Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room I'm A Very Manly Man

Kenny and others...PLEASE read Larry's post very carefully. Most of us law biding citizens that obtained our guns legally have no desire to use them in any fashion other than defense and sport. It is the criminals that cannot be reasoned with, not us.

That being said keep in mind that come Armageddon I would shoot you in the head for a bottle of water and a 10 year old bag of Doritos.

You guys are talking to someone else, not me.
Yes, there is a gun control issue raging in America.
I am not arguing for either side of the issue.
You don't have to talk to me as if I am one of them.
Don't lump me into that group.
Actually, how about not lumping me into *any* group.

I don't care if you have a gun.
You don't have to justify it or explain it.
You are obeying America's laws, just like the woman getting an abortion.
Who cares if anyone like a law?
A law is a law.

I am only responding to others who say *I* need a gun, and especially cause I'm gay.
I don't feel I need or want a gun.

I am also saying that a person can make life choices that keep them safer.
Like not stopping on the hiway when someone is seems to have car trouble.
Choosing a job that involves less confrontation.
Not letting people into my house who knock on my door, etc.

Sometimes you have no choice when it comes time for a confrontation.

Bill Cosby's son would have gladly given his killer his car, but the killer wanted no witnesses. If you are an unarmed man in close-range gunfight, there is only one outcome.

Kenny,

I don't think you need a gun, nor do I think that I am doing you any service by owning many. Enjoy your peaceful life. You are very fortunate to not have a job or have had any life experiences that would drive you to purchasing one.

Though now I am a bit confused because t.v. has taught me that you gay guys like men that are packing heat! Was Will and Grace wrong?!


God bless and be careful.

I don't watch TV, but I suspect TV isn't a very good source of information.

Posted by Jolly:

That didn't answer the question, but thanks for trying.

As I said, I'm not necessarily advocating complete pacifism in the face of violence, but that is the course I think Jesus took. And how strange that it is primarily the Christians on this forum who are so unwilling to put their faith in prayer, as Jesus did, and instead engage in wholly unChrist-like behavior.

Is your faith in the power of prayer so shaky?

Think Peter took along that sword to pick his teeth? Think Jesus had him guard the gate with a scowling demeanor, and little else?

Sometimes a prayer demands wings.

Is your faith so shaky that it cannot stand the Truth?

One in a hundred, one in a thousand, one in a million, who knows what the odds are? It is not the hundred or the thousand or the million, but the one that is bad. It just takes one.

I have seen people come to the work place armed with bats, machetes, knives, bare fisted and with guns, with the intent to exact revenge on someone in the company, myself included.

I once discharged a second shift boiler operator for multiple violations of sleeping on the job. The first night on the job for his replacement, the guy came back and stuck a shotgun loaded with deer slugs through a security fence and shot him twice. The man that got shot wasn't the intended victim, I was. I normally would have been there but I got delayed by less than 5 minutes. The guy decided that since he came there to shoot someone, he might as well shoot someone and popped a poor young kid.

I took a break from work one evening and went to a local restaurant for dinner. A man wielding a 10” Rambo knife who said he was going to kill me for laying off his wife at work interrupted my dinner. The gentleman was the president of the local Lucifer's Laymen motorcycle club, and he looked and dressed the part. The stupid thing about this was his wife was laid off for only 2 days along with 75% of the employees because of our annual inventory. The guy had a long record of assaults and had even plea-bargained a murder charge down to involuntary manslaughter, and was on probation for that at the time. If I had been sitting with my back to the door, or my 38 hadn't made a more convincing argument than his knife, things may have turned out different. He did serve 30 days for the incident.

I discharged an employee that went berserk and was destroying a million dollar machine with a 36” pipe wrench. Upon his discharge he walked across the street to a neighbors porch , took down their swing and hung himself with the chain. He could have just as easy went the other way and decided to take someone with him.

I could give you 10 or 20 more pages of the same thing from over 40 years. The world isn't as lily white as some of you think. Read the damn papers, this happens multiple times every day in the U.S. and it is increasing. I don't know what the odds are, but they are getting worse.

lb

The difference in our thinking Larry, and others. Is that you are feeding off the energy around you. We live in a world like you guys have described...by the way I never made it sound like the world was happy and nice, I know the harsh reality...and the problem is instead of trying to change things for the better you add to the problem by fighting guns with more guns. That is why we have such a problem in the U.S. right now with gun violence. Everybody thinks it is their answer to the situation. I would argue that their is really not much difference between the heroic gun wielder and the average criminal. Both think it's going to bring them control to a tense situation. Some criminal comes up on a women at a bank machine, he needs money, what faster better way of getting it then threatening the lady with her life...boom he's got control. Some sick perverted guy wants some women threatens her with his gun, now he's got control. Some gang member wants to prove himself, takes out a gun and waves it at his enemy to show his strength. And the normal gun owning citizen buys his gun just so that when he sees a dangerous situation he can take out His gun and have control. So the streets feel up with a bunch of people owning guns so that when they feel it's appropriate they can whip it out and quickly be
in control. A bunch of individual mind sets coming together to create a society where guns and armed power rule the streets...no wonder I feel left out.

I would also argue that the normal ever day citizen isn't even that far a way from turning into a criminal. many people that find themselves in desperate situations and a gun is the easiest way for them to get what they need. Crisis can strike at anytime and sane people can snap quickly. If somebody all of the sudden loses the money and feels the need to rob to protect their family...or shoot their neighbor cause he cheated with his wife a gun can be a quick way to "fix" the problem. I mean you can not deny road rage instances where two gun wielders cross each others path get upset at each other and one lunatic who gets impatient with the yelling contest pulls out a gun to prove his point then the other guy pulls out his in defense and you end up with an unnecessary death.

It all boils down to trying to have control over various situations that may come to pass and to feel in control you need to have a gun. For the criminal to feel in control he needs to have a gun and unfortunately the harsh reality is we live in a society that if you don't have a gun and you find your self in a scary situation you may lose. I don't argue nor deny that the world is scary place...but I do argue that to bring major change you have to start small, you have to start individually. I would rather live a little illogically and avoid the use of weapons or violence knowing I am above that.

I know it may be a bit obvious but a prime example of this sort of change is the effect Ghandi had when India gained it's independence from Great Britain. It was illogical, it was risky, but it not only paid off but showed the world how peace can prevail in the long run if everybody takes a stand.

a common error...standing outside the barn. Go inside and take a shot. You'll find that your accuracy is much improved.

Best wishes.

Ken

Control?

Don't think so. More along the lines of using a tool to get out of a jam, and give myself a fighting chance.

Think the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto were looking for control, as they fought the Wermacht? Or did they just not want to go quietly into that dark night? I'm sure the SS would have appreciated the Ghandi-type route...

lb

www.monster.com

Practically nil.

Why? I'm sorry I just don't understand how you've been witness to more than one shooting.

Practically nil.

Wow, I never give it a thought personally, but then I don't need to. Are there many places in the State where that's not the case?

I would rather live a little illogically and avoid the use of weapons or violence knowing I am above that.

So... are you saying that those who carry guns for their protection are beneath you?

Say this out loud a few times..... If I take the guns away from civil society, the only ones who will have guns are the criminals".

I know it may be a bit obvious but a prime example of this sort of change is the effect Ghandi had when India gained it's independence from Great Britain. It was illogical, it was risky, but it not only paid off but showed the world how peace can prevail in the long run if everybody takes a stand.

Wow..... India being such a peaceful place and all... I didn't know India had a zero crime rate!

The difference in our thinking Larry, and others. Is that you are feeding off the energy around you.

Snap, you seriously don't get it. I'm not "feeding" off any "energy around me". I just know that (guessing) 1 out of 20 people I meet have the potential to intend me or mine harm. I have the good sense to realize that if you take guns away from the civil and the sane, the only ones who will have guns are the uncivil and insane. And they have no problem using guns. The violent world you want to eliminate by eliminating guns from the equation will light up the night sky as thugs and criminals have a field day, like shooting fish in a barrel.

You aren't going to *get* everyone to take a stand, Snap. In even thinking that's possible, you prove my point, that you think everyone is like you. You comfort yourself by thinking you are "above it all", totally oblivious to the fact that just as you can cite example of innocent people being killed by a gun, there are just as many examples of people who survived because of a gun.

There are bad places, and bad people, anywhere you care to go.

If I happen to be in those places, I'd just as soon be prepared. One never looks for trouble, and should avoid it at all costs.

But sometimes, even in the most unusual and seemingly safe places, trouble comes looking.

If you were talking about the UK I'd say it sounds like paranoia. Are you saying that carrying a gun in the US is far more of a necessity than in the UK? What do you think of the fact that here, we are not allowed to carry guns?

What do you think of this statistic?

In 1996, 30 people were killed with handguns in Great Britain, 106 in Canada and 211 in Germany. In the U.S., 9,390 died this way. In Japan, 15.

Even bearing in mind the huge difference in population, the US still has a wildly disproportionate amount of gun crime.

The U.S. does have more gun crime.

But Britian has a good bit of violent crime - it just doesn't involve firearms. It involves clubs, knives, bare knuckles.

And while the crime rate in the U.S has seemed to stabilize, despite a rapidly growing population, I think you'll find Britian's violent crime problem is still escalating.

Y'all just don't do it with guns...

Why am I not as afraid as you gun owners?

Sorry, but it almost sounds like paranoia to me.

Or, if you guys are right maybe I, and every other American, really am naive and I need more education, and then guns.

No, everybody doesn't need a gun. Some folks are just ill-suited to weapons of any kind. Some are too quick to use them, and some are too slow, and some are so fumble-fingered they'd hurt themselves.

But on the whole, an armed society is a polite society.

Kenny,

I don't think the gun owners are afraid. There is a sense of security that comes from having a say in one's own destiny - even if it may turn out to be an illusion (i.e. the gun won't help when the volcano blows...).

There was a wonderful story on 20/20 of a man at home with his young son. A pair of teenage thrillseekers decided that they were going to kill the next people they met. They cased the house, cut the phone lines and one rang the bell.

The homeowner was suspicious - and picked up his Glock. He answered the door. The young man at the door told him a story about how he had some car trouble and wanted to use the phone. The guy offered to call for him, but wouldn't let him in.
The kid was just about to force himself in when the man moved the Glock to a place where the teenager could see what was in the man's hand.

- end of story -- except the kids just went to a very nice older couple's home and killed them...

I'm not saying for everyone...not so much fear, as choice...

Ken