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#774005 - 03/06/05 04:13 AM America's Death Squads
yhabpo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 489
America's Death Squads
They're murdering innocents in Iraq
by Justin Raimondo
Six months in jail - for a wanton murder. That's fair, now isn't it? It is if the victim is Iraqi, and the murderers are four American soldiers - that's what a military court recently decided, and it's a verdict that tells us everything we need to know about the "liberation" of Iraq.

Jan. 3, 2004 - Two young Iraqis, Zaydun al-Samarrai and Marwan Hassoun, were transporting bathroom fixtures in their truck when it broke down and their trip back home was delayed. As they stood by the side of the road at 10:45 p.m., 15 minutes before the American-imposed curfew in Samarra, an American patrol chanced upon them - and that's when the trouble started.

They had already been stopped and searched at a checkpoint manned by Iraqi police, but the Americans made them get out of the truck, searched the cargo, and looked at their identity papers. Marwan remembers that one soldier merrily chirped at them in Arabic, as friendly as could be, and said they were free to go. But when they got back in their truck, the Americans had a sudden change of heart: the two of them were ordered out, handcuffed, and pushed into one of four Bradley fighting vehicles that made up the patrol.

Nineteen-year-old Zaydun was terrified, and whispered to Marwan: "What's happening?"


Zaydun Al-Samarrai, murdered by US soldiers in Iraq.


He would soon find out.

The Bradley stopped at a bridge that spans the Tigris, a bridge that also regulates the flow of river water and is known as the Tharthar dam. Zaydun and Marwan were shoved out onto the walkway. The water roared below as the soldiers uncuffed them and ordered them to jump.

"Why? Why?"

Marwan's plaintive cry fell on the deadened ears of his captors, who grinned and laughed. Even as he cried out against the unreason of a world gone mad, in which the "liberated" are tortured by their "liberators," his anguish was drowned out by their glee as they forced him into the river at gunpoint.

But not before he saw them push Zaydun - who couldn't swim - over the edge as he clung to his tormentors, begging. But the Americans weren't having any of it:

"Shut up! Shut the f*ck up!"

Marwan tried to save his young cousin, but Zaydun slipped away from his grip in the strong current. Marwan recounts:

"He was shouting 'Marwan, save me,' and I yelled back 'Try to swim, try to swim,' but he went under again and that was it. I could hear them [the soldiers] laughing. They were behaving like they were watching a comedy on stage."

A generation weaned on American television, thug "music," and video games that glamorize sadism goes to war: we shouldn't be surprised or even shocked that they see it as a form of entertainment.

Marwan grasped at clumps of weeds and managed to get to shore, while Zaydun was swept downriver: his body was recovered a few days later.


US Army Sgt.1st Class Tracy E. Perkins, one of Al-Samarrai's murderers, just given six months by a military court and a reduction in pay.

This murder would have gone undetected and unknown to all but the victims' immediate family, but for a blogger named Zeyad, an Iraqi who had attracted much attention and respect in the "blogosphere," especially among the pro-war types, who constantly cited Zeyad's support for the occupation and his consistently "pro-American" outlook. Zaydun, you see, was Zeyad's cousin.

This remarkable post on Zeyad's "Healing Iraq" Web site, including an open letter from the family addressed to Bush and a passel of world leaders, caused a storm of controversy in the "blogosphere." A crunching, cracking noise, like the sound made by those Bradley fighting vehicles as they crushed the cousins' truck beneath heavy treads, was nearly audible as neocon ideology ran smack into the ugly reality of the occupation. These bitter words of Zeyad's stung our laptop bombardiers where it hurts:

"This was done in the name of your country by soldiers of your national army. This was not an accident or a mistake, this was deliberate action. I do not know the exact details of the event or what Zaydun and his cousin were accused of, that is all irrelevant because even a criminal would not deserve such treatment. This is not just about Zaydun, this is about Iraq, the same could happen to anyone, even to me. But I will keep my opinion out of it for the moment as no words can describe my frustration. ...

"The family met an American official to ask him for an investigation, he yelled at them and started to lecture them about the discipline of American GI's, in the end he promised them nothing. Zaydun's body is yet to be found and the family is broken. Zaydun is a relative of mine so I volunteered to translate the letter and expose this thuggish behaviour to an audience as wide as possible, it shouldn't go unreported. The letter has already been sent to various Iraqi papers and to offices of Arab media in Baghdad. I will stay on top of this in the next few days so I would like to ask my readers to help me and write to their Senators, to the western media, and to anyone that can do something about it. I also need people to translate it to other languages. That is of course if you care about Iraq and Iraqis."

With a swiftness that is a tribute to the liberating power of technology, the American military authorities reversed their previous indifference to the family's protest and announced that an investigation was underway. Glenn Reynolds of Instapundit declared that this proved how noble the Americans are and vowed to follow up on the story. If you go look at the readers' comments appended to Zeyad's post, however, you can see the real spirit of the neocon "bloggers" and their brainless war-bots expressed in the anger, zealous denial, and flat-out hatred directed at Zeyad for dissing his "liberators." It is positively vomit-inducing.

But no less so than the farcical investigation and military trial. Zeyad wrote in his blog months after the incident:

"At last, the four soldiers that forced my late cousin into the Tigris at Samarra have been 'REPRIMANDED'. They still insist that no one had died even though Zaydun's DEAD body had been retrieved from the river. Also makes me wonder, if no one died, why did they offer a handsome sum of money to the family in return for their silence? And why did the mentioned Commander (the one who was also 'reprimanded') impede the investigation and LIE to the Army investigators? The stench of cover up is overwhelming. This won't go unpunished."

Won't it?

It took six months, but eventually Sgt. 1st Class Tracy E. Perkins, 33; 1st Lt. Jack M. Saville, 24; and Sgt. Reggie Martinez, 24, were charged with involuntary manslaughter in the death of Zaydun. Spc. Terry Bowman, 21, was charged with simple assault for pushing Marwan into the river. Lt. Col. Nathan Sassaman, Maj. Robert Gwinner, and Capt. Matthew Cunningham - the commanding officers responsible - were dealt with under Article 15 of the military legal code, which permits secret disciplinary proceedings. Sassaman later admitted ordering his soldiers to lie about the incident.

Charges against Bowman and Martinez were dropped in mid-September, and now we see that Perkins is getting a slap on the wrist - six months and a one-grade reduction in rank to staff sergeant. Saville, suspected of giving the order that led to Zaydun's death, is scheduled to go on trial shortly.

What's interesting is the very successful defense mounted by the lawyers for the accused, who deny a death ever took place. As the Rocky Mountain News reported when the charges were dropped against Bowman and Martinez:

"Army investigators testified that they never saw [the victim] Hassoun's body and had no evidence confirming that a body existed, except for the account of Hassoun's cousin and a videotape of a body during funeral preparations by Hassoun's family.

"Other members of the platoon testified they saw two men standing on the riverbank and believed both men were safely out of the water. The soldiers' testimony coupled with the lack of a body prompted the hearing officer, Capt. Robert Ayers, to recommend that manslaughter charges be dropped...."

Perkins' lawyer continued in this vein: the family, he averred, was quite possibly lying. Zaydun could be running around somewhere, waiting to collect his share of the compensation money. Testimony was heard attesting to the "fact" that the Iraqis often reported false deaths to "get the troops in trouble."

Denial is the preferred tactic of the War Party and this administration. As the rationale for this war crumbled, they denied ever knowing the truth about those fabled "weapons of mass destruction." As the reality that we're losing this war begins to sink in, even among those who previously predicted that the Iraqis would hail us in the streets, this administration and the hardline hawks deny everything. We aren't looking at "the good news from Iraq," they aver, and the Wall Street Journal even employs someone to maintain this hallucination full-time. So why shouldn't lawyers defending American war criminals uphold a similar denialist stance? And the parallels between what happened in that courtroom and what is happening in the court of public opinion do not end there.

The defense made the same argument that our neocon advocates of torture and defenders of death squads have been making here on the home front:


"Defense attorney Capt. Josh Norris said the hostilities in Iraq require soldiers to find effective nonlethal ways to deter crime and establish respect. 'Did these guys cross over the line? Did they know the left and right limits? This war is in this gray area most of the time,' Norris said. 'Was it [the river incident] a good idea? Maybe not ... but was it a crime, considering all the circumstances?'"

We have to show them who's boss. We have to put them in their place. We have to "win" the war against the insurgency - even if we have to torture half the adult Iraqi males in the Sunni Triangle (using "non-lethal" means at all times, of course). Is torture great bodily harm leading directly to organ failure - or is it making a 19-year-old kid who can't swim jump into a raging torrent?

Let's argue about it. How many torturers can dance atop a Bradley? Let the debate begin. Any further proof of America's moral degeneracy is superfluous.

What gets me about this case is that Zaydun's is a solidly middle-class pro-American family. Zeyad, a doctor, is not merely intelligent: he is that rare breed, the thoroughly pro-American Iraqi, whose zeal for the alleged liberation of his people led him to take photos of what were billed as anti-terrorist demonstrations that were later reproduced by the U.S. occupation authority and handed out by American soldiers.

The murder of Zaydun, and the subsequent cover-up, is, for this reason, the ultimate betrayal. The whole sorry "investigation" and legal farce that ensued is a metaphor for the invasion and subsequent occupation. Launched as a noble crusade to export "freedom" and "democracy," the "liberation" of Iraq is a fraud - a hideous war crime clothed in the pristine robes of an exalted "idealism."

The occupation of Iraq must end: it is time to look for the exits. The alternative is to continue this monstrous betrayal of everything America stands for, and spread the seeds of a moral corruption that will one day come back to haunt us. As Alberto Gonzales - the rationalizer and enabler of systematized torture as a "tactic" in the "war on terrorism" - assumes the office of attorney general in this war-maddened administration, the U.S. is considering running "death squads" in Iraq similar to those deployed in Central America during the 1980s. The whitewash of Zaydun's murder is emblematic of our descent into barbarism. That is one of the lessons of this case.

Justice, freedom, democracy - all the highfalutin' notions that animate spindle-shouldered policy wonks as they explicate the administration line (either because they're on the payroll, or gratis) - are just so much noise spilling into the ether. And that - for Zeyad and all those Iraqis (and others) who take U.S. government propaganda at face value - is the bitterest lesson of them all.

"They aren't for peace," wrote a prominent "scholar" at the Cato Institute recently, "they're for the other side." This neocon hysteric was referring to Antiwar.com, among others, but Zaydun's martyrdom and the ongoing cover-up ought to make it clear to any decent person which "side" to be on in Iraq - and that is Zaydun's side, his family's side, and, yes, Zeyad's side, the militantly secular and pro-American blogger who brought America's shame to light.

As America's death squads are unleashed on Iraq, I know which side I'm on. Do you?

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#774006 - 03/06/05 05:48 AM Re: America's Death Squads
JoeB Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 671
Loc: Northern California
You really should attribute your quotes. This one is from a blog at http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j011602.html .
_________________________
"How, Monsieur, you care not for music? You do not play the clavecin? I am sorry for you! You are indeed condemming yourself to a dull old age!" - Fouquet

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#774007 - 03/06/05 05:53 AM Re: America's Death Squads
Kentcouncil Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/18/04
Posts: 371
Loc: Great Lakes
yhapbo would rather have us believe that this is from a reputable news source. Kinda slimy.

Reads like fiction.

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#774008 - 03/06/05 06:09 AM Re: America's Death Squads
EHpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1703
Loc: NY-Madrid-Newfoundland (rhymes...
yhapbo, you should expand you reading a bit to include sources from all over the world.

I tend to not believe things reported in only one place with no other separate reports.

If you find various reports on the same issue then it is likely to have happened. and I don't mean the one report being copied and pasted in other people's sites, I mean more than one source.

Your posts are the equivalent of Jolly's or Larry's conservative hate propaganda. Worse, actually, because there is not the remotest semblance of reason to yours.

You should put your anti-American sentiment to better use by pointing out truths. I think there's probably enough things happening in Iraq that we don't need to resort to lies to make people angry. It just helps the other side.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com
_________________________
Schnabel's advie to Horowitz: "When a piece gets difficult, make faces."

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#774009 - 03/06/05 06:53 AM Re: America's Death Squads
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Your posts are the equivalent of Jolly's or Larry's conservative hate propaganda. [/b]

Excuse me, but neither me nor Jolly have ever posted any conservative "hate propaganda".
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#774010 - 03/06/05 07:14 AM Re: America's Death Squads
EHpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1703
Loc: NY-Madrid-Newfoundland (rhymes...
I think a lot of the posts you and Jolly post are meant to stir up hatred for the oposing party. Among them, your most recent one which was falsified to begin with.

So I don't think I'm too far off.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com
_________________________
Schnabel's advie to Horowitz: "When a piece gets difficult, make faces."

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#774011 - 03/06/05 07:18 AM Re: America's Death Squads
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
How did Jolly get caught up in that. The things I see him post come from fairly reliable sources. This one instance was an exception for Larry as well. He may have been the victim of someone elses forgery. Don't you think you are over-reacting a bit in associating them with the crap posted above?
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#774012 - 03/06/05 07:18 AM Re: America's Death Squads
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Not hatred for the opposing party, just telling you the truth, and exposing the opposing party for the out of touch, dangerous bunch that it is. Mostly though, we expose the anti war and left wing liberal ideology for the flawed philosophy that it is. Sorry if it hurts you to have a ray of truth shine in once in awhile.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#774013 - 03/06/05 07:38 AM Re: America's Death Squads
EHpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1703
Loc: NY-Madrid-Newfoundland (rhymes...
Notice I said this stuff was WORSE than what the Conservatives here post, not the same. Liberals tend to view the articles that Larry, Jolly, Gruphon et al post as propaganda (as it comes from Right-wing Republican journals most of the time) which cannot be taken seriously becuase the sources are most of the time simple personal opinions of the writers.

My point was that this guy's tactics are doing nothing to change people's minds or make them think about the other points of views, which I find also occurs with most (not all) conservative postings.

Although it may simply be the nature of the news today. It all tends to be opinion-based views which slant one way or another with very little reporting of just the facts.

Larry, although I'm sure your paternalistic tone is meant to infuriate I can only laugh at it. And stating publicly that you are pointing out truths will never replace actually doing so.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com
_________________________
Schnabel's advie to Horowitz: "When a piece gets difficult, make faces."

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#774014 - 03/06/05 07:44 AM Re: America's Death Squads
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
the sources are most of the time simple personal opinions of the writers[/b]

Oh - and the leftists don't do that, huh?

Larry, although I'm sure your paternalistic tone is meant to infuriate I can only laugh at it. And stating publicly that you are pointing out truths will never replace actually doing so.[/b]

I think if one took the time to go back to the beginning of this war and examined the "truths" posted by our liberal members, you'd find that the "truths" that not only me but also our other conservative members have talked about have stood the test of time, and most of the "truths" we've been given by the leftist side of things have proven to fail it.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#774015 - 03/06/05 07:52 AM Re: America's Death Squads
EHpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1703
Loc: NY-Madrid-Newfoundland (rhymes...
Honestly, I think it is too soon to judge for either camp.

At the moment it would seem the conservatives have managed to turn a bad situation into a possibility of a good one, I commend them for that. But the true results of our actions will not be felt in their entirety for many years, so I do not want to be hasty in calling the game yet.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com
_________________________
Schnabel's advie to Horowitz: "When a piece gets difficult, make faces."

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#774016 - 03/06/05 08:02 AM Re: America's Death Squads
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
I'll grant you that one, that it will be a long time before we see the full picture. But right now no one from either side is bothering to talk about the *good* things that are going on. In his hatred for America, Yahoo tries to smear US soldiers as rapists, you correctly point out that it is the Iraqis doing the raping, but we're still talking about the raping as if it's the only truth. The larger truth is that women in Iraq are allowed to vote, hold jobs, teach, go to school, *have* schools, have hospitals, and on and on. I do not agree with rape obviously, and just like any sensible caring person it is painful to hear about innocent women being brutalized by men. But at the same time, the bigger picture is that women in Iraq have hope they never dreamed of having before, and lots of good things are happening. We're just not being told about it, all the news being focused on the bad stuff.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#774017 - 03/06/05 09:05 AM Re: America's Death Squads
EHpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1703
Loc: NY-Madrid-Newfoundland (rhymes...
Too much of one thing not enough of the other, our media only wants to report what will sell.

Through my military connections I am frequently sent emails and internal publications about the work that is being done in Iraq. Although it reads like a bunch of pro-american propaganda (it couldn't really be anything else, circulating within the military as it is) I do know that good things are getting done. I just don't know wht the proportion of bad to good is. It depends on the region. Overall I can't say if things are better or worse because there are too many variables to look at, from whose perspective will you judge? I know have read interviews with Iraqi women saying that what is the point of freedom if they can't go out on the street without fear of being raped. They can't go anywhere alone. This is why I would rather wait to call judgement on the outcome.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com
_________________________
Schnabel's advie to Horowitz: "When a piece gets difficult, make faces."

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#774018 - 03/06/05 10:24 AM Re: America's Death Squads
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
There are parts of the UK where you can't go out on the streets safely. There are parts of the US where you can't go out on the streets safely. What's your point? We're all failed societies?
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
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#774019 - 03/06/05 10:30 AM Re: America's Death Squads
EHpianist Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1703
Loc: NY-Madrid-Newfoundland (rhymes...
Not to this extent Gryphon, it doesn't even compare.

My point is that whether the country is functioning or not depends on which angle of the camera one is looking through.

Neither side can claim victory nor defeat, to many things are still left to do.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com
_________________________
Schnabel's advie to Horowitz: "When a piece gets difficult, make faces."

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#774020 - 03/06/05 02:04 PM Re: America's Death Squads
yhabpo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 489
 Quote:
Originally posted by EHpianist:

You should put your anti-American sentiment to better use by pointing out truths. I think there's probably enough things happening in Iraq that we don't need to resort to lies to make people angry. It just helps the other side.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com [/b]
I highly doubt this is entirely fictitious. Sometimes, a 'reputable' sources are too restrained in their reports.


 Quote:
But at the same time, the bigger picture is that women in Iraq have hope they never dreamed of having before, and lots of good things are happening. We're just not being told about it, all the news being focused on the bad stuff.
A dream of working in a unregulated work environment as a slave factory worker? A dream of voting for a ballot that only contains puppet governments? A dream of teaching in an environment where is no freedom of information?

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#774021 - 03/06/05 02:16 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Renauda Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/02
Posts: 5066
Until now I didn't realize that North Korea occupied Iraq. No wonder GWB is upset at Pyongyang.
_________________________
"The older the fiddle, the sweeter the music"~ Augustus McCrae

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#774022 - 03/06/05 02:45 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14051
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Your posts are the equivalent of Jolly's or Larry's conservative hate propaganda. Worse, actually, because there is not the remotest semblance of reason to yours.
Pittsburgh Gazette, Sacramento Bee, National Review, The Weekly Standard, The Wall Street Journal,de Spiegel, Rolling Stone, American Spectator.

Those have been some of the sources I've used here lately.

Much of the hay the members on the opposite side of the political spectrum have made with Larry, is notable only in the fact that he makes such mistakes so rarely.

I really, really think you need to redefine your idea of hate speech, if you are going to lump conservatives in with a guy who spews as fact that American soldiers are raping Iraqi women, targeting their young men for murder, and bayonetting Iraqi children.
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www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#774023 - 03/06/05 03:25 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Mr. E Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 426
 Quote:
Originally posted by EHpianist:

...Your posts are the equivalent of Jolly's or Larry's conservative hate propaganda... [/b]
Weren't you the one accusing Larry of "low blows" recently? :rolleyes: Calling their posts "hate propaganda" seems pretty low to me.

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#774024 - 03/06/05 03:27 PM Re: America's Death Squads
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
Well, it turns out that this did make mainstream US news. Isn't it funny how it escaped all of our radar screens - mine included. No big deal - just shoved a guy off a bridge. Boys will be boys, right? \:\(

MSN News Account

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#774025 - 03/06/05 03:38 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Mercutio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 327
Loc: Hart Island, NYC
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:
Well, it turns out that this did make mainstream US news. Isn't it funny how it escaped all of our radar screens - mine included. No big deal - just shoved a guy off a bridge. Boys will be boys, right? \:\(

MSN News Account [/b]
_________________________
I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio

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#774026 - 03/06/05 03:39 PM Re: America's Death Squads
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
Yes, cold blooded murder has become rather boring these days, hasn't it? (Is it just me, or does it seem Tomk is alive and well?)

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#774027 - 03/06/05 03:48 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Mercutio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 327
Loc: Hart Island, NYC
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:
Yes, cold blooded murder has become rather boring these days, hasn't it? (Is it just me, or does it seem Tomk is alive and well?) [/b]
You do seem to have with obsessive fixation on TomK don't you? What are your psychologist's thoughts on the subject?

Has he taken you off your medication yet?

Tell the truth.

\:D
_________________________
I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio

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#774028 - 03/06/05 03:54 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Mr. E Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 426
Murder is murder, it is never good. There are something like 45 murders per day in the U.S., but you aren't complaining and posting links about each of these. The fact is, there will be a few bad people who do bad things in EVERY group.

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#774029 - 03/06/05 03:57 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Mercutio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 327
Loc: Hart Island, NYC
Hardly "death squads."
_________________________
I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio

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#774030 - 03/06/05 04:03 PM Re: America's Death Squads
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mercutio:
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:
Yes, cold blooded murder has become rather boring these days, hasn't it? (Is it just me, or does it seem Tomk is alive and well?) [/b]
You do seem to have an obsessive fixation on TomK don't you? What are your psychologist's thoughts on the subject?

Has he taken you off your medication yet?

\:D [/b]
And you seem to be terribly familiar with personalities around here for one who just started posting this month; particularly mine, since I also just started posting again this month after several months hiatus. Nice of you to stick up for Tomk, though.

PS Psychologists don't prescribe meds.

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#774031 - 03/06/05 04:08 PM Re: America's Death Squads
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. E:
Murder is murder, it is never good. There are something like 45 murders per day in the U.S., but you aren't complaining and posting links about each of these. The fact is, there will be a few bad people who do bad things in EVERY group. [/b]
True enough. But,when it happens here, crimes don't go unprosecuted. If ever there was a setting or place when one could "get away with murder," a war on foreign turf is it. We've seen enough atrocities so far to confirm that horrible things have been done, and that they haven't been isolated instances. My fear, however, is that we have only seen the tip of the ice berg insofar as abuses by our troops. This type of lawlessness is not going to help win the hearts and the minds of the people we are there to liberate.

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#774032 - 03/06/05 04:11 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Mercutio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 327
Loc: Hart Island, NYC
Been here for a year.

 Quote:
PS Psychologists don't prescribe meds.[/b]
I know. Never been to one, though, how about you? \:D

I conjure thee by kathy's bright eyes,
By her high forehead and by her scarlet lip,
By her fine foot, straight leg, and quivering thigh,
And the demesnes that there adjacent lie,
That in thy likeness thou appear to us!
_________________________
I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio

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#774033 - 03/06/05 04:18 PM Re: America's Death Squads
Mercutio Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 327
Loc: Hart Island, NYC
In the words of the great Democratic mayor of Washington DC, Marion Barry:

"If you take out the killings, Washington actually has a very very low crime rate."

\:D
_________________________
I'm not a puppet, I'm a real boy--Pinocchio

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#774034 - 03/06/05 07:25 PM Re: America's Death Squads
reblder Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/21/01
Posts: 1237
Loc: Sherman Oaks, Calif.
Posted by EHPianist:
 Quote:
Larry, although I'm sure your paternalistic tone is meant to infuriate I can only laugh at it.[/b]
Which has been my same reaction time and again with him.

Hopefully he can even laugh at himself! \:D \:D

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