Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room Sincere questions on God

Since Renauda's not here momentarily, let me postulate his presence:

"Ah yes! the greats! The Russian greats...what do they mean, what do they mean?" "Could they say more with less words or less with more words--that we shall never know!"

"What truths do they tell? "Can they speak?" Well, no they are dead, how could they speak?" "Oh, well maybe they could speak through their works." "But, what is work" "Shall we interpet it by the Soviet model or the capitalist model..." Etc.

Double post...but it bears repeating!

quote:
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If we would know more and believe less then this would be a much kinder, gentler world in which to live.


Renauda, I understand what you said and agree completely. (I could explain it to Tomk (and will if you don't later) but I have a date.

He's a hose head. It's something more than understanding. Lot's of people understand economics and can't make a nickle. Lot's of people understand religion and can't say a prayer. Lot's of people understand love and walk around with huge holes in their hearts.

Understanding only gets you so far in this world. Understanding alone is the real meaning of doom.

jkeene paraphrasing Tom-*K

Science without wisdom gives all the Frankensteins of men less significance than one of God's mosquitoes.
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jkeene paraphrasing Tom-*K paraphrasing Renauda

Great Russians' essence is not their essence, our ignorance has not died yet.
---
jkeene not paraphrasing anyone

Knowing a three-sided coin is a belief understood.

Indeed sir, the matter which was being discussed is beyond mortal comprehension. Through faith I can know (as opposed to believe) God is but I cannot comprehend God. Nothing heretical about that- in fact I seem to recall it being very much in line with Orthodox and Catholic theology.

Also there was no need to refer to me a hose head. Such epithets directed towards others not only reflect very badly on your character and outward behavior but also can be regarded as veiled prejudice. Having said that, kindly permit Apple and others here to carry on what would have been a civil discussion.

I thought hose-head was a Canadian term of endearment. And how come kathy with a k isn't a pony?

Zorro, I have given your post a lot of thought before answering. I'm still not sure I'm ready. But I'm going to try. You have asked one of the most important questions you'll ever ask in your life, and it deserves an answer that has been well thought out, and with seriousness.

Everyone, me included, is going to naturally filter their response through their own religious belief system. Nothing wrong with that, except it can get a bit confusing to keep up with, and in such a setting as this it could create more confusion than answers. I want to try to answer you without seeming as though I'm "knocking" anyone else's beliefs in the process.

First of all, there most definitely *is* a God. God *does* love you, me and everyone else. God does *not* cause earthquakes, or any of the other bad things that happen in life. There is a reason God created us, regardless of the method you choose to accept that he used to do the creating. Before you can understand the complex issues you've asked about regarding whether God is reducing Himself to human's level, why He wants you to "believe" in Him only, you must understand what God's plan for mankind is.

The only way to do that is to study, and the best place to start your study is by reading the book of instructions he left us. Yes, we came with an owner's manual.... It's called the Bible.

Find a group of kids your age in your community who are studying the Bible and trying to learn God's plan for man, and how they fit into that. You will find that you are much much more than a mere human. You will find that God is much much more than some callous being up in the clouds causing earthquakes, car wrecks, or letting a little child walk out in front of a car. You will find that instead of God being unfair or cruel, He has a purpose for mankind far above the issues of mortality.

I am far from a perfect man. I don't live my life all the time according to my own beliefs. In other words, I'm a simple human. But I can tell you that I have no doubts that God is real, I have experienced His power, and as well as I am able, being the poor excuse for a Christian that I am sometimes, as humbly as I know how, I will be happy to talk with you offline any time you want, by phone, by email, whatever. I'll help you find information to answer your questions, whatever I can do.

Just keep seeking God. I'll tell you this: you can find him on your own, you don't need us. Just humbly ask Him to reveal himself to you. Talk to him, and ask him to come into your heart and reveal himself to you. If you truly seek to know God with a true and sincere desire to know him, and open your mind and heart to him, he will reveal himself. I don't mean he'll knock on the door and you'll find him standing there. But you'll know it when it happens. Just keep searching and don't give up.

Man.... I hope I did that right. I hope it all made some sense. And I hope you're able to see how very much I want to help you.

No, a hose head is an habitually drunken male with little or no education, a foul mouth, crude sense of humour and bad personal hygiene but is nevertheless employed. I think it may be the equivalent to what you might refer to as Trailer Trash.

I have no idea what the second part of your question means.

See what things you learn here? The McKenzie brothers never explained all that.

Larry, I don't think you need to have any worries on that score. Wonderful post, and I agree with you 100%.

-Mark

Having faith in god seems to be a prerequisite for living a happy life. Must it be so? In our current society, especially when riddled with uncertain circumstances (No atheists in a foxhole is perhaps a worthy analogy), the thought of a god does look admirably attractive.

If you look at it, believing in what a god does or could have done should not theoretically affect our lives. The way we act day to day is what is important, and then the message is purged from everything in religion and some follow it. It seems to me that one could be completely happy and fulfilled in life, without faith in a deity, if one is a good person and follows ideas similar to what Christianity and other religions preach without being being a Christian, or Jew, or Muslim, etc. I do concede that attaching a God to such matters makes the entire package more sellable and attractive, almost as if the church is an amiable door to door salesman.

I believe in a god, but that should not affect how I live my life or how others live theirs, because what we experience on earth is real, and if there is something that happens to us after we leave, than our time here will have different meaning, but if nothing happens, we will have had the opportunity to live regardless of all else. The idea of is very comforting, and the messages in the bible are of such great levels of inspiration that it makes things a little hard to swallow. Faith is a good defense mechanism for when we need to believe in something greater than ourselves, or when things go wrong- but it does not automatically mean that the object of this faith is anything more than a figment of man's imagination.

Maybe the idea of god, like the wheel or fire, is just another early invention of man in order to make life easier.

Having faith in god seems to be a prerequisite for living a happy life. Must it be so?


No, it is just the opposite. You will suffer the same problems as those who have no faith. You will get sick, you'll go broke, you'll lose loved ones, step off the curb and the car will hit you, all just like the person who has no faith. You may often face ridicule. And you'll see people who refuse God living just like you, and many living even better than you, happier than you. A person who refuses God may nevertheless live a fine, upstanding life. But living a moral, upstanding life isn't all there is to it. Your life on earth is just a journey, a mere speck of time in your eternity. Living a "happy life" is not the point as far as God is concerned.

Bob and Doug called one another "hoser". That's kind of an endearment to someone who just likes to drink a lot of beer and have a good time with friends. A party animal of sorts. Then there's a hose bag, that's a nasty term for...well, you get my drift I'm sure.

If a happy, upstanding life is not the point for God, why does it matter that we live on earth to begin with? Couldn't we just float around in the spirit world and fullfil God's plan if this is such a small part of our journey?

I don't know about you, but I sure do not remember whatever phase came before my life on earth in my journey, and nor do have I received any notice from God as to it's next place, but I do remember my life on earth. (I have pictures to prove it.)

Well said, Larry. Excellent post.

To Larry and TomK

I have a few questions for you:

1) Have you ever looked at the bible as just a book? A book of stories, rather than word of god? Someone had to put ink to paper at some point, and write all these ideas they had in order to make sense of their lives and their spirituality as best they could with the little scientific knowledge that they had at the time (ours is still very much lacking but a little farther ahead). Have you ever read your bible from a secular standpoint?

2)Why do you believe that the perspective of these few men who wrote down the ideas in the bible is Truth rather than just a vehemently believed point of view --just as any other rationalizing of our lives can be?

3) If a contemporary man or woman had "visions", heard the word of god telling them to esentially re-write parts of the bible, and they honestly believed it was god who asked them to do this, would you follow any new teachings handed down from this person? What, in your opinion, is the difference between their perspective and that of those who were chosen to be the authors of the original writings?

4)Why do you believe it is a requirement for a person to believe in god in order to be spiritual and act benevolently towards fellow man? Can't spirituality can be a sense of togetherness not only with your fellow man but with all that surrounds us, a feeling of true connectivity and purpose within existence? Is moral and ethical action in man exclusively driven by fear of god and fear of missing out on the final jackpot or by a desire to enable our coexistence with our fellow humans and with our environment (not limited to nature) to be as full as possible?

These are serious questions I would appreciate a thoughtful response, not a vindicative one.

Elena
http://www.concertpianist.com

I think the idea of God is just a useful mental tool to help yourself out of bad situations.

I believe that we are all connected mentally though.

well Renauda - I must apologize for reneging on my offer to explain to Tomk. I am not very comfortable commenting on personal beliefs. I will say Tomk; that Renauda. was probably responding historically rather than from his personal perspective.

I'll add that the 11th commandment should be: "Thou shalt be polite", and also that our Christian God most likely approves of how most other cultures or peoples define him (or her*).

*for Bernard

apple, as far as Ranauda goes,

for me his posts leave the impression of an army of pompus phrases moving over the landscape in search of an idea. Sometimes his meandering words actually capture a straggeling thought and bear it triumphantly as a prisoner in their midst until it dies of servatude and overwork. But mostly he's a hose head. Oops! I stand corrected, a hoser.

I like him though.

Apple, actually it has no more to do with history than it does with the crass materialism which another member of this Forum took it to mean. It's actually very spiritual and deeply personal. It is as much Christian in its origin as it is of any other creed or faith. I have done well by it so far in my adult life and therefore have no intenetion to discard it in order to conform and accommodate others in the confines of an organized system of beliefs or dogma.

In keeping with other posts that have appeared in this CR from time to time, permit me to post the words of a deceased Englishman who summarized very accurately at least a part of what I was trying attempting to relate:

People say I'm crazy doing what I'm doing,
Well they give me all kinds of warnings to save me from ruin,
When I say that I'm o.k. they look at me kind of strange,
Surely your not happy now you no longer play the game,

People say I'm lazy dreaming my life away,
Well they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me,
When I tell that I'm doing Fine watching shadows on the wall,
Don't you miss the big time boy you're no longer on the ball?

I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll,
No longer riding on the merry-go-round,
I just had to let it go,

People asking questions lost in confusion,
Well I tell them there's no problem,
Only solutions,
Well they shake their heads and they look at me as if I've lost my mind,
I tell them there's no hurry...
I'm just sitting here doing time,

I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round,
I really love to watch them roll,
No longer riding on the merry-go-round,
I just had to let it go.

Perhaps he was wrong too. I don't know, but I'll give his lyrics the benefit of my doubts.