Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room Sincere questions on God

PLEASE keep in mind that:
1) I'm (relatively) young.
2) I'm not taught religiously AT ALL. Meaning, when it comes to that matter, I AM IGNORANT.
3) I don't want to start a war.

Assuming God exists by that name,

1) Why did he let that terrible earth-quake happen on Christmas day?

2) Assuming that an honest, kind and pure person that happens to be a complete atheist dies, he/she should go to Heaven, right? Wrong. God only lets in His followers. Isn't that Degrading to Him by bringing Him down to the low level of human thinking? Being [Himself], he should not care who one believes in. Denying the right to heaven to a non-believer would be personal vengeance, the same thing we frown upon.

Zorro

To my way of thinking (there are plenty of others, and others are plenty entitled to them), religions and belief systems are created by humans for humans. They may be guided by principles that are placed in the human mind or in the world, but their working out both in systems of belief and in institutions is a human creation.

Sometimes these systems and institutions help us get closer to God, or so we would like to believe. And sometimes they don't, which is why even the most fundamentalist of belief systems is always changing. (That's simply a fact of history, not a statement of what should or should not be the case.)

The most interesting part of the phrase "believe in God" is the middle word. What does "in" mean? Do you believe "in" your big toe? "in" mathematics? "in" DNA? "in" the validity of the latest issue of TV Guide?

The earthquake? God is often said to be "Omnipotent, Omniscient, and All-caring". It it clear to me (from everything from earthquakes to the murder of innocents) that S/He can, at any one time, be only two out of three.

You can take your pick as to which. That's what theology is made on.

I am young as well, and just finished up in a Catholic high school last year. (4 years with religion courses(!), although I do not confess to being anywhere near an expert on such matters, I just have a small amount of information)

Although I am still thinking heavily on this matter, my current conclusion is that there is a God, but one far, far, different than any notion that we may have of him. Right now I do not believe in much of what is in the bible.

It is kind of absurd for man to automatically think that god is "all good" and merciful. We have no evidence of this, and if one were to look at the reality of our world instead of the bible, we would see things more correctly.

Life had to start somewhere. The universe had to start somewhere. Both came from nothing, the universe or god included. Judging by how humans, through our own perspective, are advanced creatures, I have to believe that there may be some larger power to account for this, as I am not sure how the universe would come together so perfectly, but I see a chance that there is no god and everything is indeed by randomness. (Although I incline towards the former at the present.)

Having said this, I think that the human notion of god is made up by humans, and I would not be suprised if most religious are obviously wrong and only gained the influence they have because of power/political ambition in the past and not because of some outside power.

Dear Zorro,

1. God doesn't "let" anything happen here. It's our world.

2. It's not a matter of vengeance, it's a matter of character. It's a matter of who you are, not so much in relationship to "heaven" but a interrelationship to what all of creation really entails. To deny the spiritual (i.e. atheism,) is to deny who we really are. And if we can't recognize ourselves and we can't recognize God, how can we expect God to recognize us. Heaven is not a place. It is being in the presence of God.

So, there's a misconception here. Christians don't go to heaven when they die. They are in heaven as they walk this earth and they continue to be in heaven after they die. The physical state changes--the spiritual never does. That's what's meant by eternal.

Tom, could you elaborate a bit on what you think our spiritualism actually is? Some invisible force that contains everything we experience?

Dear CrashTest,

I was fudging, and you caught me at it. Spiritualism is just God and our relation to him and nothing else. If he does exist he would demand all our attention--after all he created us and all this other stuff. If he doesn't--the heck with it.

Seems to me there's no middle ground. Spiriualism is our relationship to God. No God, than all is crap.

I don't believe in my big toe but I do know God. If we would know more and believe less then this would be a much kinder, gentler world in which to live.

In case anyone ever wanted to see WRONG, this is exactly, exactly, what WRONG looks like.

Happy to oblige you. Whether right or wrong I don't really care. I take it you don't like Zen either.

Not to repeat myself here, but could you elaborate on how it is you know God? One could establish a relationship with an idea of God, but that is obviously a very one-sided relationship. (I believe so anyway, and although we all would like to have a god who responds and answers prayers, I am afraid I cannot fathom how something like that can be done. I doubt anyone else in a sane state of mind can claim such intervention without going into the idea of faith, which returns the argument to the beginning again.)

Tom~*K alias Elion~*K says I am WRONG so I won't write anything more on this. Sorry Crash. After all I wouldn't want to be branded a heretic. You might howvere read some good literature like Tolstoy, Dostoevskii and Hesse to point you in a direction that will help answer at least a part of your question.

Thanks, I have read some Tolstoy and will take a look at the works of the other two.

Excellent point. And the writers Renauda pointed to will point you to the place I was referring to all along: the Bible.

There is something there.

Yes upon rare occasions there are brief moments of lucidity in my thinking.

Wrong, because then you posted:

:rolleyes:

So I lied. After your bouquet I couldn't resist. Thank you I am now finished with this thread unless of course someone asks me to return. :p

Please.

Return.

Please.

Renauda, I am sincerely interested in what you have said, but could you please elaborate?(on the original post, that is)
I truly believe that there are NO atheists in the foxholes; so when I come upon an atheist, I reckon' they've never been in a foxhole. (?)

I ask you to return too.
And, also I will second John m's post by asking you to say what's on you mind.(you have my attention)

Since Renauda's not here momentarily, let me postulate his presence:

"Ah yes! the greats! The Russian greats...what do they mean, what do they mean?" "Could they say more with less words or less with more words--that we shall never know!"

"What truths do they tell? "Can they speak?" Well, no they are dead, how could they speak?" "Oh, well maybe they could speak through their works." "But, what is work" "Shall we interpet it by the Soviet model or the capitalist model..." Etc.