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#773628 - 07/07/02 05:22 PM Re: What July 4 Is All About
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
With regard to Iraq, anything short of a complete stand down by the Bush Administration will be characterized by the left as an attempt to influence the elections. I hope they proceed with vigor against Iraq for reasons other than elections. [/b]
Oh? And you know this how? You have heard the leaders of the left (as if it is some monolithic movement) saying this when?

If I recall correctly, the Democratic leaders in the Congress, who I assume you would consider part of the leadership of the left, have publicly encouraged Il Duce to preemtively attack Iraq. Have you heard them now call for the US to stand down against Hussein in the next four months?

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#773629 - 07/07/02 05:31 PM Re: What July 4 Is All About
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
The politicians in Washington (Republican and Democrat) are going to say just what the polls tell them people want to hear. Any action against Iraq before the elections will be characterized by those on the left exactly as you have done so already. Your own words speak for themselves.

 Quote:
I think we'll have asome clue how political Il Duce and his cohorts want to make this war by how his actions vis-a-vis Iraq parallel the November elections. My fear is that all will be ratched up to have an impact on the elections. At the least we will hear ever increasing saber rattling. But I fear we will find the building up of troops underway then, or even worse an attack being imminent or underway by late October/early November. [/b]
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#773630 - 07/07/02 10:24 PM Re: What July 4 Is All About
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by JBryan:
Any action against Iraq before the elections will be characterized by those on the left exactly as you have done so already. Your own words speak for themselves.[/b]
And I stand by those words because I believe them to be true. If Il Duce decides to use Iraq as a way of helping the GOP gain control of the Congress, state houses and state legislatures, it does not matter if I am on the right, on the left or wacko (don't even go there JBryan! \:D ) -- he will have done it for political reasons.

I simply assume all politicians do everything for political reasons -- it is all measured by their staffs and by them by what they can gain or lose politically. Il Duce is no different than Clinton, Godfather Bush, Reagan or any of the others.

If a movement is made before November 5, yes, I will see it as politically motivated, as I have done with every President who has made major military moves within the couple of months before an election or when they're having political problems.

There is no reason Il Duce can't wait until November 6 to make any sort of move or announce any sort of move -- unless we are attacked directly by IRAQ itself, which changes everything because it is no longer a preemtive strike.

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#773631 - 07/07/02 11:27 PM Re: What July 4 Is All About
JohnC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 1672
Loc: Lower Left Coast
 Quote:
George says:

I simply assume all politicians do everything for political reasons -- it is all measured by their staffs and by them by what they can gain or lose politically. Il Duce is no different than Clinton, Godfather Bush, Reagan or any of the others.

If a movement is made before November 5, yes, I will see it as politically motivated, as I have done with every President who has made major military moves within the couple of months before an election or when they're having political problems.

There is no reason Il Duce can't wait until November 6 to make any sort of move or announce any sort of move -- unless we are attacked directly by IRAQ itself, which changes everything because it is no longer a preemtive strike. [/b]
Yes, all politicians are aware of the political impact of everything they do.

The difference here George, is that it will be a justified military action. Unlike the infamous Sudanese asprin factory bombing ordered during the time BC was purjuring himself during his impeachment. (BTW, that is also why there *is* a difference between BC and the others)

And while we all have a right to be suspicious of the timing, there is always that possibility that the timing is based on expectations for the most successful military outcome.

Not everyone has the same ethical standards of BC. Thank God. ;\)
_________________________
There are few joys in life greater than the absence of pain.

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#773632 - 07/08/02 12:34 AM Re: What July 4 Is All About
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by JohnC:
[QUOTE]

Not everyone has the same ethical standards of BC. Thank God. ;\) [/b]
I think most politcians sold their souls long ago to get where they are at. And they all will lie, looking directly into the camera, if it suits their political needs. They will do what they have to do to get power and to hold on to it.

No, I do not believe Il Duce or any of the others have/had higher ethical standards than Clinton. They are all whores who will sell themselves to the highest bidder and/or to get the highest poll numbers. And the desire for the poll numbers is simply so they have more to sell. It is only the standards of the American people who, when kept informed by a free press, that keeps them from going too far off base.

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#773633 - 07/08/02 01:28 AM Re: What July 4 Is All About
JohnC Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 1672
Loc: Lower Left Coast
Do all politicians sell out at one time or another? Yes, they do. Does that make them all equal? Well no, not in my eyes. They may share common traits but that does not make them complete equals. Although I will admit I don't much care for any politician. And, believe it or not I have never been a big Bush fan.

I think your back to the old "everybody does it" explanation. It explains why nothing BC did should be viewed poorly and why anything Bush does is to be suspect. Neat trick George. Having it both ways. ;\)
_________________________
There are few joys in life greater than the absence of pain.

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#773634 - 07/08/02 07:46 AM Re: What July 4 Is All About
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
 Quote:
Originally posted by George061875:
It is only the standards of the American people who, when kept informed by a free press, that keeps them from going too far off base.[/b]
In my wishful thinking mode, I might have said "informed by a free, unbiased[/b] press."
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#773635 - 07/08/02 08:27 AM Re: What July 4 Is All About
Anonymous
Unregistered


 Quote:
Originally posted by JohnC:

I think your back to the old "everybody does it" explanation. It explains why nothing BC did should be viewed poorly and why anything Bush does is to be suspect. Neat trick George. Having it both ways. ;\) [/b]
When have you ever heard me say that nothing Clinton did should be viewed poorly and anything Il Duce does is suspect? To me, there are no "both ways" to have it. Both sold their souls. Both are whores. Both need/needed to be watched with high vigilance. Indeed, I know of no President in my lifetime that did not fit that description and did not need to be watched.

I guess I just do not see things in a strictly partisan manner -- Democrat versus Republican -- JohnC. Apparently you do. Or at least you see an attack on one as defending the other.

And yes, they ALL do it -- they all whore for whatever group(s) financed them and got them into office. A President getting sexually serviced in the White House is the least of our problems with them. Selling out the nation to pay off their political owners is a much greater concern to me.

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