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Topic Options
#756096 - 12/21/04 11:47 AM Re: Ethical?
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
yes
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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Piano & Music Accessories
#756097 - 12/21/04 11:54 AM Re: Ethical?
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Don't you hate it when you try to edit a post but quote it instead? [/b]
Yes, absolutely!
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#756098 - 12/21/04 11:54 AM Re: Ethical?
Nunatax Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/13/03
Posts: 704
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nunatax:
 Quote:
Originally posted by NAK:
Don't you hate it when you try to edit a post but quote it instead? [/b]
Yes, I do! It's horrible! [/b]
_________________________
Some can tell you to go to hell in such a manner that you would think you might actually enjoy the trip, but that is far more polite than civil - JBryan

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#756099 - 12/21/04 12:11 PM Re: Ethical?
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.[/b]
What are you talking about? What couple of things have you read? I've not seen any active solicitations to a competing board...?

Besides, Frank himself put a "Other Piano Sites" link in here, and there are at least a dozen sites that people have put in there that are related to pianos, so they must be "competing" in some way with Piano World.

I doubt that Frank would have created the site if he was worried about competition.

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#756100 - 12/21/04 12:36 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Yes, Jolly. Do favor us with an explanation that shows there is some unethical conspiracy going on. I don't rememeber being asked to sign a loyalty oath to post here. We are all free to post here and anywhere else we'd like, I'm sure you'd agree.

As for whether this site is free, yes, it is free. There is no obligation to spend one penny that benefits PW. If Frank would like it some other way, I think he should say so. So far, he has not, and indeed seems to have said the opposite.

Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change? Having a subscription logo next to one's name isn't a license to dictate policy, pull rank or set ethical standards around here. IMHO.

This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#756101 - 12/21/04 12:39 PM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
here we go again.... :rolleyes:

2 other places to play, and you have to complain here......

YOUR arguing is nauseating Cindy \:\)

edit: formerly stated for her honor..

as is YOUR sense of entitlement...

double edit:

and attitude.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756102 - 12/21/04 12:48 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Apple:

 Quote:
here we go again....

2 other places to play, and you have to complain here......

your arguing is nauseating Cindy

edit: formerly stated for her honor..

as is your sense of entitlement...
Apple, I don't understand what's gotten under your skin or why you are interjecting yourself into this discussion for the sole purpose of heckling me.

I am a member of dozens of discussion groups, and I think Jolly is misguided to imply there is anything wrong with people joining other groups. Jolly did ask the question, and as a member here, I thought it appropriate to provide my opinion. I think I have been polite and civil and I haven't attacked him or you.

So why are you bugging me?

Cindy -- thinking it is quite peculiar for people on the one hand to point out that this site costs money to run yet on the other hand be upset with people if they *don't* use PW's bandwidth
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

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#756103 - 12/21/04 12:49 PM Re: Ethical?
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Having a subscription logo next to one's name isn't a license to dictate policy, pull rank or set ethical standards around here. IMHO.[/b]
In fact, I know some people here who have paid Frank, but chose to not display any "subscription logo".

If you want to post to more than one forum, thats fine. But I think those who exclusively post here A) have their posts respected more and B) have better friendships.

I personally prefer to just post here, there really isn't a better bunch of people on the web. \:\)
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#756104 - 12/21/04 12:54 PM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Apple, I don't understand what's gotten under your skin or why you are interjecting yourself into this discussion for the sole purpose of heckling me.


[/b]
what are your honors rules? hmmmmm?

You deserve to be heckled today... Why don't you have a glass of tea.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756105 - 12/21/04 12:56 PM Re: Ethical?
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Jolly did ask the question, and as a member here, I thought it appropriate to provide my opinion. I think I have been polite and civil and I haven't attacked him or you.[/b]
Welcome neighbor!! \:D

My opinion is constantly attacked when I present it in a civil manner, so just don't let it get to you. If you know that you are being polite and mature, then there isn't much else you can do, so stay strong cindy! Whether I agree with it or not, you are rarely out of line (if ever) so please continue to express your opinion! \:\)
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#756106 - 12/21/04 12:56 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
 Quote:


what are your honors rules? hmmmmm?

You deserve to be heckled today... Why don't you have a glass of tea.
Apple?

Honest to goodness, I don't know what on earth you are even talking about. I can see you're trying to be nasty for some reason, but I have no idea what I could have done to offend you so badly.

Let's make a deal. You don't respond to my messages and I won't respond to yours.

How about it?
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#756107 - 12/21/04 12:59 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
89th:

 Quote:
Welcome neighbor!!
Hee!

Yes, you're right. S*** happens.

Here's something to raise your blood pressure, 89th. . . .

I still haven't backed up my computer.

Pretty irresonsible, no? ;\)

Cindy -- who will do it before this week
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

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#756108 - 12/21/04 12:59 PM Re: Ethical?
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jolly:
However, from a couple of things I've read, there seems to be an active solicitation movement going on, to a competing board.

And yes, I do find that to be a bit beyond the pale, if the modus operandi is the PM function on this board, and the gathering of our publicly displayed email addresses.

Just because something is free, is not an absolution to leave one's ethics at the door. [/QB]
Jolly, I, too, would like some examples of what you're talking about. Because, if this is true, I couldn't agree with you more.
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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#756109 - 12/21/04 01:04 PM Re: Ethical?
The 89th Key Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2400
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
[QUOTE] Let's make a deal. You don't respond to my messages and I won't respond to yours.

How about it? [/b]
Wouldn't her acceptance of that deal simultaneously cause her to break it? \:D

The 89th Key - who will come back up Cindy's computer this weekend if she doesn't do it soon! (No Tom, that wasn't a metaphorical statement )
_________________________
-The 89th Key

www.thecollegecritic.com
--- Integrity | Loyalty | Simplicity ---[/b]

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#756110 - 12/21/04 01:05 PM Re: Ethical?
jgoo Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/23/01
Posts: 3974
Loc: Seattle, Washington, USA
TomK: As if clowns weren't already scary enough! Yikes!!! \:D
_________________________
For off-topic discussion, please feel free to visit www.coffee-room.com

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#756111 - 12/21/04 01:05 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Well, I'll come clean and reveal I was just thinking about PM'ing the avowed Harry Potter fans here and inviting them to a Harry Potter discussion group I know about.

But I guess that would be highly unethical . . . So I'd better not!

Bad Cindy, Bad Cindy! \:\)
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#756112 - 12/21/04 01:05 PM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I am responding Cindy because I wish to counterbalance what you've publicly written...

So, I guess there is no deal..at least on my part. I hope you understand.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756113 - 12/21/04 01:07 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
89th:

 Quote:
Wouldn't her acceptance of that deal simultaneously cause her to break it?
**DOH!!**

Curses. Foiled again.
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...QvjrL_blog.html

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#756114 - 12/21/04 01:15 PM Re: Ethical?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
Yes, Jolly. Do favor us with an explanation that shows there is some unethical conspiracy going on. I don't rememeber being asked to sign a loyalty oath to post here. We are all free to post here and anywhere else we'd like, I'm sure you'd agree.

As for whether this site is free, yes, it is free. There is no obligation to spend one penny that benefits PW. If Frank would like it some other way, I think he should say so. So far, he has not, and indeed seems to have said the opposite.

Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change? Having a subscription logo next to one's name isn't a license to dictate policy, pull rank or set ethical standards around here. IMHO.

This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating. [/b]
One is free to post on any free site that will have them. That is not my point. I explicitly stated that I used to romp around on Mr. Land's board a bit, and I've got a short post on rmmp right now.

My question was about the ethics of solicitation.

Nothing was said in my post about forum-support, or entitlement of those who do send Frank money for forum support.

If you'd like to wade through a few posts on the other board, please do so. EHpianist was the one that caught my eye. And to thoroughly absolve Elena, she may not have even referenced this board in particular - it may have been another she was talking about.

That does not change the essential premise of this thread-starter, however.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#756115 - 12/21/04 01:23 PM Re: Ethical?
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
Ms. A happens to meet Ms. B at a quiet neighborhood restaurant. It's a nice restaurant that serves the kind of food they both enjoy. They both become regular patrons of this restaurant, as do a number of other people. Ms. A and Ms. B have a lot in common, so they tend to talk to each other quite frequently at this restaurant. The other regular patrons have similar personal affinities for one another, and also for the genial owner of the place.

As time passes, Ms. A and Ms. B, along with the whole consort of regular patrons become quite familiar with each other and feel comfortable in this restaurant. Ms. A happens to love the corned beef and Ms. B truly enjoys the dumplings. Then, things start happening with the supplies to the restaurant, things beyond the owner's control. Corned beef disappears from the menu, and the dumplings can only be had on Wednesdays.

Ms. A and Ms. B both continue to go to the restaurant, though, because they are comfortable there. Then, the restaurant is split into smoking and non-smoking sections, and tensions develop between the smokers and non-smokers. The restaurant becomes less and less conducive to the type of fellowship Ms. A and Ms. B enjoy, and neither can get the type of food they really like there anymore.

Ms. B suggests to Ms. A that they try a new restaurant down the street that serves corned beef and dumplings. That's your 'free market' at work. Is there something ethically amiss in this scenario? Do either Ms. A or Ms. B have any reason to keep going to the same old restaurant? Should they be harassed if they do? Should they feel guilty for going to another restaurant? Should the patrons at the old restaurant feel slighted? Answer these questions and you'll be better prepared to answer the issue of any ethical propriety.

(2004 by Analogies "B" Us)
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#756116 - 12/21/04 01:23 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Yes, but several of us want to know the facts concerning this alleged solicitation. Will you or will you not provide them?

 Quote:
If you'd like to wade through a few posts on the other board, please do so.
**A-HA!!** You just solicited me!

Was it good for you too?
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

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#756117 - 12/21/04 01:24 PM Re: Ethical?
Nina Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 6467
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Jolly-- are you saying that people on another forum are soliciting people on that forum to stay on that forum rather than come over here?

What's so unethical about that? That's not exactly what I would call a "solicitation."

On the other hand, maybe I'm not following you. If so, in the words of Emily Litella, "never mind."

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#756118 - 12/21/04 01:34 PM Re: Ethical?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Cindy, I would imagine what's bothering Apple is the same thing that's bothering me. I don't know if you simply ignore things, or if you purposely miss the point and argue an irrelevant tangent on purpose, or simply aren't capable of comprehending. It's one of the three, I just can't decide which one it is.

Take "free". I cannot believe you aren't smart enough to separate the distinct difference between free for you to use from free meaning the site costs nothing. In choosing to focus on the "free for you to use" aspect, you completely miss the entire point, and go off on a tangent. Then, in spite of your claims of "civility", you take a swipe at those you disagree with with your snide remark, "This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating." That's hardly being civil, but I suppose from the etherworld you have contorted your logic into, you have justified that one as well.

Then you hit us with your favorite little dodge, "Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change?" Are you of the opinion that Frank is the only one here with any common sense? Do you really not understand commerce, or are you purposely trying to create friction? Frank doesn't have to "speak" for thinking people to be able to understand the simple logic that this place is not free, or that the forums provide hit count to his website. This is "internet business 101", Cindy. If you really don't understand it, then stop taking swipes at people and let them educate you. If you *do* understand it, stop purposely trying to confuse the issue, and stop taking mean swipes at people and then standing back claiming to be an innocent victim. You were *not* "civil".
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#756119 - 12/21/04 01:37 PM Re: Ethical?
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
Well, that sure was personal. :rolleyes:
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#756120 - 12/21/04 01:41 PM Re: Ethical?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
No, it wasn't personal. It was written in the same spirit of civility that Cindy's post was.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#756121 - 12/21/04 01:42 PM Re: Ethical?
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
No, it was not.
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#756122 - 12/21/04 01:43 PM Re: Ethical?
Cindysphinx Offline


Registered: 02/14/03
Posts: 6416
Loc: Washington D.C. Metro
Larry, your post had nothing whatever to do with the so-called ethics of people inviting others to join them at another internet forum. People can post where they want, and they can invite others to post anyplace they'd like. That anyone would find this objectionable (on the facts presented) means that person has an agenda or a control issue or something.

I mean, did you even read Matt's post?

And yes, I do think some folks here should stop acting as though they are devising and executing Frank's business plan. 'Cause they're not. And all they're doing is causing (more) trouble with a bunch of unsubstantiated paranoia. IMHO, of course.

I do think you should consider expressing your concerns about solicitation directly to Frank. Maybe he'd agree and would post a new rule or some such.

 Quote:
Cindy, I would imagine what's bothering Apple is the same thing that's bothering me. I don't know if you simply ignore things, or if you purposely miss the point and argue an irrelevant tangent on purpose, or simply aren't capable of comprehending. It's one of the three, I just can't decide which one it is.

Take "free". I cannot believe you aren't smart enough to separate the distinct difference between free for you to use from free meaning the site costs nothing. In choosing to focus on the "free for you to use" aspect, you completely miss the entire point, and go off on a tangent. Then, in spite of your claims of "civility", you take a swipe at those you disagree with with your snide remark, "This sense of entitlement some here display is beyond nauseating." That's hardly being civil, but I suppose from the etherworld you have contorted your logic into, you have justified that one as well.

Then you hit us with your favorite little dodge, "Why don't you guys let Frank speak for himself for a change?" Are you of the opinion that Frank is the only one here with any common sense? Do you really not understand commerce, or are you purposely trying to create friction? Frank doesn't have to "speak" for thinking people to be able to understand the simple logic that this place is not free, or that the forums provide hit count to his website. This is "internet business 101", Cindy. If you really don't understand it, then stop taking swipes at people and let them educate you. If you *do* understand it, stop purposely trying to confuse the issue, and stop taking mean swipes at people and then standing back claiming to be an innocent victim. You were *not* "civil".
_________________________
Vote For Cindy!!

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#756123 - 12/21/04 01:48 PM Re: Ethical?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
I don't think a rule needs to be made........ people should know better.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#756124 - 12/21/04 01:49 PM Re: Ethical?
Matt G. Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 3789
Loc: Plainfield, IL
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple*:
I don't think a rule needs to be made........ people should know better. [/b]
Fine, I'll never publicly or privately suggest that anyone go to another restaurant. I'll just go.
_________________________
Sacred cows make the best hamburger. - Clemens

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#756125 - 12/21/04 01:51 PM Re: Ethical?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Larry, your post had nothing whatever to do with the so-called ethics of people inviting others to join them at another internet forum. People can post where they want, and they can invite others to post anyplace they'd like. That anyone would find this objectionable (on the facts presented) means that person has an agenda or a control issue or something.[/b]

Excuse me, but it had *everything* to do with it. To quote from my post:

"On the one hand, this is a non issue from the standpoint that no one "owns" a poster, and everyone is free to visit whatever site they wish to visit. They are also free to recommend another site if they choose. I don't see a problem with that at all."

I mean, did you even read Matt's post?[/b]

I wasn't addressing Matt's post. I was addressing your's.
_________________________
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