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#723786 - 11/23/04 07:18 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Moonbat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Bristol, England
 Quote:

Moonbat, did you read what you wrote?

"It may have", "suggests"...
You do not understand the words being used, science almost always talks in terms of may have and suggests because there is NEVER EVER absolute proof.

 Quote:

The scientific community has many pieces of evidence for many areas that are TRUE. Temperature, heart disease, animal cloning from DNA, etc...
Wrong, there is no such thing as evidence that is "true", there is only evidence, there evidence from planetary measurements that suggest that heliocentricty is correct, the evidence from various intereupted chemical reactiosn suggest are certain mechanism is correct, the plaeontological, morphological and genetic evidence suggests species evolved, its all the same thing. Nothing is ever certain nothing is ever question, but the more evidence behind an idea the more likely it is to be correct.

 Quote:

But they simply do not have any evidence that will say that homosexuality IS genetic
There is fundamentally no such thing, and can never be such a thing, for any topic EVER because absolutle proof does not exist, one can only gather evidence that seems to favour one hypothesis over another.

 Quote:

There is tons of evidence supporting a theory of a genetical or psychological disorder, but neither have any concrete facts.
There is no such thing as concrete facts in science, nothing is ever concrete, everything can be questioned.

 Quote:

If it is genetic, and they cant help it, how come they have girlfriends while in highschool before coming out, or have wives later on after reorientation and reject their sinful desires?
You really do not know what you're talking about. "Reorientation" spectacularly fails in the majority of cases.

Girlfriends in highschool? Because they try really hard not be gay by doing straight things because they are made to feel that what comes naturally to them is wrong.

And again no one is saying its _completely_ genetic only that it has genetic basis, look at the twin studies for heavens sake.

 Quote:

You see, I dont care HOW against the norm it is to be attracted to and have physical relations with a woman it is. I simply could NOT force myself to have sex with a man, just because society says its better?
Male-male homophobia seems to be very strong in our society ie. the revulsion you feel for being with a man, is probably not felt by a gay person being with a woman, just like women do not feel the same revulsion at the thought of being with another woman.

I mean you are at least in part the product of your upbringing, you have been told it homosexuality is wrong, it's etched onto your soul that homosexuality is wrong, you of all people are going to feel extreme revulsion at the thought of it, conversely a homosexual brought up the same mannor will just feel horribly confused.
_________________________
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

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#723787 - 11/23/04 07:49 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
You do not understand the words being used, science almost always talks in terms of may have and suggests because there is NEVER EVER absolute proof.
Or they will say that the sun IS hot. Or that plate tectonics IS happening. But when it's still a theory, they will say "the big bang MAY HAVE happened" or "homosexuality MIGHT BE genetic."

 Quote:
Wrong, there is no such thing as evidence that is "true", there is only evidence, there evidence from planetary measurements that suggest that heliocentricty is correct, the evidence from various intereupted chemical reactiosn suggest are certain mechanism is correct, the plaeontological, morphological and genetic evidence suggests species evolved, its all the same thing. Nothing is ever certain nothing is ever question, but the more evidence behind an idea the more likely it is to be correct.
Refer to what I just said above.

There are also layers of certainty in theories. The theory of plate tectonics is very very†valid. As you can see from your evidence that you posted, the theory of a genetical base for homosexuality is very very†WEAK.

 Quote:
There is fundamentally no such thing, and can never be such a thing, for any topic EVER because absolutle proof does not exist, one can only gather evidence that seems to favour one hypothesis over another.
Now, please refer to my other two statements just said above.

 Quote:
There is no such thing as concrete facts in science, nothing is ever concrete, everything can be questioned.
Refer to everything I just said above.

 Quote:
You really do not know what you're talking about. "Reorientation" spectacularly fails in the majority of cases.

Girlfriends in highschool? Because they try really hard not be gay by doing straight things because they are made to feel that what comes naturally to them is wrong.

And again no one is saying its _completely_ genetic only that it has genetic basis, look at the twin studies for heavens sake.
My reply in my last post covered this topic very, very well, please read it.

 Quote:
Male-male homophobia seems to be very strong in our society ie. the revulsion you feel for being with a man, is probably not felt by a gay person being with a woman, just like women do not feel the same revulsion at the thought of being with another woman.

I mean you are at least in part the product of your upbringing, you have been told it homosexuality is wrong, it's etched onto your soul that homosexuality is wrong, you of all people are going to feel extreme revulsion at the thought of it, conversely a homosexual brought up the same mannor will just feel horribly confused.

First, I wouldn't call it homophobia, unless you want me to refer to you as a homophile.

And I dont care how much society accepts or rejects it...homosexuals are not attracted to woman, not in the least bit. They should be repulsed by the thought of kissing a girl. Yet they go shopping, hold hands, etc. all the time. It doesn't add up.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723788 - 11/23/04 08:20 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
reblder Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/01
Posts: 1237
Loc: Sherman Oaks, Calif.
Posted by the 89th key:
 Quote:
Thusly, homosexuals shouldn't be able to have sex with women at points in their life, when at other points claim to be gay
Oh yeah, well my closest friend who is gay has had alot of sexual relations with women when he got horny and no guy happened to be around. The thing is he has never IDENTIFIED with being gay though his preference is for other men. So by not IDENTIFYING that meant he didn't stop himself when the opportunity arose.

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#723789 - 11/23/04 08:29 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic reblder, but it sounds like he is bisexual?

I'm not sure what point you were trying to make or just making a side comment...
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723790 - 11/23/04 10:11 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Moonbat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Bristol, England
 Quote:

Or they will say that the sun IS hot. Or that plate tectonics IS happening. But when it's still a theory, they will say "the big bang MAY HAVE happened" or "homosexuality MIGHT BE genetic."
You have no idea what you're talking about, you don't know what the word "theory" means in a scientific context, you don't understand even the basic principles of scientific investigation, i was going to point you towards Karl Popper but it would be so far above your head i don't think you would benefit from it.

 Quote:

There are also layers of certainty in theories. The theory of plate tectonics is very very valid. As you can see from your evidence that you posted, the theory of a genetical base for homosexuality is very very WEAK.
Nonsense it's widely accepted that homosexuality has a partial genetic basis, the idea that it's totaly genetic is not accepted because the evidence contradicts it, the idea thats completey agenetic is not accepted because the evidence contradicts it. The idea that there is a partial genetic basis is strong, strong enough that people are talking about where the genes are not if they are.

 Quote:

First, I wouldn't call it homophobia, unless you want me to refer to you as a homophile
If i'm heterophile then i guess i'm a homophile too, but you are defintively homophobic in the classic sense you're other post made that crystal clear.

 Quote:

And I dont care how much society accepts or rejects it...homosexuals are not attracted to woman, not in the least bit. They should be repulsed by the thought of kissing a girl. Yet they go shopping, hold hands, etc. all the time. It doesn't add up.
How do you know!? That is so ridiculous: the idea that if you feel a certain way therefore everyone in the entire world must feel the same way. Just because you feel repulsedd when you think of kissing a man does not mean a gay man would feel repulsed at the thought of kissing a woman. Straight women do not feel the same repulsion as straight men, which immediately disproves you're assertation.

Like i said earlier you need to take a course on logic.
_________________________
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

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#723791 - 11/23/04 10:12 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by David Burton:
People who are going to stand in the way of homosexual marriage DO NOT CARE why someone is homosexual.
[/b]

Fine, I donít care that you donít care why someone is homosexual.
Does that forbid me to intervene when someone makes a false statement about it?

 Quote:
People who DISBELIEVE in the claims of ANY theory that postulates as all but proved that one species can EVOLVE from another, don't care about genetics, and in fact a few of us think that genetics offers less proof for natural selection as a mechanism than more evidence for design and in any case is irrelevant to a discussion of evolution, and NO I'm not interested in debating Darwinism here or anywhere else. The fact is that I do not have to believe it and I have a right to dissent and claim that it is nothing but a bad theory used for deliberate reasons (from its very inception) to foist a view of life that cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
[/b]

Yes, you have the right to dissent and claim that it is nothing but a bad theory etc. If you donít want to debate Darwinism here or anywhere else thatís fine by me too, I donít care.
89th key can believe that the origin of homosexuality is psychological. It can be that the origin doesnít matter to him while he is asking himself the question whether homosexual marriage should be allowed or not. I donít really care.
What he canít say though, is that the origin of homosexuality canít be genetic because a black couple will never have a white baby. That is just dead wrong and I think you know that too.

 Quote:
As to homosexual marriage it is analogous to giving a blind man (or woman) a driver's license.[/b]
Uh?
How exactly is homosexual marriage going to kill anyone??? And thus, in what way is allowing homosexual marriage as irresponsible as giving a blind man a driverís license????

 Quote:
There are people who society deems unworthy of certain key responsibilities. Marriage has a specific definition, always has and always will, and homosexuals are disqualified. Now a suitable political settlement can be reached whereby society offers a limited kind of union to homosexual couples. But if they are not willing to be reasonable, then they may end up getting nothing.
[/b]

I must say I completely disagree with this. But as 89th key would say, this is just a matter of opinion...


89th key,

Thatís not what I call a decent answer.
For one, you completely ignored the first half of my post. I donít really wonder why though :rolleyes:

 Quote:
I told you before that I will answer your quiz as soon as you answer my selective discrimination question. Fair is fair and I asked you first, we need to stay in order here![/b]
Nope, not gonna work...
You can start a new thread about your selective discrimination issue if you want. Iíll be there with all the answers you want from me ;\)
In here, itís about your false statement(s) and about whether or not you know anything about genetics (since you claimed that you ďhave studied and debated it for many yearsĒ but apparently donít even understand the most basic jargon and most simple exercises), and since my last post, you yet again dodged that issue. If what you said here in your last post is all you have left to say about this, then thereís nothing more I have to add here and Iíll not further bother NAK and others.
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723792 - 11/23/04 11:35 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
tfgfjvgb drfil gue ilge gh (banging head on keyboard).

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#723793 - 11/23/04 12:49 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
You have no idea what you're talking about, you don't know what the word "theory" means in a scientific context, you don't understand even the basic principles of scientific investigation, i was going to point you towards Karl Popper but it would be so far above your head i don't think you would benefit from it.
Once again you are completely LYING in order to make your point. You dont know me and you have no idea about my knowledge.

Do you know the difference between a theory and a law? Aww...not everything is a 'theory' now is it?!?? Thus there are certain things out there that are constant, fact, a law. And there are certain things out there that are a hypothesis, a guess, a theory.

 Quote:
Nonsense it's widely accepted that homosexuality has a partial genetic basis, the idea that it's totaly genetic is not accepted because the evidence contradicts it, the idea thats completey agenetic is not accepted because the evidence contradicts it. The idea that there is a partial genetic basis is strong, strong enough that people are talking about where the genes are not if they are.
And yet the scientific community says over and over every year that there isn't any evidence showing its genetic, just theoretical applications. Hmmmm....when they find out that it IS genetical, just as how they know that there IS DNA, then we'll go from there, but they wont, I dont think that will ever happen, since it's a psych disorder in my opinion, not a genetic disorder.

 Quote:
If i'm heterophile then i guess i'm a homophile too, but you are defintively homophobic in the classic sense you're other post made that crystal clear.
Well if you think because I do not approve of homosexuality, that I am AFRAID of them, then you are destroying your credibility more and more. You might want to take a class in latin or basic suffixes (sp?) before you starting saying I am AFRAID of homos.

 Quote:
How do you know!? That is so ridiculous: the idea that if you feel a certain way therefore everyone in the entire world must feel the same way. Just because you feel repulsedd when you think of kissing a man does not mean a gay man would feel repulsed at the thought of kissing a woman. Straight women do not feel the same repulsion as straight men, which immediately disproves you're assertation.
I dont know if you are a guy or girl, but tell me, would you have sex with a member of the same sex? Yes or no, and why.

Thank you in advance for proving my point. \:D
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723794 - 11/23/04 12:51 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Eusebius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 725
Loc: Maryland
Nunatax,

I commend you for your determination and your perseverence. But your arguments are rebounding, bouncing, ricocheting all over the place; the thick skull at which they are aimed will not allow them to penetrate. And there's nothing you are anyone else can do about it.

Let this thread DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_________________________
"My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own image, to be servants of their human interests." - Santayana

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#723795 - 11/23/04 12:55 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nunatax:
 Quote:
I told you before that I will answer your quiz as soon as you answer my selective discrimination question. Fair is fair and I asked you first, we need to stay in order here![/b]
Nope, not gonna work...
You can start a new thread about your selective discrimination issue if you want. Iíll be there with all the answers you want from me ;\)
In here, itís about your false statement(s) and about whether or not you know anything about genetics (since you claimed that you ďhave studied and debated it for many yearsĒ but apparently donít even understand the most basic jargon and most simple exercises), and since my last post, you yet again dodged that issue. [/b]
Why start another thread? Just keep it in here.

I asked you about your selective discrimination before you asked me about genetics.

Fair is fair, address my topic before I address yours. And your assumption that I dont know the simplest of jargon regarding genetics because I am not yet answering your question is an ignorant statement.

I am not entertaining your quiz yet because you have failed to address my topic that I mentioned before your quiz. That is how a simple civilized debate works.

Go ahead answer it. And refer to the "seperation of church and state" thread if you want to read up on my responses so far, its been quite active and verbose in there with moonbat.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723796 - 11/23/04 12:57 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Eusebius:
Nunatax,

I commend you for your determination and your perseverence. But your arguments are rebounding, bouncing, ricocheting all over the place; the thick skull at which they are aimed will not allow them to penetrate. And there's nothing you are anyone else can do about it.

Let this thread DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/b]
Dont read it if you dont want to.

And if you have something to say, E, then say it or stay out.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723797 - 11/23/04 01:19 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by The 89th Key:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Eusebius:
Nunatax,

I commend you for your determination and your perseverence. But your arguments are rebounding, bouncing, ricocheting all over the place; the thick skull at which they are aimed will not allow them to penetrate. And there's nothing you are anyone else can do about it.

Let this thread DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/b]
Dont read it if you dont want to.

And if you have something to say, E, then say it or stay out. [/b]
Eusebius has said what he had to say, and he's damn right!

For me this thread has just been buried ;\)
See ya!
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#723798 - 11/23/04 01:27 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
Hallelujah!

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#723799 - 11/23/04 01:39 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Well nunatax, I'll take from your refusal to address my issue, and your walking away from the debate, that you are conceding!!


It was fun, let me know if you ever want to address the topic, and I'm all for it!

Bye bye!
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723800 - 11/23/04 05:55 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
reblder Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/01
Posts: 1237
Loc: Sherman Oaks, Calif.
No, for the 89th time, he realized YOU were a losing cause so why should he spend time wasting words on an impenetrable fool!

Someday, you'll hopefully acquire the wisdom to see this.

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#723801 - 11/23/04 06:02 PM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
minime Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 66
Loc: New York
funny ha ha 89th time I get it!!!!!

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#723802 - 11/24/04 06:09 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by reblder:
No, for the 89th time, he realized YOU were a losing cause so why should he spend time wasting words on an impenetrable fool!

Someday, you'll hopefully acquire the wisdom to see this. [/b]
Or...I asked him a question, he didn't want to address it. Thus he knew that he didn't have anything else to say since he didn't want to address the current issue. Fine with me! \:D

Some people will just stop talking, which is rude, at least he said something when he forfeited the debate.
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#723803 - 11/24/04 06:29 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
Moonbat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Bristol, England
 Quote:

And there are certain things out there that are a hypothesis, a guess, a theory.
Like i said you have absolutley no idea what you're taling about, a theory is NOT a "guess". Heliocentricity is a "theory", germs causing diseases is a "theory". If you don't even understand the words being used what hope have you got for understanding the underlying science.

Go onto google and look it up.


Edit:
Infact here i'll give to you:

 Quote:

In common usage a theory is often viewed as little more than a guess or a hypothesis. But in science and generally in academic usage, a theory is much more than that. A theory is an established paradigm that explains all or many of the data we have and offers valid predictions that can be tested. In science, a theory can never be proven true, because we can never assume we know all there is to know. Instead, theories remain standing until they are disproven, at which point they are thrown out altogether or modified slightly.

Theories start out with empirical observations such as ďsometimes water turns into ice.Ē At some point, there is a need or curiosity to find out why this is, which leads to a theoretical/scientific phase. In scientific theories, this then leads to research, in combination with auxiliary and other hypotheses (see scientific method), which may then eventually lead to a theory. Some scientific theories (such as the theory of gravity) are so widely accepted that they are often seen as laws. This, however, rests on a mistaken assumption of what theories and laws are. Theories and laws are not rungs in a ladder of truth, but different sets of data. A law is a general statement based on observations.

Some examples of theories that have been disproved are Lamarckism and the geocentric universe theory. Sufficient evidence has been described to declare these theories false, as they have no evidence supporting them and better explanations have taken their place.

Often the statement "Well, it's just a theory," is used to dismiss controversial theories such as evolution, but this is largely due to confusion between the scientific use of the word theory and its more informal use as a synonym for "speculation" or "conjecture." In science, a body of descriptions of knowledge is usually only called a theory once it has a firm empirical basis, i.e. it

is consistent with pre-existing theory to the extent that the pre-existing theory was experimentally verified, though it will often show pre-existing theory to be wrong in an exact sense,
is supported by many strands of evidence rather than a single foundation, ensuring that it probably is a good approximation if not totally correct,
has survived many critical real world tests that could have proven it false,
makes predictions that might someday be used to disprove the theory, and
is the best known explanation, in the sense of Occam's Razor, of the infinite variety of alternative explanations for the same data.
This is true of such established theories as evolution, special and general relativity, quantum mechanics (with minimal interpretation), plate tectonics, etc.


from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

 Quote:

And yet the scientific community says over and over every year that there isn't any evidence showing its genetic, just theoretical applications
You have no idea what the scientic community says you don't even know what "evidence" or "theory" means. I on the other hand do know what the scientific community says because i read the periodicals, regularly talk to both scientists and Phd students, have a degree in science and am devoting my life to the study of it.

There IS a concensus that a partial genetic basis is most likely.

 Quote:

I dont know if you are a guy or girl, but tell me, would you have sex with a member of the same sex? Yes or no, and why.

Thank you in advance for proving my point.
It is actually painful reading this nonsense, i am not attracted to members of the same sex, the idea does not appeal but **** it if would bring world peace, if it would save a million lives, then yea i would.

To just recap since i am abandoning discussing with you as completely pointless:

You have no idea what the words "evidence" or "theory" mean, you have no idea how the scientic process works, you have no idea what the scientific community thinks, what's more you don't seem to understand what the phrase "partial genetic basis" means.
_________________________
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem

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#723804 - 11/24/04 07:28 AM Re: Terrorists rejoice! Bush is elected!
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
Aww, moonbat, you know its not good to lie, right?

I have no idea what evidence or theory means eh? Yet, lets look at some official definitions:

'Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.'

or

'An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.'

Since you lied about me again, I'll wait for your apology. You can just copy and paste one of your other apologizes that you have made to me...it might be faster that way. ;\)
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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I just can't get my head around temperament!
by LarryShone
04/20/14 01:05 PM
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