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#723726 - 11/17/04 05:33 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
No, its not flawless, but I think its a legitimate viewpoint.

Just one of many reasons why I dont think its natural.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723727 - 11/17/04 05:35 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
"Delete that first part?" What are you talking about?
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723728 - 11/17/04 05:49 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
After all I have told you, you don't think that that comparison was one HUGE, TREMENDOUS MISTAKE?????????

If so, then I have no further comments... I've made it as clear and simple as I could. If you still don't understand it then I'm afraid even the best scientists couldn't get you to understand...
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723729 - 11/17/04 05:53 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
"Delete that first part?" What are you talking about? [/b]
In your "4 quick points" list you said that the statement "a black couple can never have a white baby" was true. That was not what I had been trying to refute since that is indeed true. What I was refuting was your ENTIRE quote, WITH the first part, only you "deleted" that part in your "quick points" list.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723730 - 11/17/04 09:16 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nunatax:
If you still don't understand it then I'm afraid even the best scientists couldn't get you to understand... [/b]
Thats quite alright with me, the best scientists cant explain A LOT of things, so its all good.

They dont know where homosexuality comes from, neither do you or I, so my theory is it's a subconscious psychological disorder. Fair enough?
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723731 - 11/17/04 11:53 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
I don't care about your theory or opinion about the origin. I'll start caring about it when you come up with some decent arguments to defend it with instead of these thoughtless ones.

But since you try to avoid all the valid arguments I give you, I'll probably never care about your opinion.

Your way of debating here was pathetic.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723732 - 11/17/04 12:01 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
You threw out all these 'facts' that had nothing to do with what I was talking about...you dodged the main topic and you never looked at the big picture.

Why dont you do your own research and form an theory about the topic before you continue to attack my opinion.

But look...

...in the end it doesn't matter no matter what we say. There will always be people who claim to be a homo and the origin of their abnormal sexuality is a moot point. What you have to do now, is stay on an intelligent course of discussion and talk about relevant issues, such as their push for marriage, and the selective discrimination that it brings about.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723733 - 11/17/04 01:31 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
You threw out all these 'facts' that had nothing to do with what I was talking about...you dodged the main topic and you never looked at the big picture.
[/b]

You are hopeless...

For the last time :
It's very simple. You made some statements that were scientifically completely ridiculous. I gave arguments because I realised they were ridiculous. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

If you cannot admit that you were wrong, I don't have ANY reason to debate the main topic with you, because I feel that debating with you is senseless since you'll never accept any of my arguments anyway.

 Quote:
Why dont you do your own research and form an theory about the topic before you continue to attack my opinion.
[/b]

I never attacked your opinion. I attacked those statements you made, and those were no opinions, they were flawed science, whether you like it or not.

Show me that you are willing to admit mistakes, especially when they are as obvious as the ones you made here, then I'll consider you a worthy opponent in debate. Fair, no?
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723734 - 11/17/04 01:39 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
I admit, you attacked my rationale, not my opinion, my fault...

But in the same sense, look at it from my point of view: Just as you think i'm being stubborn and not admitting im wrong, I just as easily see your arguments as invalid and you wont admit to their own fallacies...see what I mean?

We agree to disagree, haha.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723735 - 11/17/04 02:08 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
I admit, you attacked my rationale, not my opinion, my fault...
[/b]



 Quote:
But in the same sense, look at it from my point of view: Just as you think i'm being stubborn and not admitting im wrong, I just as easily see your arguments as invalid and you wont admit to their own fallacies...see what I mean?

We agree to disagree, haha. [/b]
For that first point there is no doubt that you were wrong. If I'd show that statement (that entire statement :rolleyes: ) to the professor who taught me genetics two years ago, he'd be rotflhao... You quite simply FORGOT one of the main principles of genetics when you formulated that argument and therefor it is one gigantic mistake...

If you don't see a simple fact like that then I feel no need to further argue about the other points... Please show some basic common sense, because that's really all you need for this point.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723736 - 11/17/04 04:20 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada

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#723737 - 11/17/04 05:44 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
snap_apple Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 710
haha

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#723738 - 11/17/04 07:23 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Haha, I agree NAK, but I told Nunatax that if she wanted to continue, I would...I'm never one to turn down a challenge.

We are arguing opinion, since nunatax doesn't want to address the only homosexual issue with substance and practicality.

I think she said before she doesn't want to address it...
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723739 - 11/17/04 09:17 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
Wait. Nunatax is a girl?

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#723740 - 11/18/04 03:20 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
[/b]
Lol!!! \:D
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723741 - 11/18/04 03:21 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Wait. Nunatax is a girl? [/b]
No... I'm not a girl.
Don't know where he got that...
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

Top
#723742 - 11/18/04 03:25 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Haha, I agree NAK, but I told Nunatax that if she wanted to continue, I would...I'm never one to turn down a challenge.

We are arguing opinion, since nunatax doesn't want to address the only homosexual issue with substance and practicality.

I think she said before she doesn't want to address it... [/b]
Hey wait, I thought you just agreed that I wasn't attacking your opinion...

Flip-flop 89th key...

You're right, I don't want to address it, certainly not when you can't admit a very obvious mistake... Arguing with someone like that is fruitless...

You just killed the thread...

Ignorance can be lethal you know...
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723743 - 11/18/04 05:36 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
I didn't say you attacked my opinion Nunatax, get your facts straight. We'll leave that flip-flopping up to Kerry.

Yeah, after I said "she", I was trying to figure out why I thought nunatax was a girl, I think from the first time I saw HIS name, I just assumed in the back of my mind. Maybe it was the 'nuna'...that sounds kinda female. Anyway:

Admit a mistake?

Answer this, very simply. I already know your answer, becuase you have said it before, but just for the record, *just say YES or NO*.

Can two white parents have a black kid?
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723744 - 11/18/04 05:55 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
Not giving up, huh?

OK, let's try this your way...

 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Answer this, very simply. I already know your answer, becuase you have said it before, but just for the record, *just say YES or NO*.

Can two white parents have a black kid? [/b]
No.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

Top
#723745 - 11/18/04 06:13 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Exactly. Thank you. \:\)
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723746 - 11/18/04 06:20 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
Great, we're getting somewhere
:rolleyes:

Now it's your turn to give me a yes or no answer to my question.

Knowing that a white couple cannot have a black baby, is that reason enough to say that a heterosexual couple cannot have a child that is homosexual because of genetic reasons?
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723747 - 11/18/04 06:31 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
No.

Not reason enough, *but* I think it is a legitimate point of view to consider when there is no evidence pointing to either a genetical or psychological disorder.

Listen, I respect your facts and point of view about this nunatax, I really do. I just think it's valid enough to be one of many reasons why I dont think it would be genetical. Ya know?
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723748 - 11/18/04 07:04 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
You really are priceless, 89th key!


Foolish boy. Your entire argument loses ALL of its value when you realise the following :
A man and a woman who both have brown eyes can have a child with blue eyes.

It's not a point of view, it's not something I use to defend my point of view or opinion, it's a fact, and it completely destroys your argument.

Man, I would love to see you defending your argument in a debate on TV! You'll be literally shredded to pieces! \:D
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723749 - 11/18/04 07:33 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Thats like saying if the kid can have a different eye color, it can have a different skin color, or a different sexual orientation.

Thats just not true, and you know.

Had I been on TV, there would have been enough intelligence to realize that a debate should address an issue with substance, such as homo marriage.

But you obviously lack that intelligence and want to dodge that issue. You want to talk about the rationale for my opinion, when you dont even HAVE an opinion in the first place.

So either:
1) form an opinion
or 2) talk about the real issue
or 3) shut up.

Those are your options.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723750 - 11/18/04 07:57 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
I'll make you a promise :
If you acknowledge the obvious (and thus show me that you are not unreasonable), I'll stop "dodging" what you consider to be "the issue". ;\)
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723751 - 11/18/04 08:20 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
Thats like saying if the kid can have a different eye color, it can have a different skin color, or a different sexual orientation.[/b]
Nice edit...

Absolutely my final attempt at stopping this madness :

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the skin color and the eye color characteristic. Skin colour alleles are co-dominant, eye color alleles follow the recessive-dominant principle (WARNING : oversimplified for your convenience...).
That means, if you have a black skin color, then you don't have alleles coding for white skin color in your genetic material, otherwise your skin would not be black but brown... Two black people can therefor have no white children.
If you have brown eyes (and brown is dominant over blue), then there are two possibilities :
a. you have two alleles coding for brown eyes (homozygote)
b. you have one allele coding for brown eyes, the other codes for blue eyes (heterozygote)

Two parents that are heterozygote for eye colour can have a child that has blue eyes.

And no, that's not saying that a kid can also have a different skin color then, because skin color is just determined by a whole other mechanism : co-dominance (which I explained earlier).

Now, pay attention, because the following is VERY IMPORTANT :

Without the blink of an eye, you put homosexuality under the same mechanism as that which determines skin color, but you forgot that if it has the mechanism of eye color, then it is perfectly possible that two heterosexual parents have a homosexual child.

Consequence : your whole argument is flawed to the highest degree. [/b]
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723752 - 11/18/04 08:31 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
You are missing the whole point. I dont base my opinion that it is a psychological disorder simply on the fact that I dont see two heterosexual parents having a homosexual kid.

There are MANY reasons why I believe its a psych disorder, and that is just one of them. After all, there is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic at all, thus talking about the genetical composition and behavior when two parents mate, is irrellivant. Your analysis of eye color, skin color, etc doesn't matter because the homosexual "gene" is an entirely different platform. Lets say, just for kicks, that it is genetical. It could be under the mechanism that determines eye color. Consequence: You're right. It could just as easily be under the mechanism that determines skin color. Consequence: I'm right. I just dont see two heterosexual parents having a homo kid. MOVE ON.

I'd love to talk about selective discrimination with you, but you seem to have no opinion on anything, so tell me what your stance is with homo marriage, IF you want to continue with that aspect of the debate.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723753 - 11/18/04 09:29 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium


 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
You are missing the whole point. I dont base my opinion that it is a psychological disorder simply on the fact that I dont see two heterosexual parents having a homosexual kid.

There are MANY reasons why I believe its a psych disorder, and that is just one of them. After all, there is no evidence that homosexuality is genetic at all, thus talking about the genetical composition and behavior when two parents mate, is irrellivant.[/b]
I'm not the one who brought up the origin in the discussion and I don't care who did! The fact is, it WAS brought up and you made a wrong statement!

 Quote:
Your analysis of eye color, skin color, etc doesn't matter because the homosexual "gene" is an entirely different platform. Lets say, just for kicks, that it is genetical. It could be under the mechanism that determines eye color. Consequence: You're right.[/b]
OK, let's hold it right there.
I don't use my argument to prove that it is genetical (I have never even claimed that it is genetical)... I simply can't use it to prove that it is genetical, and I would never use it to support that idea either. I only used it to disprove your logic.[/b]
You used your argument to defend your opinion that it is psychological. See for yourself :

 Quote:
the reasons gay people are even here are from heterosexual parents....you dont see a black couple having a white baby....do you?
Everyone who has a minimum of intelligence interprets this as : since a black couple cannot have a white baby, two heterosexual parents cannot have a homosexual baby, thus it is impossible that homosexuality is genetical.
I think that statement sounds pretty conclusive. The problem is, you cannot draw that conclusion, you cannot use that argument to support the idea that it is psychological, but that is what you did and keep doing. The analogy you made there is simply UNJUSTIFIED.
Furthermore, by saying that that statement is wrong, I'm not trying to refute that it is psychological, I'm trying to indicate that you CANNOT USE IT TO SUPPORT YOUR IDEA THAT IT IS PSYCHOLOGICAL.[/b]

 Quote:
so tell me what your stance is with homo marriage, IF you want to continue with that aspect of the debate. [/b]
My stance on homosexual marriage is already here in another thread. Everyone ignored it, probably because they didn't like what I had said. Someone else brought it back up and said that it didn't get the attention that it deserved. Still no responses.
I should go back and check it out to be sure, but if I'm not mistaken you were among those who ignored what I had said.
I can dig it back up if you want.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723754 - 11/18/04 09:32 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Moonbat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Bristol, England
 Quote:

no evidence pointing to either a genetical or psychological disorder
There is evidence suggesting a partial genetic basis. I gave you some, which for some you reason you choose to ignore.
_________________________
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

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#723755 - 11/18/04 09:50 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Nunatax, how many times do I have to tell you? I just dont see a homosexual baby coming from heterosexual parents. You have all this jargon about recessive alleles in dealing with skin color and eye color. THAT DOESN'T MATTER! No one has any evidence to prove that homosexuality is genetic, thus talking about it's behavior as a gene is pointless! I simply dont see it, thats my opinion, I think it is like the black/white parent kid thing, in which it is impossible for certain traits to magically appear! Eye color uses a completely different mechanism in the behavior of genes, and in my opinion homosexuality isn't EVEN a gene, thus this is a pointless issue. There is no evidence on either side so drop it, it is my opinion, and when you show me that it is genetical, THEN you can start talking about the genetical behavior issue. BUT YOU HAVEN'T, thus my opinion is EXACTLY as valid as yours. Its not that hard to understand!

And why wont you just say your stance on homo marriage instead of making me go and find it. You used 6 sentences to talk about how you had one, but it would of taken you one sentence to just say what IT is.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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