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#756066 - 12/21/04 08:06 AM Ethical?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Is it ethical for members/former members of this site to solicit PW members for a competing Piano Forum site?
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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Piano & Music Accessories
#756067 - 12/21/04 08:15 AM Re: Ethical?
mound Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 782
Loc: Rochester, NY
ethical? competing?

I cross reference pianoforum.net on this site all the time.

I didn't know there was any competition involved.. They are all resources, use them as you wish.

-Paul
_________________________
"You look hopefully for an idea and then you're humble when you find it and you wish your skills were better. To have even a half-baked touch of creativity is an honor."
-- Ernie Stires, composer

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#756068 - 12/21/04 08:17 AM Re: Ethical?
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
No.
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-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#756069 - 12/21/04 08:20 AM Re: Ethical?
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
Yes. Let the free market decide. :p
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#756070 - 12/21/04 08:24 AM Re: Ethical?
markjpcs Offline


Registered: 08/31/04
Posts: 3170
Loc: Wisconsin
a non-issue IMO.
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#756071 - 12/21/04 08:31 AM Re: Ethical?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by mound:
ethical? competing?

I cross reference pianoforum.net on this site all the time.

I didn't know there was any competition involved.. They are all resources, use them as you wish.

-Paul [/b]
I used the word solicit. There is a difference between mentioning a site, and actively soliciting members.

Is it ethical to solicit?
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#756072 - 12/21/04 08:42 AM Re: Ethical?
Dan Offline


Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 1031
Loc: Colorado
Round here, you can get picked up on East Colfax for soliciting ...


As for other sites, mentioning is ok, saying it's a cool site is fine, soliciting members from here is *ALSO* fine provided there is no money involved on either side (i.e. loss of $ here or gain of $ there). Since it's almost impossible to figure out that last bit about money, that makes solicting a gray area IMO.

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#756073 - 12/21/04 08:53 AM Re: Ethical?
AaronSF Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/07/04
Posts: 732
Loc: San Francisco
When a forum gets as big as this one, splinter groups will naturally form. I see nothing wrong with someone creating another group and inviting people they think might be interested to join. It doesn't mean people have to choose between one or the other, though they might. Does this group actually exist? Is it seeking to recruit people away from PW, or just recruit people from PW? If it exists, why was it created? What motivated its creation?

There's lots to consider (and much more information needed) before I could decide on the ethicality of it.
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Aaron

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#756074 - 12/21/04 08:56 AM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
I think the best way to deal with that issue is to abide by the rules Frank has established. I think the applicable rule is this one:

 Quote:
What Is/Isn't Allowed?
We are a family-oriented web site. Please be careful what you post. Keep it clean, refrain from vulgarity or slander.
The Coffee Room is a little more open than the other forums, but even here please keep in mind young children may access the threads.
For more details about what you should/shouldn't post, please see this...
Be Careful What You Post!
There might also be some prohibition against spamming/selling things (although I couldn't find one), but that's not applicable to the situation you describe, I think.

The only way it wouldn't be OK would be if Frank decided it wasn't. So far, he hasn't so far as I know.
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#756075 - 12/21/04 09:12 AM Re: Ethical?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
I never saw it before. It's hilarious! They are a bunch of people with absolutely nothing to say.

Some old favorites are there. To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum... [/b]

You gotta love 'um. \:D

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#756076 - 12/21/04 09:25 AM Re: Ethical?
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. \:D

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#756077 - 12/21/04 09:27 AM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
might thin some of the riffraff.. might be a good thing...
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756078 - 12/21/04 09:33 AM Re: Ethical?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. \:D [/b]
Kind of the Dark Matter Piano World. Everything in black and hard to read. I'm going to join as a sockpuppet, they won't know it's me till it's too late. HA HA HA!

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#756079 - 12/21/04 09:34 AM Re: Ethical?
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13706
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I agree with Matt. It's the internet forum version of a free market. Besides, a little attrition never hurt anybody.
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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

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#756080 - 12/21/04 09:36 AM Re: Ethical?
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
I never saw it before. It's hilarious! They are a bunch of people with absolutely nothing to say.

Some old favorites are there. To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum... [/b]

You gotta love 'um. \:D [/b]


I just wrote this nice long post, and it was deleted because of an internet error. I HATE THAT!!!!

Anyway, I was just making fun of that other website, regarding the issues that they were addressing; ones that we talk about all the time in here, except in here we contribute on a MUCH higher intellectual level. (as compared to what I saw there)

For example they would have stuff like:

"What do you think of this homosexuality topic?"

You might as well have:

"Has anyone heard of this Inter-Net technology?"

"What do you think about this Iraq war?"

or

"Has anyone ever listened to Rachmaninoff 3?"

Haha!
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#756081 - 12/21/04 09:40 AM Re: Ethical?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I think the best way to deal with... snip... but that's not applicable to the situation you describe, I think.

The only way it wouldn't be OK would be if Frank decided it wasn't. So far, he hasn't so far as I know. [/b]
Point taken.

That which is not expressly forbidden is implicitly condoned.

Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#756082 - 12/21/04 09:42 AM Re: Ethical?
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Is it ethical? Don't know.

Does it matter? No.

It's not like PW is at any risk. \:D [/b]
Kind of the Dark Matter Piano World. Everything in black and hard to read. I'm going to join as a sockpuppet, they won't know it's me till it's too late. HA HA HA! [/b]
Hmmm, that gives me an idea! We should form a large gang of normal CR members (30 or so) and just go over and terrorize that forum, and run them outta town! This is OUR turf!
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#756083 - 12/21/04 09:45 AM Re: Ethical?
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
Is it ethical for members/former members of this site to solicit PW members for a competing Piano Forum site? [/b]
If you're talking about pianoforum.net, it's not a competing site. This site is geared more towards the technical end, and pianoforum.net is more toward pianists. The members tend to be a lot younger too.

I've been a member of pianoforum.net for almost as long as I've been a member here. I've never solicited any members from one forum to another. I don't think it's wrong to encourage people to post in another related, but not competing, forum.

I've gotten information from the other forum that I would not have gotten here, and the reverse is true.

It's non-issue.

Both Nils at pianoforum.net, and Frank at PianoWorld are busy people, and they don't need trouble made over this.

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#756084 - 12/21/04 09:54 AM Re: Ethical?
Axtremus Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 6150
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom--K:

... To give you an idea of the tone of the place, check out this post from kathyk:

Okay, I'll start off saying this is not original - I got the idea from another unamed forum... [/b]
You stalk her all the way to that other site? You must really miss her, a lot! \:D
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www.PianoRecital.org -- my piano recordings

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#756085 - 12/21/04 09:56 AM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i miss kathy too... such a stubborn woman
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756086 - 12/21/04 10:00 AM Re: Ethical?
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
I'm gonna be bluntly frank. The only ones I regret leaving are Benedict, Shantinik and Ariel. The rest of the 'dearly departed' had little or nothing original to say.
_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#756087 - 12/21/04 10:07 AM Re: Ethical?
Dan Offline


Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 1031
Loc: Colorado
"Nils at pianoforum.net"??!!! As in Nils Luerhman?! Gee, why isn't Steve Cohen a charter member over there?!! \:D

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#756088 - 12/21/04 10:19 AM Re: Ethical?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Nah, different Nils. (And to show you how arcane our comments are, there probably aren't ten folks here who could tell you who Luehrman was... \:D )
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#756089 - 12/21/04 10:36 AM Re: Ethical?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
i miss kathy too... such a stubborn woman [/b]
Not to say anything bad about the dearly departed, but kathyk was crazy. Towards the end there she really was something of a screaming lunatic.

All and all, those guys will be very happy in a moderated forum in the same way the would be very happy in a moderated America. Big Brother watching and lots and lots of rules to follow.

God bless them each and every one. \:\)

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#756090 - 12/21/04 10:39 AM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#756091 - 12/21/04 11:08 AM Re: Ethical?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
I beg to differ.

This site is free, granted. Yet...when folks drop in on the best piano boards on the net, they hopefully add a bit of commerce to Frank's pockets. Maybe they buy a copy of The Piano Book . I once read that this site sells more of that tome than does Larry Fine's own site.

Or maybe they purchase something from Frank's store, or perhaps they list their piano on the Pianos for Sale section.

But I think the forums are the initial draw.

I've never had a problem with folks mentioning other boards. I used to be on Mr. Land's board quite a bit, as were a couple of others around here. And there are more than a few old rmmp'er roomers here, like Larry, Rich, or Dwain.

However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.

And yes, I do find that to be a bit beyond the pale, if the modus operandi is the PM function on this board, and the gathering of our publicly displayed email addresses.

Just because something is free, is not an absolution to leave one's ethics at the door.
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#756092 - 12/21/04 11:24 AM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
jeez -

_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756093 - 12/21/04 11:24 AM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

 Quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
jeez -

free for those who would take

[/b]
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756094 - 12/21/04 11:25 AM Re: Ethical?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
This site is free from the standpoint that you don't have to pay to join and use it. But this site is hardly "free".

Maybe it would help you to gain a clearer understanding of where you are, Cindy. The name of this site is PianoWorld, not Piano Forum. The main purpose of this site is to hopefully make a buck, not provide you and I a playground. Forums exist to drive up the hit count on the site. Obviously, they can serve a purpose which is also beneficial to the overall good of the site, which in the case of the piano forum is to provide a place for people to gain useful information when shopping for a piano, the pianist's corner where people can share information about playing the piano, etc. But those are the carrots - the main function forums serve is to drive up hit count, making the site come up higher up the food chain on a google search, and hopefully go to the areas where things are sold, and money is made.

On the one hand, this is a non issue from the standpoint that no one "owns" a poster, and everyone is free to visit whatever site they wish to visit. They are also free to recommend another site if they choose. I don't see a problem with that at all. To me, it comes down to intent. If someone is actively trying to drive people *away* from a forum to another one, while it may not be "against the law" so to speak, it is a most disgusting and tasteless act, and quite tacky at the very least.
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Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#756095 - 12/21/04 11:46 AM Re: Ethical?
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly:

quote:
Yet...what if the solicitation was monetarily damaging to Frank?
I don't think that is possible. This site is *free.*

Frank says so. [/b]
jeez -

free for those who would take

[/b]
[/b]
Don't you hate it when you try to edit a post but quote it instead?

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