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#723005 - 06/20/03 08:39 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
Or a lesbian, a turkey baster, and a gay guy down the hall. :p
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#723006 - 06/20/03 08:39 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by rvaga:
[QUOTE] The discussion is interesting, but yes, I'm starting to tremble over the scripture lessons, the "we call God Godde" nonsense, and the endless age-old debate of whether a camel's humps get caught going through the eye of a needle.[/b]
Good post. Could I interest you in a discourse of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? It is just as relevant to the topic of the thread as the last points you described. I too share your trembling.
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#723007 - 06/20/03 08:41 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Oh, Boo Hoo, TomK. There's nothing intolerant there. Try again.
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"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#723008 - 06/20/03 08:51 PM Re: The Disney Smear
TomK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 2611
 Quote:
Oh, Boo Hoo, TomK.[/b]
I think so, and you're a bigot.

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#723009 - 06/20/03 08:55 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
rvaga:
 Quote:
Who would decide (government agency. . . ), and based on what criteria??
I do hope for the sake of the children that it is based on science, not belief of whatever sort.

I must admit I used to feel less than 100% comfortable about gays having children but after some reflection realised that my feeling was based on the memories and experiences (those that I cherish) I had as a child and concluded that mine was a very centrist viewpoint. I also realised that it would be little different than a child being raised by a single parent, male or female.

------
Well, TomK, I'm not going to take your word for it. :p
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#723010 - 06/20/03 09:03 PM Re: The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by Peggy:
STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT![/b]
If anyone should be angry shouldn't it be me? I started this thread about a political issue, remember? You and a couple of others hijacked it, but you don't see me complaining because that's the way things go here in Algore's invention. So don't get angry because people responded to your posts the way you don't want them to.

And Oscar, LE, LP, and whomever, the question was is Pryor a homohater because he didn't want his little girls to see THIS[/b] and THIS[/b] at Disney World?
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#723011 - 06/20/03 09:16 PM Re: The Disney Smear
TomK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 2611
 Quote:
Posted by Bernard: Well, TomK, I'm not going to take your word for it.[/b]
The problem with you Bernard is that you have a closed mind. Open yourself up tto the fact that you're intolerant and a whole new world will open up to you.

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#723012 - 06/20/03 09:17 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Jolly Offline
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Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
Jolly, lurching back to the original topic...

Nah, he's not a homophobe, it's much, much worse.

He's a Republican, and a Conservative. (the dreaded triple EEK!!)

Note some of these silly questions: http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york062003.asp
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#723013 - 06/20/03 09:19 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
[QUOTE] ...you don't see me complaining because that's the way things go here in Algore's invention.[/b]


"Algore's invention[/b] or Tipper's?"
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"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#723014 - 06/20/03 09:36 PM Re: The Disney Smear
LadyElton Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 521
Loc: Southeastern Pennsylvania
I didn't call the guy a homophobe. If he doesn't want his kids to see that, then take them to DW any of the other 364 days of the year. I personally don't care for the people who feel they must be the extreme of whatever group they're in - sexuality, race, religion, nationality, etc. Then again, that's their peragative. However, some people should not wear certain types of clothes if they have a certain body build. ;\)

LadyElton
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#723015 - 06/20/03 09:37 PM Re: The Disney Smear
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
 Quote:
Bernard:
I do hope for the sake of the children that it is based on science, not belief of whatever sort.

I must admit I used to feel less than 100% comfortable about gays having children but after some reflection realised that my feeling was based on the memories and experiences (those that I cherish) I had as a child and concluded that mine was a very centrist viewpoint. I also realised that it would be little different than a child being raised by a single parent, male or female.
[/b]
What science????

And, is your point that because miserable, unfortunate and messed-up kids are found in heterosexual homes of abusive parent(s), alchoholics, abusers, parents that ignore their kids, whatever other reasons -- that the issue of whether gay/lesbians should be able to adopt kids or raise their kids from a previous marriage, doesn't matter?

And in your honest presentation of your background/lifestyle, how do you answer the question of whether being gay is genetic, or choice? Or, can the answer be either/or?

I do appreciate your honesty and your guts in standing up for what you believe, and who you are as a person.

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#723016 - 06/20/03 09:41 PM Re: The Disney Smear
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Renauda:
Could I interest you in a discourse of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? [/b]
That's easy. All of them.
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#723017 - 06/20/03 09:51 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Renauda:
Could I interest you in a discourse of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? [/b]
That's easy. All of them.[/b]
Gee, you're no fun any more. \:\(
_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#723018 - 06/20/03 09:55 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
LE wrote:
 Quote:
I didn't call the guy a homophobe. If he doesn't want his kids to see that, then take them to DW any of the other 364 days of the year.
If this is the attitude of the homosexual community, then it is doomed to non-acceptance forever.

I'd think again.
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#723019 - 06/20/03 09:55 PM Re: The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by Renauda:
Gee, you're no fun...[/b]
...you fell right over.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
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#723020 - 06/20/03 09:59 PM Re: The Disney Smear
LadyElton Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 521
Loc: Southeastern Pennsylvania
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
LE wrote:
 Quote:
I didn't call the guy a homophobe. If he doesn't want his kids to see that, then take them to DW any of the other 364 days of the year.
If this is the attitude of the homosexual community, then it is doomed to non-acceptance forever.

I'd think again.[/b]
I don't see how in the Goddess' name that was intolerant. I didn't say he had to accept it or not. All I said is that if he doesn't want his kids to see it then all he has to do is go on any other day. I personally don't give a rat's ass if he accepts it or not. If I were heterosexual, I would feel the exact same way. It has nothing to do with my being gay.

LadyElton
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#723021 - 06/20/03 10:01 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
Originally posted by Jolly:
 Quote:
LE wrote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't call the guy a homophobe. If he doesn't want his kids to see that, then take them to DW any of the other 364 days of the year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If this is the attitude of the homosexual community, then it is doomed to non-acceptance forever.

I'd think again. [/b]
Why, Jolly? I don't get it.
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If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
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#723022 - 06/20/03 10:07 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
Originally posted by Renauda,
 Quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JBryan:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Renauda:
Could I interest you in a discourse of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JBryan:

That's easy. All of them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Renauda again:

Gee, you're no fun any more. [/b]
OK, Renauda. I think it depends on whether the angels are gay, bi or hetero...
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#723023 - 06/20/03 10:08 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
rvaga,
 Quote:
What science????

And, is your point that because miserable, unfortunate and messed-up kids are found in heterosexual homes of abusive parent(s), alchoholics, abusers, parents that ignore their kids, whatever other reasons -- that the issue of whether gay/lesbians should be able to adopt kids or raise their kids from a previous marriage, doesn't matter?

And in your honest presentation of your background/lifestyle, how do you answer the question of whether being gay is genetic, or choice? Or, can the answer be either/or?

I do appreciate your honesty and your guts in standing up for what you believe, and who you are as a person.
I science I mean is the science that goes on in psychology departments, clinical labs, etc. all the time. I am sure I have read of studies concluding that the children of gay parents are as well-adjusted as the general population, on average, and even that they tend to me more tolerent than average.

I think it does matter and I believe current studies indicate that these children lead happy, well-adjusted lives.

From my life experience I do not know the answer to whether or not homosexuality is genetic. I would not be surprised if they discover that certain types of homosexuality are genetic, and I would not be surprised if they find that some are from the "environment". Like I said, I don't think there is just one type of homosexuality or one type of heterosexuality and I have known too many people who were mixed. Like I stated over a year ago in a different thread, I have undertaken an inner journey and it is one that has reaped many rewards and benefits, regardless what I ultimately discover.

And thank you.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#723024 - 06/20/03 10:23 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
We do not all find ourselves there! I for one do not believe in original sin and do not believe in the same type of God as yourself.

Your answer seems to be that homosexuals must accept a celibate life...[/b]
Correct Bernard, my comments are based on my personal worldview. In my opinion, we are all in the position I'ved described, whether everyone agrees with it or not. Just because others don't agree with everything that you think, doesn't mean that you don't still see the world through your belief system. Sorry if the implied "IMO" threw you for a loop.

My answer is that for homosexuals to adhere to God's commandment regarding their sexuality, they would have to remain celibate, yes. But I further believe that in order for someone to adhere to God's commandments regarding other aspects of their lives, they would have to refrain from being selfish, or full of self-pride, or always be perfectly truthful, or celibate if not married, or... in short, to never sin. This is obviously impossible, for any of us, in so many areas of our lives and regarding so many of God's instructions, not only regarding our sexuality. No one meets the criteria. That's my point.

So yes, we will have to agree to disagree whether homosexual acts are a sin. I believe that God's attitude is pretty clear that it is, but, as I said before, I don't see it as a more egregious sin than me noticing a super sexy woman in a thong bikini on the beach. While I understand that this is a sin in God's eyes, and an act for which I rely on God's grace to reset my relationship with God, I do not accept that my inherently sinful nature - or that of a gay man engaging in homosexual behavior - makes me deserving of less respect as a human being, or deserving of a deprivation of my civil rights. I do not judge the gay man's sin to be any "greater" than my own. But I do consider it to be sin, in accordance with the teachings of my faith. I'm sorry if that offends, I don't mean it to. But that's my belief: it's sin, but it's no worse a sin than many other things that people engage in every day and consider to be no big deal - and it's certainly not a sin that should make a gay person a pariah to others. In fact, treating a gay person as an outcast is as big a sin as the sin the person is supposedly upset about. We all live in the same glass house; throwing stones at each other only indicates a mistaken, unwise, and sinful attitude of superiority.

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#723025 - 06/20/03 10:25 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Renauda:
Gee, you're no fun...[/b]
...you fell right over.[/b]
Wait, wait, wait, I know...

Let's stand him on his head! \:\)

Anyone who knows that line is OK in my book!

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#723026 - 06/20/03 10:40 PM Re: The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by LadyElton:
All I said is that if he doesn't want his kids to see it then all he has to do is go on any other day. I personally don't give a rat's ass if he accepts it or not. [/b]
So you don't think there's anything wrong with little girls or little boys seeing this[/b] in public? That's what's wrong with the homosexual agenda.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#723027 - 06/20/03 10:43 PM Re: The Disney Smear
LadyElton Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 521
Loc: Southeastern Pennsylvania
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
 Quote:
Originally posted by LadyElton:
All I said is that if he doesn't want his kids to see it then all he has to do is go on any other day. I personally don't give a rat's ass if he accepts it or not. [/b]
So you don't think there's anything wrong with little girls or little boys seeing this[/b] in public? That's what's wrong with the homosexual agenda.[/b]
It's not my decision. That's their parents' choice.
_________________________
Hilary aka LadyElton

********************

Check out my blog

"Looking like a true survivor..."
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#723028 - 06/20/03 10:45 PM Re: The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by LadyElton/gryphon/LadyElton:
All I said is that if he doesn't want his kids to see it then all he has to do is go on any other day. I personally don't give a rat's ass if he accepts it or not.

So you don't think there's anything wrong with little girls or little boys seeing this[/b] in public? That's what's wrong with the homosexual agenda.

It's not my decision. That's their parents' choice. Gotta love the 'homosexual agenda' bullshit. Christ. :rolleyes: [/b]
Q.E.D.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#723029 - 06/20/03 10:52 PM Re: The Disney Smear
LadyElton Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 521
Loc: Southeastern Pennsylvania
**** happens.
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Hilary aka LadyElton

********************

Check out my blog

"Looking like a true survivor..."
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#723030 - 06/20/03 10:58 PM Re: The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by LadyElton:
**** happens.[/b]
Q.E.D.^2?
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#723031 - 06/20/03 11:03 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
This thread has certainly gone to hell in a handbasket.


 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
LE wrote:
 Quote:
I didn't call the guy a homophobe. If he doesn't want his kids to see that, then take them to DW any of the other 364 days of the year.
If this is the attitude of the homosexual community, then it is doomed to non-acceptance forever.

I'd think again.[/b]
I'm with LE on this one. What is so intolerant about her statement? If I didn't want my kids to see what goes on at Mardi Gras and you said to me, "take them to New Orleans in June." Am I to conclude from that statement that you are saying "tough sh*t if you don't like what goes on during Mardi Gras"?

FWIW, there are 604 pictures of Gay Day on the website Gryphon got those pictures from. And I, looked at each and every one of them and put a hash mark, |, for every picture that made me feel uncomfortable and an X for every picture I felt was borderline X-rated. I counted a total of 19 pictures I was "uncomfortable with" and 3 that I felt were borderline X-rated. Two of the borderline X pictures were the ones Gryphon put in his post.

And, I should mention, that those 3 x-rated pictures appear to have come from a production that Disney World put on themselves - not the attendees of Gay Day.

Of the 16 remaining pics that made me uncomfortable, they ranged from guys being a little too cozy with each other, to swim trunks that were a little too revealing. The worst Gay Day attendee pic was one that showed a simulated sex act.

So let's put this in perspective, of the 600+ pictures I saw of Gay Day, 3% of them made me "uncomfortable". Gryphon picked two of the 3 worst photos thereby implying that that's what you'll see everywhere you turn during Gay Day.

Not so.

What you will see is a lot of pumped-up gym bunnies, with no shirts, frequently posing for pitures with their arms around each other's waist. What's the big deal about that? For the most part, it basically was just like any other day at Disney World, except that there were a disproportionate number of shirtless men walking around with other shirtless men.

Now let me tell you about the Mardi Gras pictures. I saw approximately 50 pictures. Everyone of them was x-rated. Forget revealing swim trunks, hell these people were naked. And simulated sex acts? Oh no, this was the real, sodomnist sex acts Right in the ctner of Bourbon Street.

100% of the photos of Mardi Gras were absolutely disgusting compared with 3% of the photos at Gay Day that even the worst of them, were tame compared to Mardi Gras. What does that lead me to conclude about the residents of New Orleans?

Gay Day was, pardon the pun, Mickey Mouse compared to Mardi Gras.

Still, I wouldn't take my kids to Gay Day. And no, the guy who chose to go another day is not necessarily a homophobe - not quite sure what a homophobe is, but whatever.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. This thread probably will be on page 8 by the time I get up tomorrow.

Derick
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#723032 - 06/20/03 11:10 PM Re: The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by Derick:
This thread has certainly gone to hell in a handbasket.[/b]
Yes, it has. The original question was 'does not wanting your small children to see Gay Day at Disney World make you a homo-hater?'
 Quote:
I wouldn't take my kids to Gay Day. [/b]
You radical right-wing homo-hater you!
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#723033 - 06/20/03 11:17 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
 Quote:
Originally posted by gryphon:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Derick:
This thread has certainly gone to hell in a handbasket.
[/b]
It's going to get worse I tell you...

_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#723034 - 06/20/03 11:26 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
gryphon, that last post of yours is a nice attempt at revisionism but anyone who takes the time to go back to the top of this thread will see for themselves that it has not unfolded as you are trying to make it out. In fact the first page and a half, maybe more, is a very level headed discussion, with a few exceptions.

LE's first post in this thread was very well presented and she has subsequently carried herself in a way that does not merit your lashing out.

While I was just re-reading the thread, I came across this which you posted (emphasis mine):

 Quote:
The article included the links to *some* photos (there are others on that site that are actually worse)[/b] to show people just exactly[/b] what it was referring to. This stops people from getting the wrong idea about the event, and someone just thinking "what's the big deal about some gay people being at the park at the same time?" In reality it is a large, public, in-your-face, often pornographic event that no one, especially small children, should be subjected to.[/b] And Feingold tried to paint Pryor as a homo-hater because he didn't want his little girls to see it.
So on top of being less-than honest at the outset, you went on to use inflammatory language to portray homosexuals as pornographic and in-your-face.
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