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Topic Options
#723666 - 11/09/04 06:35 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
sarah_blueparrot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 808
Loc: Bristol, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:

It's opinion vs. opinion...although I can go on forever debating homosexuality, trust me.

[/b]
Well I'm not sure that you could. You couldn't even last long in the other thread, 89th. You were going round in circles and repeating yourself, whilst making 'points' that had no relevance to the debate at all, and insulting a lot of people. The only point I remember you making was that you regarded homosexuality as a pyschological disorder, and you gave no reasoning.
Unfortunately, you can't just step down from a debate when you're tired of it.
_________________________
Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.

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#723667 - 11/09/04 07:14 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
When did I "insult a lot of people"? Either they made a basless insult first, or didn't like my opinon, but I didn't personally insult anyone. Check your facts.

I COULD go on forever, but no one was refuting anything I was saying with anything but opinion! And thats not going to go anywhere, and you know that.

Any points that I made that were "off topic" were simply in reaction to someone else's argument that already went off topic, thus I had to address their flawed logic and then get back on track.

I have said it before, and I'll say it again, IF you can find some factual evidence to support your opinion, I'll be more than happy to continue...but there is none, and all you want to do is debate opinion.

It's like us debating whether or not orange is the best color, or what the best food is...it wont go anywhere.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723668 - 11/09/04 07:58 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Jeez, Nunatax, give it a rest. If you read my last post in that thread, it very clearly summarizes my point of view and how we are just going in circles. [/b]
Why should I give it a rest when you don't even bother to read my last post there. Like I said, it's rude and selfish.

I and other people in that thread have given you legitimate arguments for things on which you base your general opinion, yet you just ignored these arguments.
I can have respect for your general opinion, but only if it is based on arguments that I can respect too. So far you've only given arguments that were based on flawed reasoning, but no matter how hard everyone tried there to point that out to you, you just kept saying the same foolish things (the engine driving your carroussel :rolleyes: ). It seems that it is very hard for you to admit mistakes.

That's in short what I tried to say to you in my post there...
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723669 - 11/09/04 08:56 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
I appreciate your effort to show me 'legitimate arguments', but you have to admit that they weren't relevant to the issue.

We could talk about the 'origin' of homosexuality all day, but in the end, there has been no conclusive evidence on either side, that is what I am talking about regarding the 'endless cycle' of the debate. It is a debate of opinion.

The issue is NOT about the ORIGIN. It's about civilized freedom. Its either, let everything be free...or have rules that will keep order.

Please address the issue at hand rather than talking about my opinion.

I respect your opinion about the 'origin' as well, we agree to disagree...but that's not productive. The real issue I was talking about was about selective discrimination, and since no one would address that issue, I left the thread.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723670 - 11/10/04 09:19 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
Your “evasive manoeuvres” do not cease to surprise me :rolleyes:

 Quote:
I COULD go on forever, but no one was refuting anything I was saying with anything but opinion! And thats not going to go anywhere, and you know that.
[/b]

I have been refuting a lot of what you have been saying with arguments rather than just opinion (CHECK YOUR OWN FACTS FOR ONCE), only you never gave me arguments in return. Instead you basically tell me that your comments to which I gave these arguments are beside the point. So, that means if you say something in a debate that is, according to me, wrong, I cannot give my arguments when the comment you made is (according to you) beside the point? Pretty odd, no?

 Quote:
The issue is NOT about the ORIGIN.[/b]
Oh, OK! Let me show you a line from your first post in that thread :

I think alcoholism, homosexuality, animal cruelness,(anything along those lines is my point), is simply a subconscious psychological disorder that can be treated, reversed, cured, etc...[/b]

You raised the origin of homosexuality as an issue in your very first post in that thread.

But whatever, keep digging, you’ll never admit your mistakes anyway :rolleyes:
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723671 - 11/10/04 11:27 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
You are right nunatax, I apologize. I was used to the other 400 post thread about the economic and legislative issues regarding homos that I was still in that mind set. So I did mention the 'origin' first...but it wasn't up for debate.

Opinion vs opinion doesn't go anywhere, and I can debate your opinion all day, but we all know it is pointless.

Thats why the issue still remains, I mentioned how I think it's a subconcious psychological disorder that can be treated. You think the pudding tastes one way, I think it tastes another way...who cares!

Again if you want to show me evidence refuting my position, thats fine, but no more rare animal behavior articles; it has nothing to do with how superior humans are supposed to behave.

In the end, there is NO solid evidence supporting either origin theory[/b].

Thats why I wanted to talk about the selective discimination that homophiles have in their legislative stances, but all anyone could talk about was how one male chicken played with the other's "feather". Thus, I stopped talking in the debate because everyone was avoiding my selective discrimination topic.

Show me evidence, address my topic, or shut up...but stop taunting me with empty comments.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723672 - 11/12/04 03:30 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
*sigh*

Final attempt…

Go back to that thread and try to find my opinion. You won't find it, because I never really gave it to you, I just challenged some things on which you based your opinion (which is not a bad way of having a discussion, or am I wrong?).

You raised the origin of homosexuality as an issue, and when arguments came up and you had to defend yourself, it became clear that you knew (know) practically NOTHING about the genetical aspect (and you probably don't know much about psychology either). You've said more than one foolish thing in your posts there, but no matter how I and some others tried to point those out to you, we never got arguments in return, instead you started whining that we were giving "empty comments", that we were not adressing the issue, that we should "check our facts", that "opinion vs. opinion" doesn't get us anywhere and so on and so on… I truly hope you can find the emptiness in your own posts :rolleyes:

I agree with what Jbryan said to you in another thread : I also value intellectual honesty, but I can't seem to find yours...
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723673 - 11/12/04 05:13 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Moonbat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Bristol, England
 Quote:

In the end, there is NO solid evidence supporting either origin theory
There is evidence, i gave you some, you choose to ignore it.

Given what is known, the current best bet is that homosexuality has a genetic component.
_________________________
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

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#723674 - 11/12/04 05:34 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nunatax:
I just challenged some things on which you based your opinion ([/b]
Nunatax,

I said that being homosexual is a psychological disorder, that is my opinion from studying and debating this topic for many years. I *DO* know about genetics and psychology, I have studied those subjects before and know a lot more about it than you give me credit for.

Once again, I say its a psychological disorder, but you haven't challenged anything that I have based my opinion on. You and others have shown me articles about rare animal homosexual behaviors, but that doesn't challenge my 'disorder' theory, not at all.

I dont understand what is so hard to realize, you haven't shown me ANYTHING that is solid evidence regarding your theory, and visa versa, thus...that discussion is pointless. I will continue debating it if you would like, I dont mind, I have done it for years.

That is why I was trying to talk about the selective discrimination that some people have when they support homosexual marriage, but no one is addressing that issue!

Again, show me some proof behind your theory or stop talking about it, because in the end, opinion vs opinion is an interesting discussion, but it goes nowhere.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723675 - 11/12/04 05:42 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Moonbat:
 Quote:

In the end, there is NO solid evidence supporting either origin theory
There is evidence, i gave you some, you choose to ignore it.

Given what is known, the current best bet is that homosexuality has a genetic component. [/b]
Do you realize what you just said?

You said you gave me solid evidence, but then you said that it is the "best bet" considering what is known.

You cant have evidence, and then gamble on it.

Evidence is evidence, and you have none.

If I found evidence (such as a scientific reading) that the sun is hot, im not going to say that "it is the best bet that the sun is hot, given our knowledge". No, the sun IS[/b] hot. Thats what evidence is: proof...not a loose correlation.

Please address the issue that has substance, about why you think its ok to selectively discriminate against other segments of the population who have lifestyles that 'dont' hurt anyone, yet you support the "illegal status" of their activities.

You either have rules or chaos. Allow certain, normal, things...or allow everything.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723676 - 11/12/04 05:43 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
sarah_blueparrot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 808
Loc: Bristol, England
There is proof that homosexuality is NOT a pyschological disorder, and that is from the millions of homosexuals who are so confused at the age of 12 or 13, and try and try to feel attracted to the opposite sex, but it just doesn't work. They keep looking at the same sex. And do you know why? It's because at 12 or 13 years old puberty kicks in, and that's where they start to notice. And no matter how hard they try not to be, no matter how much they push it down, it doesn't work. What if you wanted ginger pubes instead of black pubes when they started to appear at that age? You can't go to a pyschiatrist and say, 'I don't see my pubes as being ginger - there's something wrong with me.' And do you know why? It's because both situations are genetic - and personally I do not consider homosexuality to be a disorder. Yes, in the Bible it says you'll go to hell for it, but God does not deal with disorders. Why would he, omnipotent and all, make a mistake? He hasn't. God didn't write the Bible.
_________________________
Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.

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#723677 - 11/12/04 05:50 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by sarah_blueparrot:
There is proof that homosexuality is NOT a pyschological disorder, and that is from the millions of homosexuals who are so confused at the age of 12 or 13, and try and try to feel attracted to the opposite sex, but it just doesn't work.[/b]
Thats why I say its a *subconscious* psychological disorder. It's the same thing as how most retarded kids dont realize that they are retarded.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723678 - 11/12/04 05:56 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
sarah_blueparrot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 808
Loc: Bristol, England
You can't just turn it off, 89th. If a gay person 'knew' that his/her sexuality was a subconscious pyschological disorder, it would become conscious, and therefore supposedly easy to treat. However, it doesn't work like that. Give me an example of someone who has 'realised' in a situation like this, and has turned. I don't want some scrawled, made up story. I want proof that a) they were definitely gay in the first place, and b) they had treatment and were 'cured'.
_________________________
Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.

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#723679 - 11/12/04 06:06 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Well you see it all the time in AA meetings, but thats besides the point.

But yes you can "turn it off"; I have friends at church who were gay, realized they gave in to the immoral and sinful behavior, and prayed for forgiveness and correction. Now they have a wife and kids.

It happens all the time. ANY sinful behavior can be corrected. Just as I used to steal and lie alot when I was younger, I have worked hard on that fixing that lifestyle and haven't done any of those things in years.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723680 - 11/12/04 06:09 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
sarah_blueparrot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 808
Loc: Bristol, England
 Quote:
Originally posted by sarah_blueparrot:
Give me an example of someone who has 'realised' in a situation like this, and has turned. I don't want some scrawled, made up story. I want proof that a) they were definitely gay in the first place, and b) they had treatment and were 'cured'. [/b]
Proof please? "It happens in AA meetings all the time" - I don't believe that the AA targets homosexuals..
_________________________
Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.

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#723681 - 11/12/04 06:16 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Sarah, here is another story:

http://www.desertstream.org/healing%20homosexuality.htm

I would highly recommend that everyone who is skeptical about the possibility of healing homosexuality read this article.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723682 - 11/12/04 06:17 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
The AA comment was because alcoholics who realize they have a problem and a sinful lifestyle go, get help, and are "fixed" at AA meetings.

Just liked homosexuals are sometimes "fixed" if they seek out the help.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723683 - 11/12/04 06:38 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
sarah_blueparrot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 808
Loc: Bristol, England
The AA is for people who are addicted to alcohol, who really need help because of their state of health.
The person in this story no doubt feels happy that he changed. I question the fact that he was actually gay in the first place. All he wanted was a cuddle with a guy. In my opinion, God does not really have a lot to do with sexuality, as he apparently considers it to be a sin, and at the same time says he will accept everyone who believes. What about people who haven't even heard of God? They don't have a chance. What about those homosexuals who are devout Christians? According to the Bible, God would simply turn his back on them, and I don't believe he is that cruel.
I think the only reason the Bible mentions anything about homosexuality is because it was written by men, a long time ago, who believed that they were superior to women and to gay people, among other such prejudices. I think most of it is a euphemism and a load of ****, to be quite honest.
_________________________
Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.

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#723684 - 11/12/04 06:41 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Haha, that was quite honest indeed. \:\)

(even though I dont agree)
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723685 - 11/12/04 06:44 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
sarah_blueparrot Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 808
Loc: Bristol, England
\:\)
_________________________
Every time you play a funeral march, the devil grabs a soul.

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#723686 - 11/12/04 06:46 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
89th - many people are homosexual.. a significant percentage of our population. I can't tell you how offensive I find your attitude.

If you are going to be judgemental; (out of politeness and why not), why would you share that judgement with those who might be gay. HAVE GOOD MANNERS is not a commandment, but it is as important a mandate as THOU SHALT NOT LIE.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#723687 - 11/12/04 06:47 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
I said that being homosexual is a psychological disorder, that is my opinion from studying and debating this topic for many years. I *DO* know about genetics and psychology, I have studied those subjects before and know a lot more about it than you give me credit for.[/b]
If you knew anything about genetics, then you would not have posted utterly foolish things like :

 Quote:

a. The reasons gay people are even here are from heterosexual parents....you dont see a black couple having a white baby....do you?

b. A species can not survive with homosexual behavior. Period.

c. No one can deny that being homosexual (if you argue that it is natural) is a is a natural deformity/abnormal behavior; it is simply not how humans are 'supposed' to be.
Being blind, retarded, homosexual, deaf, bad eyesight, etc. are all unfortunate abnormal human characteristics. I'm not saying that they are bad, so dont get me wrong; just not normal human characteristics.

d. Let's put 100 homosexuals on an island, and see how long they last. How long nunatax?
[/b]
a. Ever heard of recessive alleles?

b. I think I've given plenty of arguments for that statement.

c. The Nature article shows that homosexual behaviour is not necessarily a natural deformity or abnormal behaviour since it states that it seems to lead to an increased birth rate (which would make it a naturally evolved mechanism in order to increase birth rate), in this case "boosting female reproduction". Yet you say that no one can deny it.

d. Shows that you know nothing about scientific research and population ecology, the setup for your little experiment is ridiculous. Everyone but you realised that.

 Quote:
You and others have shown me articles about rare animal homosexual behaviors, but that doesn't challenge my 'disorder' theory, not at all.[/b]
No I haven't, go check your facts.
I have given you one historical article in which the word animal never even occured and I have shown you an excerpt from a book about altruistic behaviour to show you that seemingly unnatural behaviour can lead to an increase in birth rate. (Notice that it is extremely important that the altruistic allele is recessive in order for it to survive.)
I have also used the Nature article that was posted by Nina, it isn't about animals either.

 Quote:
I dont understand what is so hard to realize, you haven't shown me ANYTHING that is solid evidence regarding your theory, and visa versa, thus...that discussion is pointless. I will continue debating it if you would like, I dont mind, I have done it for years.[/b]
My theory? What exactly is my theory?

I have done nothing more than providing you with arguments for the foolish statements of yours that I quoted above. Statements you used to back up your opinion about the origin of homosexuality.

I don't care whether you think its origin is psychological or not, there are reasons to believe so, there are reasons to believe otherwise. But I have never seen such a poor defender of the psychological disorder theory as you.

When someone makes such foolish statements in a debate like the ones I quoted above, I think it's pretty normal that someone comes in to refute them. That's what I did, I showed you were you were wrong, only you refuse to acknowledge that you were wrong. That's what I'm trying to point out to you, and that what you don't seem to get or don't want to get.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723688 - 11/12/04 07:16 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
89th - many people are homosexual.. a significant percentage of our population. I can't tell you how offensive I find your attitude. [/b]
Homosexuality and marriage are very valid issues to talk about, especially given the pending legislation.

I dont mean to be offensive, my thoughts and opinions on the topic are honest. Gay people shouldn't take them personally. If you told me that you think eating pie is disgusting or sinful, I'll say "Ok, thats your opinion, it doesn't bother me."

Many people call 'believing in God or the Bible' a waste of time, ignorant, etc...and I dont take what they say personally; and neither should gays.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723689 - 11/12/04 07:26 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The Laughing Cavalier Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/04
Posts: 39
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
If you told me that you think eating pie is disgusting or sinful, [/b]
Depends on the pie.

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#723690 - 11/12/04 07:30 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nunatax:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The 89th Key:
[qb]
a. The reasons gay people are even here are from heterosexual parents....you dont see a black couple having a white baby....do you?

b. A species can not survive with homosexual behavior. Period.

c. No one can deny that being homosexual (if you argue that it is natural) is a is a natural deformity/abnormal behavior; it is simply not how humans are 'supposed' to be.
Being blind, retarded, homosexual, deaf, bad eyesight, etc. are all unfortunate abnormal human characteristics. I'm not saying that they are bad, so dont get me wrong; just not normal human characteristics.

d. Let's put 100 homosexuals on an island, and see how long they last. How long nunatax?
[/b]
a. Ever heard of recessive alleles?

b. I think I've given plenty of arguments for that statement.

c. The Nature article shows that homosexual behaviour is not necessarily a natural deformity or abnormal behaviour since it states that it seems to lead to an increased birth rate (which would make it a naturally evolved mechanism in order to increase birth rate), in this case "boosting female reproduction". Yet you say that no one can deny it.

d. Shows that you know nothing about scientific research and population ecology, the setup for your little experiment is ridiculous. Everyone but you realised that. [/b]
----------------------------------------

a. I have studied recessive alleles, and say what you want, you will NOT see two white parents have a black kid, period.

b. You have given me arguments that haven't meant anything. It's simple, you cant survive as a species from homosexual behavior. Thats an elementary fact.

c. As you said, the nature article says its "not necessarily a natural deformity". Thats great, so it says its theory but doesn't disprove the 'deformity' argument.

d. I used that situation to show you how "b" was true. You might hate the situation, but its true, if you had only homosexuals in the truest sense of the word, they wouldn't survive by themselves on an island. We are only surviving as a species from heterosexuals.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont understand what is so hard to realize, you haven't shown me ANYTHING that is solid evidence regarding your theory, and visa versa, thus...that discussion is pointless. I will continue debating it if you would like, I dont mind, I have done it for years.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My theory? What exactly is my theory? [/b]

Your theory is that my theory of 'disorder' is wrong.


And finally you said it best:

I don't care whether you think its origin is psychological or not, there are reasons to believe so, there are reasons to believe otherwise.[/b]

Exactly, hence I ask you to address my selective discrimination issue, that you are avoiding.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723691 - 11/12/04 08:40 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
a. I have studied recessive alleles, and say what you want, you will NOT see two white parents have a black kid, period.

b. You have given me arguments that haven't meant anything. It's simple, you cant survive as a species from homosexual behavior. Thats an elementary fact.

c. As you said, the nature article says its "not necessarily a natural deformity". Thats great, so it says its theory but doesn't disprove the 'deformity' argument.

d. I used that situation to show you how "b" was true. You might hate the situation, but its true, if you had only homosexuals in the truest sense of the word, they wouldn't survive by themselves on an island. We are only surviving as a species from heterosexuals. [/b]
a. Sheesh, man, do I have to explain everything into the tiniest detail in order for you to understand? That was not what I meant. By comparing the possible genetic cause of homosexuality with the fact that two black parents will never have a white kid, you implied that if the cause for homosexuality is genetic, the allele is dominant. It's much more nuanced than that. That made your comment to be very ignorant. Besides, remember one of my previous quotes in which I said that in order for the altruistic allele to survive, it has to be recessive?
Is there any chance you might want to explain that to show me that you DO know something about (population) genetics?

b. The carrousel keeps on turning...
Yet again you twisted the words. Your original statement was that a species cannot survive with[/b] homosexual behaviour.
Here's a piece of what I posted in the original thread :
By the way, you have some way of twisting words. I never said that a species of homosexuals could survive, I said that a species with homosexual behaviour could survive. It's not because a species is a species with homosexual behaviour, that all the individuals of the species are homosexual, that's what you make of it, but that's not what mankind is either. We're not a population that consists only of homosexual individuals, we consist mostly of heterosexual individuals.
What I've been trying to tell you, and the only reason it didn't get through to you is because you don't know a damn thing about genetics and biology, is that a species of which the populations have a small percentage of homosexual individuals, are capable of surviving, and there's probably not even a negative effect from the homosexual individuals, possibly even a positive effect. It's what is written in the Nature article, it's what I tried to tell you with the altruistic behaviour part. [/b]

So, let us rephrase to clear it up :
A species can survive without homosexual behaviour. But : homosexual behaviour is not causing the species to become extinct since the populations of the species do not consist of only homosexual individuals like in your experimental setup. As implied in the Nature article, homosexual behaviour can lead to an increase in birth rate which would make it a natural mechanism to increase the chances of survival. But, that doesn't mean that the species is able to survive ONLY because of homosexual behaviour.
I'm really not going to explain this any further to you as it would take way too much of my time.

c. And yet you state that no one can deny that it is a natural deformity.


d. Yes, but once again, your hypothetical situation is ridiculous. I could also tell you to put 100 altruistic individuals on an island, since they don't reproduce, they won't survive either, and yet it has been proven that they make a contribution to the survival of the population and species.


 Quote:
My theory? What exactly is my theory? [/b]

Your theory is that my theory of 'disorder' is wrong.
[/b]

No, that's not my theory. I never told you whether I believe it is either psychological or genetical. What I did was pointing out the flaws in your reasoning, the reasoning you used to come to your opinion. I repeat : I have never seen such a poor defender of the psychological disorder theory as you.


 Quote:
And finally you said it best:

I don't care whether you think its origin is psychological or not, there are reasons to believe so, there are reasons to believe otherwise.[/b]

Exactly, hence I ask you to address my selective discrimination issue, that you are avoiding. [/b]
You really don't get it do you. I don't care about your selective discrimination issue, I just showed you the flaws in the reasoning you used to come to YOUR conclusion that homosexuality is a psychological disorder. There are people who come to the exact same conlusion as you do (and who knows, maybe I'm one of them), only, they base them on much more knowledge and common sense than you do.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723692 - 11/12/04 08:42 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
reblder Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/01
Posts: 1237
Loc: Sherman Oaks, Calif.
89th Key:

The fact that you've persisted in labelling homosexuality a "disorder" when it is simply a sexual preference or lifestyle reflects nothing other than your stubbornly clingling to judgemental views which have turned off just about everybody who even "bothers" to commmunicate with you on the subject.

Should you ever "evolve" to the point where you somehow acquire more compassion, you'll reject the jaundiced views you hold now. At that time you'll also be much more secure with your own identity as well.

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#723693 - 11/12/04 09:07 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
lb Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 1731
Loc: Indiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by reblder:
89th Key:

The fact that you've persisted in labelling homosexuality a "disorder" when it is simply a sexual preference or lifestyle [/b]
So it is just a choice!! This is what I always thought.

lb

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#723694 - 11/12/04 09:34 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nunatax:
You really don't get it do you. I don't care about your selective discrimination issue, I just showed you the flaws in the reasoning you used to come to YOUR conclusion that homosexuality is a psychological disorder. There are people who come to the exact same conlusion as you do (and who knows, maybe I'm one of them), only, they base them on much more knowledge and common sense than you do. [/b]
Ok so you dont want to address the selective discrimination issue, thats fine, and least I know that you dont want to talk about that.

Secondly, you need to state what your thoughts are on the origin of homosexuality before we contintue...if you agree with me, then say so. If you think they are born that way, then say so...but arguing about how I came up with my opinion is pointless if you already agree with it.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723695 - 11/12/04 09:39 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by reblder:
89th Key:

The fact that you've persisted in labelling homosexuality a "disorder" when it is simply a sexual preference or lifestyle reflects nothing other than your stubbornly clingling to judgemental views which have turned off just about everybody who even "bothers" to commmunicate with you on the subject.

Should you ever "evolve" to the point where you somehow acquire more compassion, you'll reject the jaundiced views you hold now. At that time you'll also be much more secure with your own identity as well. [/b]
Who said I didn't have compassion? I never make any personal attacks toward anyone. I am only talking about the issue and situation of homosexuality.

I am sure you disagree with many lifestyles that 'dont hurt anyone', just as I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle. Should I call you judgemental, stubborn, compassionless, holding 'jaundiced' views, and insecure?

No.

Dont be a hypocrite.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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