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#722825 - 06/18/03 09:29 AM The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
A goofy tactic used against a Bush judicial nominee.[/b]

Senate Democrats are bent on keeping as many of President Bush's conservative nominees to federal courts off their intended benches as they can get away with, and are using whatever they can to demonize each one of them. Judge Charles Pickering of Mississippi is a racist, according to the script. Texas Supreme Court Justice Priscilla Owen is an anti-choice extremist. Miguel Estrada is not Hispanic enough. Their latest target is Alabama attorney general William Pryor, who is nominated for a seat on the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

It was no-holds-barred at Pryor's Senate Judiciary Committee hearing last Thursday. Senate Democrats questioned him on his religion and past remarks on abortion. New York Democratic senator Charles Schumer proclaimed: "[Pryor's] beliefs are so deeply held that it's very difficult to believe those views won't influence how he follows the law. A person's views matter."

Also at the hearing, Senator Russell Feingold (D., Wis.) made an issue out of the fact that Pryor and his wife changed their Walt Disney World vacation plans when they learned their visit was coinciding with the annual Gay Day there (the first Saturday in June).

Here's how it went:

SEN. FEINGOLD: In a recent brief to the Supreme Court, you equated private, consensual sexual activity between homosexuals to prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, incest and pedophilia. In addition, your office defended a statute that denied funding to a gay-lesbian-bisexual alliance, a student organization. The 11th Circuit unanimously declared the statute unconstitutional. Furthermore, as deputy attorney general, you joined an amicus brief in Romer v. Evans arguing that local governments in Colorado were prohibited from enacting laws to protect gays and lesbians from discrimination. The Supreme Court later rejected your view, but you called the decision undemocratic.

News accounts also report that you even went so far as to reschedule a family vacation at Disney World in order to avoid Gay Day. In light of this record, can you understand why a gay plaintiff or defendant would feel uncomfortable coming before you as a judge? And I'd like to give you this opportunity to explain why these concerns may or may not be justified.

ATTY GEN. PRYOR: I think my record as attorney general shows that I will uphold and enforce the law. In the Lawrence case, the first that you mentioned, I was upholding and urging the Supreme Court to reaffirm its decision of 1986 in Bowers versus Hardwick, which is the law of the land. And the argument to which you referred, the slippery slope argument, was taken from Justice White's majority opinion for the Supreme Court of the United States.

In the second instance that you mentioned, the 11th Circuit case involving university facilities and funds for homosexual groups in Alabama, that argument was presented by then attorney general Jeff Sessions, not by me. And, in fact, after the decision came down, by the time the decision came down I was attorney general. But I did not file any papers to quarrel with the decision because, in fact, I agreed with it. When we worked together in the attorney general's office, I declined to participate in that case for General Sessions because I had agreed with the District Court ruling, and I agreed then with the 11th Circuit ruling.

In the case of Romer versus Evans, General Sessions again was the attorney general at the time. I was his deputy attorney general, but he was the one who made the final decision. I have criticized the Romer decision.

As far as my family vacation is concerned, my wife and I had two daughters who at the time of that vacation were six and four, and we made a value judgment. And that was our personal decision. But my record as attorney general is that I will uphold and enforce the law, particularly, as I mentioned in my first example, in the Lawrence case, the brief that we filed defending Alabama law, which prohibits sodomy between unmarried persons, follows the Supreme Court's precedent.

SEN. FEINGOLD: Well, I certainly respect going to Disney World with two daughters. I've done the same thing. But are you saying that you actually made that decision on purpose to be away at the time of that —

ATTY GEN. PRYOR: We made a value judgment and changed our plan and went another weekend.

SEN. FEINGOLD: Well, I — I appreciate your candor on that.

Mr. Chairman — Mr. Pryor, you've criticized those —

SEN. HATCH: Senator, your time is up.

Throughout the hearing on Thursday, Pryor was unapologetic before the committee for being who he is: a pro-life, legally conservative, Catholic public servant (surely none of these disqualifies one for seating on a federal bench); he handled the Disney question no differently. Despite his honesty, however, the Democrats' work had already been done: Simply by raising the question, they had demonized him.

But that any of his critics would use his family's Disney vacation planning against him is, well, goofy. A family choosing not to go to Disney World during "Gay Day" says nothing about their positions on or feelings about gay marriage, homosexuality, or gay people in general. It would probably not be a stretch to guess that if there were a "Live-in Boyfriend and Girlfriend's Day," the emphasis on visitors being publicly identified by their sexual orientation (at least for that day), Pryor and his wife would probably skip that, too.

Whatever your position on gay marriage or homosexuality, a private decision to not take your children to Disney World during "Gay Day," would be considered by many parents to be a perfectly sensible decision — and that is certainly not proof that those parents are haters. (Click here , here , here , or here for some visuals from both on Disney grounds and at associated events.) It does not follow that you are an anti-gay bigot if you decide Gay Day (which has included an event for gay and lesbian youth at the Magic Kingdom and a Queer as Folk reception ) is not the most appropriate time to travel to Disney World with your four- and six-year-old daughters.

What the Pryor hearing was really about was stonewalling, yet again. It's our way, or empty benches, is the message the Democrats repeatedly send the White House. And to law-upholding, conservative, pro-life, religious nominees: Unless you have the stomach to fight back, or apologize, in the face of intense demagoguery, stay far away from Capitol Hill, and, subsequently, any federal bench.

Article link
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#722826 - 06/18/03 01:08 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
Pryor's hearing, and his response to it, set many Senators back on their heels.

If you want honesty, the man was bluntly honest, and unapolegetic.

Furthermore, he has very strong multi-racial backing in his home state.

Leahy sent Bush a letter recently, almost begging to sidestep the upcoming Supreme Court nonimation fight.

If I was Bush, after all these committee shenanigans, I'd nominate a bedrock conservative Hispanic, and I'd beat the Dems with that political switch like a red-headed stepchild.

The reason the President has been so lax on illegal immigration from Mexico, is that he knows that splitting the Hispanic vote evenly, or capturing a majority of it, will ensure majority party status for 20 years or more.

A hispanic nominee to the Supreme Court is just one more nail in the coffin. If the Dems appear to be anti-hispanic, it's over with. I don't care how many books Hillary sells (which, by-the-way, the sales figures were erroneously inflated in the media), tinkle on the campfire, and call the dogs, the Dems will be a permanent minority for years.
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#722827 - 06/18/03 01:17 PM Re: The Disney Smear
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:

I don't care how many books Hillary sells (which, by-the-way, the sales figures were erroneously inflated in the media), tinkle on the campfire, and call the dogs, the Dems will be a permanent minority for years.[/QB]
I love it!!!!! \:D \:D \:D
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http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#722828 - 06/18/03 03:04 PM Re: The Disney Smear
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
Because Pryor changed his vacation plans with his little girls, Feingold tried to paint him as a homosexual-hater who would use an anti-homosexual personal agenda to rule over law, but Pryor metaphorically kicked his ass. Those here[/b], here[/b], here[/b], and here[/b] links are pretty disgusting. You wouldn't want to be there with your family, either.
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#722829 - 06/18/03 03:07 PM Re: The Disney Smear
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
The gays shouldn't take advantage of such a liberal source of income as Disney WORLD. Jolly you are one smart crocodile.
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#722830 - 06/18/03 05:10 PM Re: The Disney Smear
TomK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 2611
Though I'm not anti-gay, me and my family definitely AVOID the Gay Pride celebrations in NYC and Key West. There is nothing there that little girls should see.

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#722831 - 06/18/03 05:56 PM Re: The Disney Smear
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I wonder what effect the legal gay marriages in Canada will have on the U.S., once this happens in a few months (NY Times front page, today)? Will American society get to the point, where a parent like me can do more than stammer to my (then) 5 yr. old, as we were forced to watch two football-player sized males kissing (who then turned and laughed at us, and walked on by)?

I would certainly avoid Disneyland during "Gay Pride Day," as a situation like the above makes me very uncomfortable, and I would not like a repeat of this type of family harassment (the "in your face see I'm gay" types).

Maybe I'm just too old-fashioned. I also have a problem with the "Nudist Camp for Kids" that was also in the NY Times. . .

I'm a prude. . .

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#722832 - 06/18/03 06:35 PM Re: The Disney Smear
The D's Pianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/01
Posts: 624
Loc: Southwestern Oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by rvaga:
(the "in your face see I'm gay" types). [/b]
Those really bother me. I'm by no means anti-gay -- I have gay and lesbian friends at school. The thing about that specific "purposely obvious" type, though, that really irks me, is that a lot of them expect special treatment because they are gay. Sure, they should be treated as equals. But just because they have a minority sexual preference doesn't mean that they should get the privilege flaunt it in front of everyone and make out in public.

I get just as angry at straight couples who make out in public. It's just plain indecent, and something that really bothers me. I say keep what belongs behind bedroom doors behind bedroom doors!
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(I just changed my sig., so no grief, yeah?)
----------
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#722833 - 06/18/03 06:50 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
I don't disagree with the writer's stance on Gay Day at Disney (judges--well that's another matter) although I'm not sure why the links to the visuals were included. No one should feel obligated to go.

rvaga, what was the offence? That two grown men were kissing or that they were so impudent towards you?

I think the best way to teach children when they witness grown-ups kissing (male-female, male-male, female-female) is simply to point out that the two people love each other very much. What do you tell your 5-year old when they witness a male and female kissing? That they like to go to bed with each other? No, you don't start talking about sex, you tell them the couple love each other. It's the same with two men (or two women) kissing.

The D's Pianist, I'm with you, although I don't mind it terribly if the couple is discreet (i.e., quiet, in the corner, not 'in your face'). Can't tell you how many times I have to share the train home with couples (heterosexual) who confuse the subway car with the bedroom. There is certainly no comparison when talking about shameless "making out" in public: heterosexuals are the biggest offenders. My reading of rvaga's experience was that they witnessed two men kissing--it doesn't sound like "making out".
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#722834 - 06/18/03 06:59 PM Re: The Disney Smear
The D's Pianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/01
Posts: 624
Loc: Southwestern Oregon
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
My reading of rvaga's experience was that they witnessed two men kissing--it doesn't sound like "making out".[/b]
Oh, I wasn't saying that kissing is making out. Kissing is fine with me -- as long as it's not one of those prolonged, tonguey, frighteningly passioned ones. And that's speaking for hetero or homo.

Reading rvaga's experience just sent me on a tangent.
_________________________
Musically,
Benjamin Francis
http://www.myspace.com/benjaminfrancis
(I just changed my sig., so no grief, yeah?)
----------
Sofia Gilmson regarding Bach:
"Bach didn't write the subject; he wrote the fugue."

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#722835 - 06/18/03 07:03 PM Re: The Disney Smear
shantinik Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/01
Posts: 4271
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by TomK:
Though I'm not anti-gay, me and my family definitely AVOID the Gay Pride celebrations in NYC and Key West. There is nothing there that little girls should see.[/b]
I know what you mean. I feel the same about the Rose and Macy's Day Parades. ;\)

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#722836 - 06/18/03 07:13 PM Re: The Disney Smear
TomK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 2611
 Quote:
Posted by Bernard: I think the best way to teach children when they witness grown-ups kissing (male-female, male-male, female-female) is simply to point out that the two people love each other very much. What do you tell your 5-year old when they witness a male and female kissing? That they like to go to bed with each other? No, you don't start talking about sex, you tell them the couple love each other. It's the same with two men (or two women) kissing.[/b]
Two questions:

1. Do you have any kids?

2. And if you do have kids, when did they figure out you don't have a clue about how to raise them and go off to live with their mother?

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#722837 - 06/18/03 07:24 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
Well I am as probably one of the most pro-gay advocates here. BUT, I have a problem seeing two men kissing. I admit, I have a double-standard when it comes to this.

I believe that any group that is not well-liked by society should do all in their power to endear themselves too society. Public displays of something society is already uncomfortable with, is not endearing.

That said, I feel fairly confident that not every gay person at gay day in Disney World behaved as shown in those pictures. I've seen pictures of Mardi Gras that were 100 times worse. Should I then conclude that all heterosexuals in New Orleans behave this way?

I would avoid gay day at Disney World as much as I would avoid Mardi Gras.

Derick
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#722838 - 06/18/03 07:40 PM Re: The Disney Smear
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
Okay,
since we're on this subject. I have an interesting situation. Suppose you have a 16 year old son, who is, let's say, a "late bloomer", is effeminate (sp?), been called "gay" most of his childhood, and has an at older brother who wants to be "super stud". He is now 16 and questioning his sexuality. I told him "you won't know until you fall in love" and become "physically attracted" to whoever....
Suppose this was your son. Would you take him to DisneyWorld on gay day???????
Peggy
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#722839 - 06/18/03 07:41 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Derrick,
 Quote:
I believe that any group that is not well-liked by society should do all in their power to endear themselves too society.
As hard as it is to try endearing oneself to bigots, I believe that a major effort to educate people and to do so by setting an example and showing that homosexuals are not inherently immoral, do not de-grade society, can be responsible and upright citizens is well underway.
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#722840 - 06/18/03 07:43 PM Re: The Disney Smear
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
Oh, one more thing, and this is important. His father after twenty years of marriage decided that he (the father) was gay. Talk about a confused young man! Sorry, but it's a good question? Would you take him to DisneyWorld on gay day? Or just let him go by himself and hope or the best.
He'll always be loved no matter what.
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http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#722841 - 06/18/03 07:47 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Peggy, I understand the fear behind this question, but the fact is if that son is not gay, taking him to Disney on Gay Day will not change that aspect of him. If he is gay, it may be a relief for him. But the question is, after all, pretty hypothetical unless one had planned a trip to Disney without knowing that it coincided with Gay Day.

Also, effeminate traits have nothing to do with sexual orientation. I know some heterosexual men who have wonderfully delicate traits and there are plenty of football types out there who are homosexual or have homosexual tendencies.

If it were my child I would try to find out if he were troubled. If so, I'd try to find a mentor for him and/or visit a shrink with him (it could be pretty difficult getting him to go along though).
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#722842 - 06/18/03 07:54 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
Peggy,

I do not think it is wise to put any child out on their own in such a situation. Would I take him? Hard to say, I'm not a parent. I'd really have to grit my teeth but I might hoping that what goes on at Disney World is rare and mild compared to other gay venues. I definitely would not let him go by himself and hope for the best. It's a dangerous world out there.

Similarly, I wouldn't let the "studly" son go down to Mardi Gras.

Derick
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#722843 - 06/18/03 07:55 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Sorry Peggy, I just read your other post and maybe the question wasn't so hypothetical after all. If it were me, I'd ask him if he were straight or gay. Perhaps after such a discussion, the Disney trip will be much less an issue.

Edited:
What Derrick said is something to consider though, there are predator types out there, both gay and straight. If it were my child and he was gay, I would want him to find a nice, stable young man.
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#722844 - 06/18/03 07:59 PM Re: The Disney Smear
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
Derick,
I was joking about sending him alone. And you're right about the older one at Mardi Gras. They're such opposites it's unreal. The "studly" one is a real good kid. Just too good looking for his own good. He gets told all the time he looks like Tom Cruise and he does. The younger is just now getting rid of baby fat. Actually, the younger is turning out better looking than the older one. (They take after Mom.) \:\)
But they're really good. I'm proud of them both. But, it's an interesting question. Isn't it? Real life...
Thanx for your reply,
Peggy
_________________________
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http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#722845 - 06/18/03 07:59 PM Re: The Disney Smear
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
 Quote:
Bernard:
rvaga, what was the offence? That two grown men were kissing or that they were so impudent towards you?
Definitely the impudence. Over the years I've had several gay friends, and known many more as acquaintances (in music, there seems to be a high proportion of gays). Most of those that I have known are/were wonderful people: Just good people that happened to be gay. I have no problem with that (but there was a doll when I was young and single, I would think "what a waste" ).

And, there were a few that were absolute jerks, and used their gay lifestyle to be "in your face" at every opportunity.

Yes I know, people are jerks or nice, regardless of sexual orientation. But my 5 yr. old had seen his mom and dad kiss, but the reaction to the fullbacks kissing passionately and then laughing when the desired effect (shock effect on my wife and I) took place, I'm at a loss as for any explanation for my kid. Love? I don't think love has anything to do with flaunting in public to make others feel uncomfortable.

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#722846 - 06/18/03 08:03 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
As hard as it is to try endearing oneself to bigots, I believe that a major effort to educate people and to do so by setting an example and showing that homosexuals are not inherently immoral, do not de-grade society, can be responsible and upright citizens is well underway.[/b]
Bernard,

I don't like it when heterosexuals make-out in public. I think it shows a lack of class and a lack of respect for those around them.

Homosexuals do not need to kiss in public to prove that they don't degrade society. All they have to do is be the peaceful, normal, people most of them are.

Perhaps my friend has "fine-tuned" my gaydar but I can spot two gay guys a mile away. Not because of anything overt, it's something very subtle, something that says "we're together". That's ok with me - I don't think any less of them. But if they were to kiss - well, my respect for them, because of their lack of respect for me, dropped significantly.

Derick
_________________________
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

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#722847 - 06/18/03 08:04 PM Re: The Disney Smear
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
Bernard,
He will absolutely not talk about it. His dad has been in and out of shrinks for years. So, his dad coming out really effected him. I realize having effeminate qualities does not make a man gay. But, unfortunately, my son and the crappy kids he goes to school with don't realize that. We have no trip planned. This thread just got me thinking about whether I'd take my kids. Probably, I wouldn't.
Because, why make him more self-conscious than he already is. He'll find out in his own way. I can only be here for him and love him either way. I hope he's not. Not because I'm anti-gay but because why make life tougher than it already is?
Thanx for your response,
Peggy
_________________________
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http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#722848 - 06/18/03 08:08 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
As someone who cannot have children; if my son or daughter were to tell me "Dad, I'm gay", it would make no difference to me. That child is still my child and his/her sexual preference is no different than whether or not they eat their beets at supper. They are what they are.

If they were sexually aware teenagers, would I take them to a Gay Pride Parade? If they wanted to go- yes. Would I feel comfortable? Probably not. But that's my problem. Not my child's or the paraders or others who identify with the scene.
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#722849 - 06/18/03 08:12 PM Re: The Disney Smear
TomK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 2611
 Quote:
Posted by Bernard: showing that homosexuals are not inherently immoral, [/b]
Granted. But how does one explain to him/her the homosexual act is immoral, (as is the heterosexual act, outside of marriage?)

The problem I have with your ideas of child raising is that it's reactive, not proactive, (you have x for a child, now what do you do with him/her?) But more importantly, it doesn't reach the central issue of child rearing, which is not how to give the child choices, but rather how to instill in the child the values you have to lead the type of quality life that you believe in. You pass on to you children who you are.

Homo or hetro is not the issue--but how to live within a given framework of beliefs and rules that lead not always to happiness, but to a depth of character.

I don't believe that trotting a child around Gay Day at Disney leads anyone to better character.

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#722850 - 06/18/03 08:15 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Derrick,

Listen, if you are uncomfortable seeing two men kiss, you're uncomfortable seeing two men kiss. Simple as that. But I am glad you own up to the double standard.

 Quote:
All they have to do is be the peaceful, normal, people most of them are.
But isn't it normal to want to peck your lover goodbye when you part ways on the street? Or some such thing?
_________________________
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#722851 - 06/18/03 08:17 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Derick Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York
Peggy,

I didn't want to jump to the conclusion, even though you all but said it, that you were talking about your own two sons and husband in the first post. Now I'm quite sure you are.

I'm sorry to hear about your husband - from the perspective of the pain it has caused you. And, him, for that matter. One of the great dangers of society is trying to put everyone into a little box. So your husband grew up trying to fit in the box, got married, thought that would "straighten" him out - but it didn't. Not to say that it is a mess, since I don't know your history and how you feel/felt about it, but I'm sure it wasn't easy for anyone.

Now you have a son that is confused. He probably wants to fit in that nice little heterosexual box, but feels drawn to the homosexual box for some reason. Which begs the question "why?" He may be gay and he needs to feel that it's ok that he doesn't fit in the heterosexual box. Or, he may be straight and just confused for reasons that are well beyond my education.

I'd seriously consider taking him to a counselor so he can find out who he really is - either way -and accept what he is.

I think it's great he has a mother that is so supportive. My friend's mother and father were not supportive at all. Your new here, so I'm repeating a story I've told before, but it bears repeating. My buddy tried to commit suicide and was minutes from death. While I don't want to lay blame, his parent's, society and even his best friend (me) all factored into his decision that one awful day.

You're a good mother.

Derick
_________________________
Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

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#722852 - 06/18/03 08:29 PM Re: The Disney Smear
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
Peggy,

I very much sympathize with your position and admire your attitude. A good friend of mine was divorced after many years when her husband "came out" and it was shattering. Next came a protracted Court battle about whether or not the father would get custody of the kids (boys).

Also, I have witnessed enough from my sons' growing up - especially the younger one, to know that being gay is, if anything, worse than it was before all this self-consciousness about it. At least around here. It seems there are two major put-downs in adolescents' vocabulary, both intolerant: "retarded" and "gay" (spelled gheigh). Actually there's a close third - "special", this euphemism having finally become an insult.

No matter how much I try to erase these words from his vocabulary explaining how much they can hurt, from force of habit - out they come. It's a tough age to be all around. And to think that - at least to the best of my recollection, there weren't the same kind of put-downs when I wa growing up. Oh yeah, "skag" for a homely girl, and just being called fatso or whatever to refer to a physical flaw.

The school board in my town passed a resolution forbidding sexual or other harrassment in the schools - based on gender, race, nationality, ethnicity, religion and sexual preference. After a heated debate, the sexual preference part was struck down, and after that, it seemed things got noticeably worse. It was as if the school had somehow sanctioned the ridicule. And in a way it's worse for a boy, because if they complain to the school about being bullied or harrassed, they're laughed at and ridiculed all the more.

Ariel

P.S. Talking about confused kids - we had a family friend whose step-son found out his father had "come out" only at a funeral when his father came completely dressed and made-up as a woman! Now he doesn't know if he has two mothers or what.
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#722853 - 06/18/03 08:31 PM Re: The Disney Smear
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
Derick,
What a thoughtful post. Oh, I do love my sons. As far as my ex- I feel sorry for him. Brian (my son) will be fine. We've experienced depression in the family with his father. His father was suicidal and hospitalized. I feel bad for you that you went thru that with your friend. But didn't it make you stronger and more accepting. Didn't it help open your mind and become more forgiving. Don't blame yourself. You're there now and that's what matters. My boys have been thru a lot, too, and it's made them strong. Brian will go his own way. I feel sad he's confused but he'll find it.
I've answered my own question anyway. I would NOT take him to DisneyWorld. If he decides he's gay, he can go as an adult and make his own decision.
You're great!!!
Thank you,
Peggy
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#722854 - 06/18/03 08:32 PM Re: The Disney Smear
shantinik Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/23/01
Posts: 4271
Loc: Olympia, WA
 Quote:
Originally posted by TomK:
[QB]
 Quote:
Posted by Bernard: showing that homosexuals are not inherently immoral, [/b]
Granted. But how does one explain to him/her the homosexual act is immoral, (as is the heterosexual act, outside of marriage?)/QB]
I feel the same way about banking, but I do take my daughters to the bank. I explain its immorality while we use the ATM.

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