has given me an idea! Perhaps I'll just applaud those who have the civility thing down to an art form.

So, to NY I say
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719340 - 12/07/04 07:43 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by ny1911:
There's no shame in apologizing after cooling down when things get nasty. I try to respect everybody, even if I don't agree with them or don't like their personality here. Cindy's suggestings seem to be in the right spirit. [/b]
No problem here: I have apologized more times than anyone else on this board--Larry's a close second and then there's:

pique: 0 apologies
kathy: 0 apologies

The facts speak for themselves. \:\)

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#719341 - 12/07/04 07:45 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
I think some people here confuse a clever or effective argument as "browbeating" or "sneering condescension." Someone uses an analogy or takes their position to its logical extension, and rather than expose the flaw in the analogy or comparison, they feel insulted or condescended to, perhaps. Well, maybe it feels awkward to be on the losing end of an argument with everyone watching, but that by itself doesn't make the exchange in any way inappropriate. [/b]

You have completely mischaracterized my point, Cindy. Saying, for instance, "Do you think, JBryan, that blah blah or do you think, JBryan, that blah blah do you think, JBryan, that blah blah..." is neither civil, clever nor something I should consider to be an indication of me losing an argument. There are other examples of this, of course, but this is probably the most blatant.

By the way, I am not calling for the moderation or outright proscription of such behavior. I am only trying to point out the difference between politeness and civility. Anyone on this board can engage in rhetorical browbeating or sneering condescension with me any time they choose. They must, however, recognize that I am quite capable of dealing with it in my own (polite) manner.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719342 - 12/07/04 07:50 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
Treat folks nice, and they will be nice in return.

That's not complicated, and it doesn't take a Philadelphia lawyer to decipher.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#719343 - 12/07/04 07:53 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
Rhetorical browbeating or sneering condescension, while it can be done in a polite manner, is anything but civil. [/b]
JB, you lose me on that one. I've seen you turn an array of colors over very staid posts by JA, just because you don't like the content, and when I've called you on it, you've blamned it on his intellectual bankruptcy, (or is that Shant's term), dishonesty and lies, etc. (loosely paraphrased, but I think you'll get my drift). The point is, that all it takes around here to get some of you peoples' dander up,(or is the correct term - your BVDs in a knot) and invectives ahurl is to express a POV.

I had my little steam let-off last night and said what I needed to say. My venting is done. I really like talking to some of you guys, and I miss it, but honestly, I can't take the heat and I am staying out of the kitchen.

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#719344 - 12/07/04 07:57 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:
but honestly, I can't take the heat... [/b]
ooooooooh, little you.

But, you sure can GIVE IT, Toodles!

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#719345 - 12/07/04 08:05 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
 Quote:
You have completely mischaracterized my point, Cindy. Saying, for instance, "Do you think, JBryan, that blah blah or do you think, JBryan, that blah blah do you think, JBryan, that blah blah..." is neither civil, clever nor something I should consider to be an indication of me losing an argument.
I'm being completely honest when I say I genuinely don't get your point, JBryan. So if I somehow mischaracterized it, I can assure you it was unintentional.

I mean, if you and I were discussing abortion and I wrote "Do you think, JBryan, that abortion is murder? If so, JBryan, do you make any exceptions for the life of the mother? Do you think you should make an exception for the health of the mother, JBryan?" I fail to see how this would be especially bothersome. A little needlessly repetitive and choppy, IMHO, but a far cry from objectionable given what transpires here quite regularly. After all, you could reply to me by simply separating each of the questions and addressing the merits of them however you see fit.

Or ignoring me, if you really believe the questioner is simply picking a fight.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719346 - 12/07/04 08:11 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
JB, you lose me on that one. I've seen you turn an array of colors over very staid posts by JA, just because you don't like the content, and when I've called you on it, you've blamned it on his intellectual bankruptcy, (or is that Shant's term), dishonesty and lies, etc.[/b]

Content? Or the way it is presented? What you call "staid" can be interpreted in a lot of ways. However, that being said, presenting the same "content" over and over after it has been rebutted nine different ways from Sunday and never once addressing these rebuttals or even seeming to take notice of them can be easily characterized as "polite" or even "staid". It is anything but civil. It is downright disrespectful as well as (shall I say it?) condescending.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719347 - 12/07/04 08:12 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
jkeene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 701
Loc: Central Florida
An example of politely delivered sneering condescension would something along the lines of "Well, you see, your analysis is a bit simplistic, no? Things are deeper than those data you've presented. I discuss lofty things on another board where we all have a more sophisticated understanding of these things, but I don't believe I shall invite you to join your betters at this time."

A turd sandwich with hollandaise is still a turd sandwich.

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#719348 - 12/07/04 08:16 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
What do you say, Cindy, about the needless slaughter of millions of helpless children.

What do you say, Cindy, about the machine of death that is the abortion industry.

What do you say, Cindy, about the coarsening of our society brought on by this death industry.

What do you say, Cindy, about the loss of respect for human life brought on by this evil paractice.

What do you say, Cindy, about the treachery wrought by women against their unborn infants.

What do you say, Cindy, about the morals of people who would support such treachery.

Polite enough? \:\)
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719349 - 12/07/04 08:17 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
'Sneering condescension'? That's easy. It is a term reserved for foreign posters who question or disagree with US policies. Erginc and I have been charged with this infraction in several instances, as it is quite absurd to refer to either of us as un-American. I do however recall several instances when remarks and observations JA and, more notably Shantinik, were labelled as condescending- so there are exceptions. Now the 'sneering' aspect is new. Perhaps it is the equivalent of assault and battery as opposed to just plain assualt. Does this help clarify the term?
_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#719350 - 12/07/04 08:21 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
 Quote:
"Well, you see, your analysis is a bit simplistic, no? Things are deeper than those data you've presented. I discuss lofty things on another board where we all have a more sophisticated understanding of these things, but I don't believe I shall invite you to join your betters at this time."
With all due respect, your analysis is a bit simplistic. \:\)

Seriously, you've said exactly the opposite of what I believe. I say it is perfectly appropriate to reply to someone and say their analysis is simplistic. Or flawed. Or wrong. Or questionable. Or circular.

Because you are attacking the *views* and not the poster uttering them. If someone offers a *view* and can't handle it if others disagree with the *view,* then I don't know how to help them.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719351 - 12/07/04 08:24 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
I know. This wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Maybe it's a business attitude that helps some see the value in clearing the air once in a while so that grudges don't accumulate. Others probably enjoy the opportunity to confront (perhaps in a nasty way) those they don't agree with. I don't want to change anyone and I don't want to see people leave.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
 Quote:
Originally posted by ny1911:
There's no shame in apologizing after cooling down when things get nasty. I try to respect everybody, even if I don't agree with them or don't like their personality here. Cindy's suggestings seem to be in the right spirit. [/b]
No problem here: I have apologized more times than anyone else on this board--Larry's a close second and then there's:

pique: 0 apologies
kathy: 0 apologies

The facts speak for themselves. \:\) [/b]
_________________________
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.

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#719352 - 12/07/04 08:24 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
JBryan,

Sorry, but having someone use my name again and again doesn't bother me. It looks rather choppy and silly, but I don't consider it rude or otherwise problematic. I would think it strange if a moderator contacted you to say, "JBryan, please delete the word 'Cindy' from each of your questions except one.'"

Maybe it's just me, but I think what you depict is the least of our problems.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719353 - 12/07/04 08:26 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
'Sneering condescension'? That's easy. It is a term reserved for foreign posters who question or disagree with US policies. Erginc and I have been charged with this infraction in several instances, as it is quite absurd to refer to either of us as un-American.[/b]

Actually, no. I have never read anything posted by you that I would Characterize as "sneering condescension" except when it was clearly appropriate (troll, etc.). You, like I, have a tendency to respond in kind to some degree.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719354 - 12/07/04 08:29 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
JBryan,

Sorry, but having someone use my name again and again doesn't bother me. It looks rather choppy and silly, but I don't consider it rude or otherwise problematic. I would think it strange if a moderator contacted you to say, "JBryan, please delete the word 'Cindy' from each of your questions except one.'"

Maybe it's just me, but I think what you depict is the least of our problems. [/b]
Again, you are mischaracterizing my position. I am not suggesting that a moderator do anything about this. It does seem rather odd for you to say that you do not find this uncivil or even rude. I would bet that a majority of people right here on this board would disagree with you on that. I can only imagine your reaction were I to hector you like that face to face.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719355 - 12/07/04 08:35 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
You're a foreign poster Renauda? I thought we owned Alberta? \:D

I've seen what you describe, but I've also seen some from Europe (in general, not the regulars) be very condescending about American ideals (note...not policies). I'm sure we all feel like we are the recipients of the "I'm better than you" attitude at times. I never found JA to be condescending...perhaps extreme. Shantinik was though, IMO.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Renauda:
'Sneering condescension'? That's easy. It is a term reserved for foreign posters who question or disagree with US policies. Erginc and I have been charged with this infraction in several instances, as it is quite absurd to refer to either of us as un-American. I do however recall several instances when remarks and observations JA and, more notably Shantinik, were labelled as condescending- so there are exceptions. Now the 'sneering' aspect is new. Perhaps it is the equivalent of assault and battery as opposed to just plain assualt. Does this help clarify the term? [/b]
_________________________
So live your life and live it well.
There's not much left of me to tell.
I just got back up each time I fell.

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#719356 - 12/07/04 08:36 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
jkeene Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 701
Loc: Central Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
 Quote:
"Well, you see, your analysis is a bit simplistic, no? Things are deeper than those data you've presented. I discuss lofty things on another board where we all have a more sophisticated understanding of these things, but I don't believe I shall invite you to join your betters at this time."
With all due respect, your analysis is a bit simplistic. \:\)

Seriously, you've said exactly the opposite of what I believe. I say it is perfectly appropriate to reply to someone and say their analysis is simplistic. Or flawed. Or wrong. Or questionable. Or circular.

Because you are attacking the *views* and not the poster uttering them. If someone offers a *view* and can't handle it if others disagree with the *view,* then I don't know how to help them. [/b]
Did the tone of the later sentences strike you as wrong? Or the lack of supporting arguments to assist the claim of simplicity cause you to think twice?

I would think that "Your analysis is a bit simplistic, as it doesn't acount for ... (and list them)." would be a far better message to read.

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#719357 - 12/07/04 08:40 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
OK, JBryan. You've given an example of something that you consider rude or inappropriate or uncivil, and I was kind of indicating that this strikes me as small potatoes compared to calling someone "Bendover" or addressing them by some other name than the one they prefer. Maybe you are in the majority. If so, great -- we can perhaps all agree never to use someone's name more than once in the same message, but I think that is unnecessary and OTT.

Yes, civility is a continuum. But there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. It is crossed here all the time. I figured maybe some discussion might help that line become a bit brighter for some people.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719358 - 12/07/04 08:43 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:
dishonesty and lies, etc...that all it takes around here to get some of you peoples' dander up and invectives ahurl is to express a POV.[/b]
Hey, saying someone is expressing dishonesty and lies is fair game.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#719359 - 12/07/04 08:44 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Jkeene,

Yes, I agree that supporting arguments (preferably really good ones!) are important to substantiate any attack on someone else's views. I thought that was understood, though.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#719360 - 12/07/04 08:44 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Ben - said he took no offense - why should you?

What is dangerous about some of the recent attacks on Larry, is that attacks were solicited and used from trolls who would hurt the integrity of the forum..

y'all need to sit back and think before you come back swinging again..

please.. it is so tiresome, juvenile, emotional and irrational. You ladies are completely ruining this place. We want it civil.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#719361 - 12/07/04 08:49 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
jodi Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 6959
Loc: The Evergreen State (WA)
You know, I've seen what JBryan is talking about - everything from a sort of veiled condescension, to down right sneering. From people I happen to like for the most part. I find it annoying, so I imagine someone who really disagrees with the poster would find it downright rude.

It usually happens in the threads that get really heated - where the polar opposite opinions reside, and there isn't a showballs chance that anyone will change anybody elses mind. But people keep hammering away, restating their opinion in a thousand different ways, cutting, and pasting, and posting, until someone finally blows a fuse.

\:\) Jodi

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#719362 - 12/07/04 08:50 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ny1911 Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2238
Loc: New York
This is probably it in a nutshell. Depending on each walk of life, interactions are very different. What is posted here is often over the line relative to what I am used to in my professional interactions, but probably wimpy to an army platoon. In a real coffee shop you get all sort of discussions...you choose where to sit.

 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:

Yes, civility is a continuum. But there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. It is crossed here all the time. [/b]
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#719363 - 12/07/04 09:01 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Apple:

 Quote:
Ben - said he took no offense - why should you?
So if someone calls me "N-word," and I say I'm not offended, that makes it OK? Calling people names pollutes the community, even if the victim decides to be gracious about it.

 Quote:
What is dangerous about some of the recent attacks on Larry, is that attacks were solicited and used from trolls who would hurt the integrity of the forum.
Apple, I don't understand your point. Larry *invited* a discussion of his virtues as moderator. I think it a little late to complain that people actually said what they thought of the idea.

Regarding trolls . . . I don't understand this argument at all, really. If someone you have decided is a troll shows up and quotes me or JBryan or NY1911 in this thread, that somehow transforms our appropriate expressions of our opinions into something inappropriate?

Can you elaborate?
_________________________
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#719364 - 12/07/04 09:03 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
JB--What the HELL have you been saying to these people? \:D

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#719365 - 12/07/04 09:06 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
I had my little steam let-off last night and said what I needed to say. My venting is done. I really like talking to some of you guys, and I miss it, but honestly, I can't take the heat and I am staying out of the kitchen.[/b]

"Little steam let-off"??????

Let me tell you about your "little steam letoff". I started what was intended to be a nice thread to commend us all for the polite and friendly tone we've enjoyed lately, and to apologize for my part in any of the past bitterness. You jumped in within minutes with the most vile, bitter, nasty attacks I've ever seen out of *anyone* on this forum, tearing through the place like a Mack truck running through a china shop. You have insulted me, offended me, you have openly admitted that all you care about is politics, not the people, you have openly stated that you "don't need the Coffee Room", you have openly stated that you "frankly, don't give a .......".

I'm amazed that anyone is even having a conversation with you.

My intent here was to promote good will, and to be nice. I have to tell you, and the "you" I'm referring to is the group at large - I cannot believe that you have been allowed to skirt around your vile and destructive comments in this thread, much less get away with your hateful remarks in the thread about my Mother. If you don't get called on the carpet any more than I'm seeing so far, I'm finished with this place. You've won. Bitterness, rudeness, hostility, and political mean spiritedness has won.
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#719366 - 12/07/04 09:10 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Apple, I don't understand your point. Larry *invited* a discussion of his virtues as moderator.[/b]

Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with. I never "invited" anything regarding my "virtues as a moderator". I offered to *be* one, and made it clear from the start that there should be several. After suffering repeated attacks from those who dislike me because of their political views, I withdrew my offer to volunteer.

What is it that you can't keep track of things like this?
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#719367 - 12/07/04 09:31 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
we can perhaps all agree never to use someone's name more than once in the same message, but I think that is unnecessary and OTT.[/b]

Please, that is beside the point and you know it. Clearly I do not take issue with the number of times a person's name is used. I could use the same construction as before only telling you that you are witty, intelligent, charming, with a great sense of humor (all true, BTW) but that would clearly not be a problem now would it.
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#719368 - 12/07/04 09:31 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Larry:

 Quote:
Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with. I never "invited" anything regarding my "virtues as a moderator". I offered to *be* one, and made it clear from the start that there should be several. After suffering repeated attacks from those who dislike me because of their political views, I withdrew my offer to volunteer.

What is it that you can't keep track of things like this?
Once again, we open with a personal attack. Can you see the problem with speaking to people in this way, Larry? For one thing, it makes it harder for you to swallow those words when you are proved wrong, which is what I am about to do.

Larry, with all due respect, my characterization of that 15-page thread is spot-on. Yes, you initially simply volunteered. Then some people began endorsing you, saying they'd "vote" for you. The train was picking up speed.

Then others said they would *not* vote for you and said why.

And that is when you explicitly invited people to comment on your fitness for the job.

Larry wrote these words to me as I expressed reluctance to comment:

"Cindy, feel free to publicly post that you think I'm a lousy choice, that's fine. Later today, I'd like to address this issue of "can't even moderate himself". I think some people are letting their own biases cloud their thinking.

If I'm not "elected" it isn't going to hurt my feelings."[/b]

That is on page 5 of that 15-page monstrosity.

Larry, you pledged civility just last night. Is there any chance now that your recollection has been refreshed that you'll apologize for attacking me just now and admit that you did in fact explicitly invite a discussion of your virtues as moderator?
_________________________
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#719369 - 12/07/04 09:44 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
ad hominem attack alert!

 Quote:
Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with.
cindy, maybe this is what we need to do to clearly communicate what we mean by civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise.
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#719370 - 12/07/04 09:55 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
ad hominem attack alert!

 Quote:
Cindy, it amazes me how completely out of touch you manage to be on just about everything you are faced with.
cindy, maybe this is what we need to do to clearly communicate what we mean by civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise. [/b]
For what it's worth, cindy will always pass muster--pique, you nasty little thing, may not. :p

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#719371 - 12/07/04 10:13 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
:p :p :p :p :p :p to you too, tom.
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#719372 - 12/07/04 10:14 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise. [/b]
"Larry, is your mother proud of *you*? Never mind. Don't answer that. Just send me her e-mail address."
_________________________
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#719373 - 12/07/04 10:15 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
QuirtEvans Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
"I say it is perfectly appropriate to reply to someone and say their analysis is simplistic. Or flawed. Or wrong. Or questionable. Or circular."

Cindy, I hate to say it, but you're on a slippery slope here. That principle doesn't work.

How about if someone said, your views are idiotic? How about, that argument is moronic? How about if someone said, that opinion is stupid and worthless and not worthy of intelligent discussion? These are statements about the argument or the views, not about the person, but they are highly insulting. They lead to personal attacks and flame wars. They should be out of bounds, too.
_________________________
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#719374 - 12/07/04 10:30 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Renauda Offline
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Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
I agree with QuirtEvans on this. I would add that the slope is getting more slippery and the air icier by the moment.
_________________________
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#719375 - 12/07/04 10:40 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
Apple:
 Quote:
Ben - said he took no offense - why should you?
Apple, in all honesty, do you think it's acceptable to address a thirteen year old like this?

"Man, are *you* ever a freaking moron!"

"You can't move anywhere, Bendover. Your Mommy won't let you. You couldn't buy the gas to get to Canada from Texas, much less buy a cottage when you got there. You're just a punk kid who doesn't have a clue. Just one more snot nosed kid that has never had to work a day in his life, sucking off his mommy and daddy.
But let me join with those who have welcomed you to take your sorry little *** and get out of the US. Maybe you can save your allowance money until you can afford a bus ticket.
Of course, promise me you'll stay once you leave, and I'll buy the ticket for you."

"You see this little t*t sucker as mature?"


"All right, look here you stupid ****ing moron, I looked at your stupid ****ing chart and I cannot find in it one example of what could be fairly described as a deliberate misrepresentation of fact. There are a lot of intelligence estimates that turned out not to be correct but we already know about the problems with our intelligence community. None of these, however, is a lie. In other words, and I'm typing slowly here so even a stupid ****ing moron like yourself will understand, none of these were statements made with full knowledge that they were wrong at the time they were made. I don't mind having a debate about issues but you are in way over your head and I'm all done trying to sort ou your stupid ****ing point of view. "

"You left something out, moron."

Apple, I've got a thirteen year old step-son. I would not be happy about him being spoken to like this wether he said he was offended or not. He's THIRTEEN.

I know kids should not be here unattended/unsupervised but that's beside the point. Those standards are unacceptable to me.

Btw, I've left out the names of the posters because at least one but not all, made a subsequent effort to treat Ben in a more civil manner.
_________________________
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#719376 - 12/07/04 10:52 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I don't approve of rudeness to anyone. That behavior is inappropriate, I agree. The point has been made at least 50 times and I agree with it each time....

however on the other hand, I don't know that it is right to garner partisan resentment against a poster, using the age of a 13 yr. old as fuel, and have that resentment serve ill ends. What happened in the anti-Larry tyrade is that a whole bunch of piano trolls jumped on Larry at certain peoples' prodding to the detriment of the forum.
That's not right. It's not right that people insult mothers who aren't here or that people I don't even know send me private messages bemoaning my behavior. I think I'm pretty fair and civil.

there's alot of other things I don't like but I have probably already stated them.

I like everyone arguing and engaging in debate.. We used to do it well before the election results erupted like an infected pimple. I hope it'll settle down because y'all have me quite upset.

The only thing I can do is practice.. tata
_________________________
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#719377 - 12/07/04 11:02 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I hope it'll settle down because y'all have me quite upset.
[/b]
hmmmmm..........................
_________________________
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http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#719378 - 12/07/04 11:24 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I like everyone arguing and engaging in debate.. We used to do it well before the election results erupted like an infected pimple. I hope it'll settle down because y'all have me quite upset.
[/b]
Well I would say it started going septic when the troops who went into Iraq couldn't find the infamous MWD and was downright gangrous by the election. No one realized the smell of almonds until about three weeks after Shantinik (the only person who I can honestly say I truly miss in this joint- whether or not I agreed with his points) pulled the plug. Even then the smell of rot was mistaken for icing sugar.
_________________________
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#719379 - 12/07/04 11:27 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
apple, how can you read the posts that lucy quoted, knowing full well who made them, say that you disapprove of those posts, and yet endorse the poster to be a moderator? it boggles the mind.
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#719380 - 12/07/04 11:34 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
I'd just like to point out something to all you den mothers: In one CR thread, in one night, there were more posts than all the Tea Room threads combined. And a nasty sucker, it was.

Actions do speak louder than words....
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#719381 - 12/07/04 11:38 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
civil and uncivil. give the examples as they arise. [/b]
"Larry, is your mother proud of *you*? Never mind. Don't answer that. Just send me her e-mail address." [/b]
If that's my worst offense, I feel quite vindicated. BTW, to whomever suggested it, I did not insult Larry's mother in that thread, either.

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#719382 - 12/07/04 11:46 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ycul Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/04
Posts: 1402
Loc: U.K.
 Quote:
however on the other hand, I don't know that it is right to garner partisan resentment against a poster, using the age of a 13 yr. old as fuel, and have that resentment serve ill ends.
Apple, I'm not garnering partisan support against a poster. a) There's more than one and b)That's why I left out the names and I mentioned that at least one had tried to make ammends.
The point I'm making is that when there is a child on the forum we have a responsibility to moderate our behaviour considerably not speak to him/her in the style above.

Sorry if I've upset you mate! I know you don't disagree with any of this in principle.

Edit:If we're all talking too much and need to take action I suggest we start with Quirt's advice over in the other thread.
I'm up for it.
_________________________
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#719383 - 12/07/04 11:48 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
Kathy, you kept telling Larry to give you his mom's email address so you could write her nasty emails about Larry. And piqu derided his mom's accomplishments and award honoring her for them.
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#719384 - 12/07/04 11:58 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
ossk8ter Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 453
Loc: Dallas
I don't think that the members of the Piano Forum are best suited to act like the talking heads on CNN and Fox who as a matter of course substitute yelling for civil discourse. But that doesn't mean that a biting comment is per se uncivil provided it is intelligent and not a substitute for a lack of words. And merely tossing out the "L" word (not a reference to the TV show) doesn't suffice as intellectual majesty. The simple question is why are some so concerned about the "unborn" while seeming not to care about seeing that all the ones that are born are fed, clothed, and housed?

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#719385 - 12/07/04 12:01 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
And just where did I say that I would write her nasty e-mails? :rolleyes: And do you think for a minute I thought Larry would supply me with his mother's e-mail address?

(Actually, the thought of discussing Larry with his mother gives me the giggles. I can just imagine the conversation, sort of like one of those where you discuss your child's playmate's bad behavior with the kid's parents).

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#719386 - 12/07/04 12:03 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
And piqu derided his mom's accomplishments and award honoring those accomplishments. [/b]
i did no such thing, gryphon. i questioned the veracity of larry's story. it sounded a little over-the-top to me.
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#719387 - 12/07/04 12:08 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
It read that way, piqu. But questioning Larry's veracity, given his tenure here, is no better. You may not like his bluntness, but he is no liar, and you know that.
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#719388 - 12/07/04 12:22 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
um, well, gryphon, i wouldn't call larry a liar. but i have sometimes suspected him of being an embellisher. he's quite capable of hyperbole when he decides to go that route.

and within the context of him getting called on the carpet about behaving badly here, it is suspiciously good timing for him to be producing a nice, whitewashing story about himself and his family.

i have no proof it isn't true, and don't care to investigate further. just pointing out what i see as a curiosity, and people can draw their own conclusions.

if that makes me a meany, so be it. :shrug:
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#719389 - 12/07/04 12:47 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
Somebody who swore they were leaving, and has been posting up a storm wrote:
 Quote:
And just where did I say that I would write her nasty e-mails? And do you think for a minute I thought Larry would supply me with his mother's e-mail address?
That's the way I took it, the rest of the board took it, and every living, breathing, sentinent being in the known universe who read that trash, took it.

Quit wiggling, Kathy. You did it, you know you did, and you enjoyed it.

And that, ma'am, is your problem.
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#719390 - 12/07/04 12:47 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by ossk8ter:
The simple question is why are some so concerned about the "unborn" while seeming not to care about seeing that all the ones that are born are fed, clothed, and housed? [/b]
Who does that?
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#719391 - 12/07/04 12:56 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
um, well, gryphon, i wouldn't call larry a liar. but i have sometimes suspected him of being an embellisher. he's quite capable of hyperbole when he decides to go that route.

and within the context of him getting called on the carpet about behaving badly here, it is suspiciously good timing for him to be producing a nice, whitewashing story about himself and his family.

i have no proof it isn't true, and don't care to investigate further. just pointing out what i see as a curiosity, and people can draw their own conclusions.

if that makes me a meany, so be it. :shrug: [/b]
In other words, I can make a fairly nasty comment about someone's mother, and then toodle off into the sunset.

BTW, pique, we all know who Larry is, and we know the award his mother "alledgedly" received.

Just who are you?

You've spoken much of your journalistic integrity, and it might be fun to poke a few holes in that monololithic bastion of anonimity...
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#719392 - 12/07/04 12:59 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
um, well, gryphon, i wouldn't call larry a liar. but i have sometimes suspected him of being an embellisher. he's quite capable of hyperbole when he decides to go that route.

[/b]
Pique cut the crap. You think he is a "BeeEsser".
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#719393 - 12/07/04 01:02 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
i made no comment about larry's mother. i made an implied comment about larry.

and you've spoken much of your experiences in the world of medicine without telling us exactly what you do, jolly. neurosurgeon? or janitor in the er?

we're each entitled to as much or as little anonymity as we wish.
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#719394 - 12/07/04 01:03 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
whatever you say, renauda. \:D
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#719395 - 12/07/04 01:06 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by piqu:
i made no comment about larry's mother. i made an implied comment about larry.

and you've spoken much of your experiences in the world of medicine without telling us exactly what you do, jolly. neurosurgeon? or janitor in the er?

we're each entitled to as much or as little anonymity as we wish. [/b]
Oh, I've already said I sweep the floors, pique.

Btw, still enjoying your bootleg piano?
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#719396 - 12/07/04 01:10 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
piqué Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 5483
i adore my piano, thanks for asking. and thanks for your concern, but the manufacturer has backed up the warranty and vouched for the legitimacy of the dealer. \:\)
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#719397 - 12/07/04 01:28 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:

(Actually, the thought of discussing Larry with his mother gives me the giggles. I can just imagine the conversation, sort of like one of those where you discuss your child's playmate's bad behavior with the kid's parents). [/b]
And the parents tell you to shut up and mind your own damn business.

Personally, I'd love for you to email Larry's mother - or to snail mail her, if she isn't a computer person - and to publicly post the correspondence back and forth.

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#719398 - 12/07/04 01:35 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
Exactly! \:D

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#719399 - 12/07/04 01:45 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
QuirtEvans Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 978
Loc: U.S.A.
Kathy, I was contemplating your signature line, and wishing that you'd been thinking about that last night.

Can we all agree to pretend that last night never happened, after Larry's original post? Please?
_________________________
If you use lines like "a hyena with hiccups", you might be a redneck.

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#719400 - 12/07/04 02:02 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
Can we all agree to pretend that last night never happened[/b]
Don't think that's going to fly very well.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#719401 - 12/07/04 03:35 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Mozart1969 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 276
Loc: Stresa, Italy
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
Kathy, you kept telling Larry to give you his mom's email address so you could write her nasty emails about Larry. And piqu derided his mom's accomplishments and award honoring her for them. [/b]
Don't speak for her. Only she knows what she wanted his mom's e-mail for! I don't think for one minute she would want it for the reason YOU (not the person who said it) wrote above.
_________________________
Je lieber moecht'ich in Himmel sein!

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#719402 - 12/07/04 06:14 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
phykell Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/22/02
Posts: 697
Loc: UK
 Quote:
Originally posted by ycul:The point I'm making is that when there is a child on the forum we have a responsibility to moderate our behaviour considerably not speak to him/her in the style above.[/b]
I completely agree and I'll go further. I believe we should assume that children read these fora, and we should moderate our language and our treatment of each other accordingly. As far as I'm concerned, there is never any excuse for being anything less than civil. I can't believe what's been happening in the CR lately... \:\(
_________________________
If you vote me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

========

Evil cannot be conquered in the world. It can only be resisted within oneself.

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#719403 - 12/07/04 07:22 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mozart1969:
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
Kathy, you kept telling Larry to give you his mom's email address so you could write her nasty emails about Larry. And piqu derided his mom's accomplishments and award honoring her for them. [/b]
Don't speak for her. Only she knows what she wanted his mom's e-mail for! I don't think for one minute she would want it for the reason YOU (not the person who said it) wrote above. [/b]
After Kathy's posts in the last 24 hours, if you think she wanted that email for the good of mankind, there ain't a cow in Texas.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#719404 - 12/07/04 09:06 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
Jack Frost Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 4454
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Bitterness, rudeness, hostility, and political mean spiritedness has won. [/b]
Sorry Larry but I think that you have been as bitter, rude and hostile as anyone here...at times...and you have also been generous, witty, warm and kind.

I can't figure it out....Can you?

jf
_________________________
"Make the pie higher." GWB

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#719405 - 12/07/04 09:39 PM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
I am trying tom remember the "generous, witty, and warm" posts by kathyk but I seem to be coming up short. I have no doubt that she is capable of doing them but she seems to have been preoccupied with the black bile missives of late.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#719406 - 12/08/04 04:56 AM Re: "I Got Your Civility Right Here, Pal!"
fmelliott Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 894
Loc: Virginia
These forums really are begining to sicken me as well.

For decency's sake shut up about each other!

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