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#764629 - 10/05/04 06:03 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
A God that didn't allow a large number of people to express themselves sexually, would be a pretty cruel God, and in fact, a religion that preached such cruelty, would likely not be a good candidate for the True Religion. Saying that being homosexual is not a sin, but acting on homosexual feelings is (not for a limited period of life, but for the whole of one's life), is a cop out, and we all know this.

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#764630 - 10/05/04 06:25 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
KlavierBauer Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 3773
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
Jeffrey,
I disagree and I feel this logic shows a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of Christianity.

God allows large numbers of people (all of us in fact) to do whatever we want to. It is called freewill.

If my statement was a cop-out, and "we all know this", and I made it, then are you calling me a liar? Insincere?
You're putting a tone on my words that I did not put into them, and you're not even trying to understand what I might mean by those words.

God is not cruel, God is love. God loves all of us, but to imply that he must also then condone all of our actions is silly.

Rather than write another essay, I'll just say that if you would like to better understand what I'm talking about, I would be happy to take the time to write something that I feel explains this concept (sin) better.
But if you're just posting to make me look dumb I will just leave things as they are. I think most of us are all on the same page now, at least in terms of conduct towards one another.
_________________________
Outlive Yourself - Become an Organ Donor

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#764631 - 10/05/04 06:31 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
But God also abhors sin[/b]

But do you subscribe to the notion that some sins are more sinful than other sins, sort of a hierarchy of sins (and I'm not saying you do, just using this to start my thoughts)? Like, if the sin is just a tiny one, God is just sort of displeased, do one a little worse, and he gets a little more displeased? That won't fly when you're told that just *looking* at a woman lustfully is the same sin as committing adultery.

If sin is sin, and simply lusting after a woman in you heart is the same sin as committing adultery with her, then every married man here is an adulterer. Stealing an ink pen at the bank is the same as robbing their vaults. Now - the Bible says a man lying with a man is an "abomination". I looked that word up in the dictionary, and it is defined as "disgusting". So - homosexuality is a disgusting sin. Ok. But does that make it a *bigger* sin than oh.... lying to your wife? One could argue that it is, but you won't find any Biblical support for it. In fact, the only sin that is held out as having its own category is the sin of blasphemy. Definition: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God. 2: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable Now - I've seen a few folks here who have blasphemed God. And Biblically that is the only sin considered to be a "bigger" sin than the others. So we now have sin, disgusting sin, and the ultimate sin of blasphemy - but only two "levels" of sin.

Next, God hates the sin, but loves the sinner. Lying to your wife or committing an act of homosexuality, according to the Bible, are both equally hated sins. Both sins can be forgiven.

Neither sin is "worse" than the other, but one is described as "disgusting". I can't find anything to support the notion that a sin being disgusting makes it as bad as blasphemy, or even "worse" than any other sin. But I *can* find support for the idea that "he who is without sin, let him cast the first stone".

It is not my place to judge anyone, whether it be the guy cheating on his wife, the guy who steals pens from work, or the guy who is sexually attracted to another man. I see it as a sin, but absolving you from sin is not my job. And to my homosexual friends on the board, I'm sure you'll understand me when I say I find it a "disgusting" sin, much as you probably find my penchant for pretty, trim blonde females disgusting. But I don't judge you for it. As a Christian, unworthy to be in the middle of this post by the way, my job is only to tell you that God loves you, he came to earth as a human to die for your sins and mine, and as unworthy as I am in my *own* sins, I am to tell you the good news that we have a way to be saved from our sins. Beyond that, how you deal with your sins is none of my business, nor is how I deal with my sins anyone else's. That's for you and God to hash out. All I want you to know is that God's house is big enough for everyone. And he wants me to welcome you into it.

No one here can claim to be without sin, no sin is "bigger" than another, and God loves us all. Coming to a knowledge of God does not cause one to stop sinning. It simply causes us to realize what our sins are, and make us want to fix them. You fix yours, I'll fix mine. And we'll both strive to do better each day, letting God lead us. That's it.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#764632 - 10/05/04 07:05 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
KB - I do not think you are insincere. I hope you look at what you say, and what its implications are. I have no problem if you are religious. This may make you act in some ways rather than others. But when you use that religion to condemn others to a life devoid of sexual expression, you are wrong, and any God that required that would be cruel and sadistic. I hope you don't think the actual God (if there is one) requires this. Please think this through.

Larry's humble and sincere post, shows a consistency and clarity that is all too seldom shown by the religious posters on the topic of homosexuality.

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#764633 - 10/05/04 07:26 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
and any God that required that would be cruel and sadistic. [/b]
Ever read the Old Testament? Or the Koran, or the Upanishads or any other "holy" book? \:\) (I'm not involved in this part of the conversation one way or another, I'm just making a quick point.)

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#764634 - 10/05/04 07:32 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
NAK Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 2561
Loc: Canada

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#764635 - 10/05/04 07:51 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
TK - Yup. Remember God's judgement on the Amalekites? "Kill them man, woman, child, goat and ox, so that not a thing among them breatheth." Good stuff. Should be rated R for violence and banned for children. \:\) I am an atheist, so this is not an issue for me. I believe in freedom of religion and people should work out their view on the nature of the universe without governmental interference. I only object if someone wants to hide behind their religion, to stop other people from having any sexual expression whatsoever, using farcical arguments about loving the sinner but not the sin.

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#764636 - 10/05/04 08:07 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
It's hardly a farcical argument, Jeffrey. It's quite logical and quite lovingly enacted by thousands of believers who work in drug and alcohol treatment centers, homeless shelters, AIDS support centers, and many, many other settings, every single day of the year. You may not agree with it, or be able to make such a distinction, but the fact that so many can and do proves its possibility. I've never asked a single homeless person I was ladling out dinner to, if they lost their home and their job because of poor life choices, or if they were married to the other parent of any of the string of children that were also being fed.

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#764637 - 10/05/04 08:13 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
It seems like if you are a Christian speaking to a non-Christian you should not bring *any* aspects of your religion in the discussion.
It is inconsiderate to assume everyone shares your religious views.
You may as well just say, Blah Blah Blah.
The words have no meaning to the non-believer.

You may be very certain and clear on how important your religion is to the discussion.
But remember, that other person is not in your religion.

Unless, of course, you are attempting to convert the person.
Or it is a thread about religious doctrine.
Then go ahead and spice up the discussion with doctrine.

What if you were speaking to a person who speaks only English, but suddenly you started speaking German?
I donít care if you feel that German is the ultimate true language that everyone should speak.

Perhaps when you get the urge to put your religious views into a conversation just say, "My religious view are in conflict with that."
Take responsibility for your religious choices.

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#764638 - 10/05/04 08:15 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
ryan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/04/01
Posts: 1995
Loc: Colorado
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Now - the Bible says a man lying with a man is an "abomination".[/b]
True, but only as part of a lengthy description of an ancient legal system that has been long defunct. I do not feel inclined to judge myself based on archaic laws such as these. Otherwise I would be committing sin every time I inadvertently broke some portion that I am not familiar with, like eating shell fish, eating juicy red meat, or any other number of even smaller indescretions.

Jesus statement about "lust in the heart" was merely an attempt to show his culture how incapable they were of keeping such a law, especially when it judges a man's heart as well as his actions. I certainly don't feel condemned or guilty when I get a sudden "boost" by the site of a beautiful woman.

I think Jesus made it clear that the "true" law was summed up by two commands, love God with everything and love your neighbor as yourself. That is kindof hard for people who were raised up to hate themselves because they've been convinced (often violently) that their preferences and natural inclinations are somehow sinful.

Ryan

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#764639 - 10/05/04 08:18 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Good response, Ryan.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#764640 - 10/05/04 08:21 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
tcmod Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 862
Loc: NC
What I find remarkable is that anyone on either side of these arguments actually believes that they may speak on behalf of God. I believe that the bible is clear in that one will see people in heaven that they did not expect to see and not see those that they surely expected to see. I also believe that God is painted as a loving forgiving God and that our human capacity for forgiveness falls far short of His. On the flip side our capacity to condemn is probably much greater.

The bible condemns homosexuality and may even use an adjective with it. But it has not been shown to me conclusively that there was a ranking of sins. I was under the impression that a sin is a sin is a sin.

We are ALL sinners. Choose your poison.

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#764641 - 10/05/04 08:22 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
Dwain - "I've never asked a single homeless person I was ladling out dinner to, if they lost their home and their job because of poor life choices, or if they were married to the other parent of any of the string of children that were also being fed."

The topic was homosexuality. I retain my view that to say you love the sinner but not the sin in the particular case of homosexuality is farcical, since for gays not to "sin" would require them abandoning all sexual expression, for their entire lives. Maybe it isn't farcical in other cases, but it is in this one. Ordering someone to abandon all sexual expression to avoid sin, is hate, not love, however many fine phrases and religious goobledegook is used to cover over this basic fact. The anti-gays repeatedly ignore this fundamental point.

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#764642 - 10/05/04 08:26 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
ryan "Otherwise I would be committing sin every time I inadvertently broke some portion that I am not familiar with, like eating shell fish, eating juicy red meat, or any other number of even smaller indescretions."

Good point. I will believe that people who spend time condemning gays based on religion are sincere (wrong, but sincere) when they also follow the other details of the holiness codes in Leviticus. Salvation (or not) is too important to have other people determine a matter of private belief about the nature of the cosmos and our place in it.

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#764643 - 10/05/04 08:33 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:
It seems like if you are a Christian speaking to a non-Christian you should not bring *any* aspects of your religion in the discussion.
It is inconsiderate to assume everyone shares your religious views.
You may as well just say, Blah Blah Blah.
The words have no meaning to the non-believer.
[/b]
And according to your reasoning kenny, a homosexual should never bring any aspect of his sexuality up to a hetero--because it's inconsideratel and he may as well be saying blah, blah, blah.

Makes sense to me. So let's end all this talk of gay marriages right here!

\:D

Sorry kenny, your plan ain't gunna work \:\( \:D

 Quote:
Posted by Jeffery: Good point. I will believe that people who spend time condemning gays based on religion are sincere (wrong, but sincere) when they also follow the other details of the holiness codes in Leviticus. [/b]
For what it's worth, I have counseled a good number of gays the enter the Catholic Church and have counseled them to abstain from sex if they join the Church--almost all if not all seem fine with that arrangement. (I wouldn't be.) Who knows what goes on in people's hearts and heads?

(Oddly, you wouldn't think it from my performance her in the Coffee Room, but I councel a LOT of gays for some reason. )

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#764644 - 10/05/04 08:39 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
Tom, the only problem is religion is a choice.
Being gay is not.
That entitles gay people to equality.

You don't understand Tom.
This is above you.

Let's see, where have I read these condesending statements before? Hmmmm?

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#764645 - 10/05/04 08:41 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Jeffrey, as KB and many others have pointed out in the past, the Christian faith advocates a "lack of sexual expression" not only for homosexuals, but for any believer outside of marriage. This is hardly an expression of "hate." It is not gobbledegook, it is simple doctrine. My point applied to homosexuality as much as it does to the examples I cited earlier, or many others I could have mentioned. Please, if you are going to debate this issue, do not try to twist the issue into Christianity trying to "order" someone to engage, or not engage, in any behavior, or to categorize Christians as "the anti-gays." They're not. I have never seen anyone, Christian or otherwise, state on this forum that they favored a law or other regulation that made homosexuality illegal, or "ordering" homosexuals not to engage in homosexual acts.

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#764646 - 10/05/04 08:52 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
Dwain.
From what you describe, there is no room for me, unless I join your religion and never have sex for as long as I live.

That may as well be hate.
If it isn't hate, there are several other words for it.

I was made this way.
Dwain, why can't I have a life that is as happy and complete as yours?
Why are you good, and I'm bad?

Not fair.

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#764647 - 10/05/04 08:53 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:
Tom, the only problem is religion is a choice.
Being gay is not.
That entitles gay people to equality.

You don't understand Tom.
This is above you.

Let's see, where have I read these condesending statements before? Hmmmm? [/b]
kenny, the last time we discussed this I believe being gay was an abberation. \:D

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#764648 - 10/05/04 08:55 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
Not to me.

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#764649 - 10/05/04 09:01 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
Well this is going round for the millionth time.

12 o'clock here on the East coast--I'm going to bed.

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#764650 - 10/05/04 09:04 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
Nitie Nite Tom.

Tomorrow's another day. ;\)

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#764651 - 10/05/04 09:07 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:
It seems like if you are a Christian speaking to a non-Christian you should not bring *any* aspects of your religion in the discussion.
It is inconsiderate to assume everyone shares your religious views.[/b]
Kenny, when someone states their opinion in this room, and even when they state that opinion is founded in their spiritual values, that does not mean that they assume that everyone shares those opinions. They are merely explaining the basis of their opinions.


 Quote:
You may as well just say, Blah Blah Blah.
The words have no meaning to the non-believer...[/b]
In one sense, you're absolutely correct. There is an aspect to the Christian theology of many denominations - TomK and I both belong to denominations that believe it, and we've both written about it before - that says that without the grace of God opening a person's heart to perceive the truths of the faith, it will in many ways be nonsensical, illogical, incomprehensible, completely impossible to really grasp - and trust me, despite your earlier assurances, you really don't "get it" as much as you think. However, that doesn't mean that we can't discuss issues together. Who knows; maybe some day, one of us will move his opinion a millimeter or two in one direction or the other. Hopefully, these exchanges will serve to make people more exposed to, and understanding of, those with different viewpoints.

To suggest that in a public forum like this, which was created for the free exchange of ideas, a person of faith should not offer any opinion, or touch on any issue, where their faith frames their thoughts, is absurd. By definition, to a person of faith, their religion is not something separate that they can put on or take off like a jacket. It is an integral part of their life, that affects every corner of their being. It's not something that can be checked at the door when walking into the room.

To tell religious people to check their faith at the door would be as ridiculous as someone telling you to check your sexuality at the door.

 Quote:
What if you were speaking to a person who speaks only English, but suddenly you started speaking German?
I donít care if you feel that German is the ultimate true language that everyone should speak. [/b]
If I'm going to engage with you about a subject, I'm going to try to speak to you in whatever "language" you understand. But that still doesn't guarantee that you'll understand every single point I make. If I want to further the conversation, and try to help you understand my point, I may keep talking to you, and maybe even try to teach you a phrase or two of my own "native tongue" by giving you a long, detailed explanation of something. I don't necessarily ask that you agree with it, and I'm certainly not "ordering" you to agree with me, but the explanation is made in the spirit of furthering understanding and the discussion at hand.

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#764652 - 10/05/04 09:30 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:
Dwain.
From what you describe, there is no room for me, unless I join your religion and never have sex for as long as I live.[/b]
No room for you where, Kenny?

All any Christian here with whom you disagree has said is that engaging in homosexual acts is not in keeping with their understainding of the Christian faith. I have seen no one trying to convert you to Christianity, not even to a denomination that shares your view of homosexuality. Only thoughts and viewpoints have been exchanged.

And again, the celibacy that would be required of you if you were a Christian is the same celibacy that is required of any other unmarried Christian. That's a really tough nut to crack, isn't it? But there it is. No one ever said that God's expectations for any of us has to be easy.

 Quote:
That may as well be hate.[/b]
That is your opinion; I respectfully disagree.

 Quote:
Dwain, why can't I have a life that is as happy and complete as yours?[/b]
You can, Kenny. Of course, I think you're making some assumptions about my life that are probably not accurate.

What makes you think, for instance, that I don't have aspects in my life that are every bit as difficult - impossible, actually - to avoid as you would find not engaging in homosexual acts? I can assure you that I do. The only difference is that, as I have in faith decided to follow Christ and to try to turn away from those portions of my life. I don't always succeed, but success isn't the ultimate yardstick; in faith, the heart and the spirit of trying to turn away from them is.

 Quote:
Why are you good, and I'm bad?[/b]
You've apparently missed the point of many of my posts. I'm not good; we're both equally bad, even though we both have equal potential for good.

 Quote:
Not fair. [/b]
It would not be fair if there were no way out of the foxhole we're sharing. I believe there is.

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#764653 - 10/05/04 09:58 PM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
LadyElton Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 521
Loc: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Legal marriage and religious marriage are not the same thing. From a legal standpoint, it's a binding contract between two people with the legal benefits, advantages, etc. Religious marriage is performed at a house of worship, according to that faith's guidelines. You don't really need (or at least shouldn't) a legal marriage to have a religious one. I could get legally married then later, my wife and I would have a religious ceremony at a church, temple, synagouge or in a coven. If some refuse to perform the ceremony due to religious reasons, we'd just find someplace that would do it.

My best friend and her husband got married sooner than expected - things had to be done as soon as possible for the legal end of it. She has Multiple Sclerosis - having been diagnosed last year - and is unable to work. She is on her husband's insurance through his work and relies on medical assistance for the rest. They didn't have a big reception, only immediate family and a few friends. They do love each other, but they had the legal ceremony/union so they could get benefits for her. Down the road, they'll probably have a larger religious ceremony, once her MS goes into 'remission.' Her husband is a godsend to her - he helps her with her meds, is very patient, caring.
_________________________
Hilary aka LadyElton

********************

Check out my blog

"Looking like a true survivor..."
-- Sir EJ/BT '83

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#764654 - 10/06/04 04:53 AM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Lindy Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 233
Loc: Western NY
LadyElton,
Where did your avatar go?

Your words don't sound the same if I can't see your picture.

EDIT
I've figured out what happened -- my Firefox browser for some reason doesn't show your new avatar (the colorful cat). It DID show your old avatar. Maybe it has something to do with the "adblock" extension I've got turned on in Firefox. I found this out by viewing this thread in Internet Explorer, in which your avatar shows just fine.

ps FWIW, I liked your old avatar ;\)

Sorry for the OT post -- back to the thread now.
_________________________
Kawai RX-6, Satin Ebony
--------------------
Ringo - "I am the best drummer in the world."
Lennon - "He's not even the best drummer in the band."

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#764655 - 10/06/04 04:57 AM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Jeffrey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/18/04
Posts: 2948
Loc: New York
Dwain - "the Christian faith advocates a "lack of sexual expression" not only for homosexuals, but for any believer outside of marriage."

I don't see how this isn't an evasion. Christianity advocates no-sex outside marriage. But then it says that gays can't marry!! Only gays are permanently excluded from sexual expression without sin. Consistency can be had either by saying that no one can have sex ever, or by saying that gays can also have sex inside a marriage, and allow gay marriage. (I personally wouldn't agree with either position, but I would admit the view was clear and consistent and not specificaly anti-gay.) I don't see how this isn't a clear example of bias against gays. No way around it.

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#764656 - 10/06/04 07:12 AM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
Dwain Lee Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 2419
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
You're correct; if, as in the traditional Christian interpretation, gay sex is sin, then yes, you could say this is a "bias" against gays WHO WOULD BE CHRISTIAN - in the same sense that one would say that Christianity is "biased" against any other sinful acts of mankind.

A gay person has three basic options relative to Christianity (the only reference point I'm discussing here): accept the traditional Christian viewpoint, as put forth by Larry, TomK, myself, and others; accept a minority interpretation of the Christian faith that believes that homosexual acts are not sinful, and follow a life of faith in accordance with that interpretation; or reject Christianity.

There are certain core issues - what we Presby's would call "essential tenets;" C.S. Lewis called it "Mere Christianity;" others would call them the "Fundamentals" - to the Christian faith. Believe it or not, I don't consider whether homosexuality is, or is not, sin to be one of these core considerations.

Further, if we are not talking about a gay person who is trying to reconcile their life with Christian faith, then we are talking strictly about a legal issue. I do not hold anyone hostage to a value system to which they have not declared any allegiance.

That is partly why, as Kenny said, it seems like we're talking English and German at each other.

I don't think anyone is trying to convert Kenny to Christianity; rather, I see several people simply explaining what their particular Christian viewpoint is on the matter.

To me, God is, in fact, biased. In addition to being a loving and providing God, He is also absolutely intolerant - of people's worship of God's largest rival for our worship. This rival is mankind itself.

All sin can be boiled down to placing a higher consideration for the wishes and desires for the self, over the wishes - as one has come to understand them - of God. Anything that we do in our lives that is contrary to what we understand to be God's intentions, is sin, without gradations. Making ourselves the center of creation deflects our ultimate concern away from the true center of Him.

That's why any Christian's viewpoint on this issue can only be "judgmental" when addressing a fellow Christian, and "informatonal" to a non-Christian.

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#764657 - 10/06/04 08:26 AM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
There is still a lot of German in these posts.
Even thought I told you I don't read German.

Using information from your religion to explain attitudes or behavior outside the religion is what terrorists do.
Sure, this is the extreme example, but it is the same thing.
This happens when beliefs morph into facts.

They start behaving like what they brought from the church applies to everyone outside their church.
Creepy.

Iím learning that conversations with them is a waste of time.

And they donít take responsibility for their positions.
They donít say I think this, or I believe this.
They say *God* says this.
The *bible* says this.

Then they seamlessly launch into their religious doctrine, as if it can support their perspective to a non-believer.
Strange they donít get it.
Many of these are smart people.

I think I'm learning some important lessons here.
I can see why so many people just won't even bother talking about some subjects.

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#764658 - 10/06/04 08:38 AM Re: The Universal Thread - All Topics Welcome
justme Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: Englewood, FL
 Quote:
Originally posted by kenny:

I think I'm learning some important lessons here.
I can see why so many people just won't even bother talking about some subjects. [/b]
Go on....... What lessons?

Just curious,
_________________________
justme

http://toosad4words.blogspot.com/

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