Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?

How do people become gay since they were raised in a "non-alternative" lifestyle?
Maybe roll modeling just doesn't apply to the straight/gay thing.
A gay kid raised in an environment of intolerance WILL be more likely to grow up straight acting and appearing, but that ain't that same thing as straight, Jolly.

I do not have children.
Does that disqualify me from having an opinion here?


Oh, and gay IS normal for gay people.
Just like straight is persumably "normal" for you.
Then again they say the biggest homophobes are the most insecure hets, terrified of their shadow (in the Jungian sense).

BTW Jolly, do you think evil and satan are in all of us or they are external?

If Apple's son turns out to be a homosexual, you can bet your tootin' it wasn't because he was lured (unless there was something I missed in this thread). She as likely as you, me, Kenny or Hillary to have a homosexual offspring.

Edit: ... or John Ashcroft.

Is gayness inherited?
Do you think it is a recessive or a dominant trait?

Of course real data will never exist until it is safe for gays to stand up and be counted.
Not in our lifetime judging by the crap in this coffee room.

One thing that makes me barf is how quickly people say, “ Why, I have two friends, or cousins, who are gay. . .”
After demonstrating membership in some cool club, they pen their poison.

No children? Then you do not understand, not completely.

When you have children, you try to make their world a little better. You try to insulate them from worldliness, and you try to instill within them the values you think they should have to make their way through life.

You have that responsibility, and no amount of fancy word-play, or logical deductive arguments can convince me to waver from that basic truth.

As to whether we all have Evil inside, I am afraid that is our nature, and a burden we must bear. Chalk me up on the side of Original Sin.

What if they are gay?
What if I am gay?

A better world for our kids? yes we agree.

Jolly, since I don't have kids would you like me to delete my posts here?
Verily verily I say unto you, those who "don't understand, not completely" should not be welcome in a forum, perhaps on this earth. Right?

Wouldn't it be comfy if everyone was like you?
May you be blessed with gay children that you may grow.

Enuf pontification for one night.
I'm sleepy.
Hugs,
Opps, sholder slap, "How 'bout them Cubbies?"

Sorry old son, my children are a far cry from gay, so you'll have to just chew your lip on that one.

As to deleting your posts, no, I did not say that, you did. I stand behind what I did say, however. If someone does not have children, they do not completely understand the responsibility, and the viewpoint that comes with it.

Lastly, I did not say everyone had to be like me, and I don't think I ever have. I will say what I believe to be right, and what I believe to be wrong.

I do not suffer from the disease of situational ethics, nor moral relativism.

Welll..

I had not checked in on this thread until now.

Wow!

I am somewhat chagrined at the tack the discussion has taken. Jolly's little ditty is really about transvestites, not homosexuals. And most transvestites are straight.

Go back and re-read, J.A.

You are confused some more.

Apple

I know I am late in my comments, but I echo others who recommend you report this uncle.

You and I are both parents. We both know what is "normal" sexual curiosity and sexual play in little children ("I'll show you mine if you show me yours") and w eknow how to handle it without making it more than it really is. But what you are describing is not normal play.

Nor is having a 10 year old that sexualized normal.

One of the first signs of sexually abused child is a child having/playing at sexual activities beyond his years. No, you cannot be sure this 10 year old is abused. But there is definitely a red flag there.

The fact the uncle is gay has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. My guess is the uncle being gay does not really bother you either. The fact the uncle may be a pedophile has a lot to do with it and isn't this what really bothers you? As a parent, if there were a pedophile in my neighborhood -- gay, straight or whatever -- I would take action to protect my children.

A child in your neighborhood needs to be protected. And it sounds like his younger brother needs to be too. And perhaps other children in the neighborhood.

Are you up to doing something about it? I think if it were me, I would make an appointment with the principal at the kids' school and just tell him what my suspicions are. Then let them check into it and handle it. They know how to handle these things -- unfortunately, they have had to learn.

While one may be lured into a homosexual action, one cannot be lured into being homosexual.

I am certainly not advocating anyone's child be lured into any sexual activity -- homosexual or straight. But two little boys or two little girls doing something out of curiousity or because it feels good does not mean they are gay or lesbians.

Homosexuality is not defined by physical/sexual activity. It is defined by the gender one needs in order to find love, satisfaction and fulfillment in one's life partner. The sexual activity is nothing more than an expression of this, just as it is for heterosexuals.

Well, I did as you suggested, Jolly. I re-read it. I cannot find one line that indicates the child in the skit is gay. What I find, though, is an entire song about a male enjoying wearing female clothing. In short, a transvestite -- most of whom are heterosexual.

If I had to handle it at all, I would have made some comment that such intense physical interaction should be done in private and then dropped it.

To me, what these men did was inappropriate -- and it would have been just as inappropriate if a man and woman had done it. To me, the problem was not two men, the problem was doing something in front of others that is meant to be done in a more private situation.

Sounds sensible enough to me.

Larry--

A most gentle query: Why do you feel that the intent of these lyrics are to "indoctrinate" children to become homosexual? Could this not just be humor? When Allegra was younger, she loved walking around in my high heels and wearing her daddy's undershirt as a "gown." While you've mostly likely never tried it, provided that one has feet that can take it, walking in high heels can be fun. Occasionally, I slip on a pair of stilettos, and I love being eye-to-eye with the guys during intermission at the opera! It gives me an entirely new perspective on things. Could not a little boy like to "stand up" to his parents?

I'm not Larry, but...

So let them say I?m like a girl!
What?s wrong with being like a girl?!
And let them jump and jeer and whirl?
They are the swine, I am the pearl!
And let them laugh and let them scream!
They?ll be beheaded when I?m queen!
When I rule the world! When I rule the world!
When I rule the world, in my mommy?s high heels!

...I'm not too sure about the humor thing.

While I don't think you can 'indoctrinate' someone into being gay (a gay friend told me that in kindergarten he fell in love with other boys, not girls, like I did), I wouldn't want my 5y old exposed to things like

"And let them jump and jeer and whirl?
They are the swine, I am the pearl!
And let them laugh and let them scream!
They?ll be beheaded when I?m queen! " presented as humor in high heels.

I really fail to see how this is teaching respect.

I'll have to read through this entire thread when I get the chance!

Kenny,

I wasn't trying to be a name dropper if that was directed at me. Just trying to demonstrate why the stereotypes bothered me personally.

Ariel,

You did clarify things a lot. I wonder if you placing a higher value on traditional roles than I do is due to your being a single mother of boys (that was you, right?) Maybe I'm less traditional because being only 1/2 the parental team is so much easier than being all of it. Hat's off to you.

Lastly,

Someone educate me. Isn't a "queen" a homosexual transvestite reference? Or is it just a transvestite reference?

Todd

"Lured" involves some sort of reward, which has not been demonstrated. And to even consider that anyone, no matter how militant, considers homosexuality better than heterosexuality, belies your complete ignorance of the subject. You really don't know any homosexuals, do you? Are you really of the opinion that there is some cadre of homosexuals out there subverting the minds of children to induct them into the (as you blithely spit out) "lifestyle" of homosexuality? Sorry, it doesn't exist. It doesn't need to exist.

Let's get one thing completely clear here. There is absolutely no excuse for any adult, gay or straight, to prey upon children for sexual activity. Period. Children do not have the mental or emotional capacity to understand the implications of sexual activity.

That said, though, there is an age at which children do become aware of sexual matters in a mostly adult sense. And at this age, kids start to become more clearly aware of whether they are attracted to the same or the opposite sex (or both). This is all spontaneously generated, needing no induction, coercion, argument or rationale from anyone else. It really just is what it is, and isn't influenced by any cultural or social factors.

What happens next, however, is a matter of pure socialization. A child that feels homosexual tendencies at that age who lives within a society that is highly intolerant of homosexual behavior will most likely hide any outward manifestation of his or her sexual attraction. Some may become so concerned that others will find out that they become über-macho or über-feminine, sometimes even more so than their otherwise straight counterparts. For others, the choice is to display an outward indifference to sexual matters so as not to raise any suspicions. And for yet another portion, the internalized loathing of their own homosexual attraction puts them into attack mode against other homosexuals, as if by externalizing the attraction and destroying it they can sublimate their own desires.

Any of these types can and do take opposite-sex spouses, have children and raise families, as they have since the dawn of time. Nobody "knows" they're homosexual except for the anonymous partners that such people pick up for sexual encounters. These people are the stock and trade of many a gay bar (hence the term "trade"), and form nearly the entire clientele base for gay and transvestite protitutes.

But, woe betide the child who for reasons of personal integrity refuses to hide behind a mask of heterosexual "normalness" in such a society. He or she will likely be ostracized by family, church and friends. And, usually, the younger the child, the more vehement the denouncement. What happens to these kids? They run away from home in an attempt to escape the torment, often only to find a netherworld of drugs and sex that will chew them up and spit them out. Or, some choose a take a more radical approach and kill themselves in a last-ditch effort to gain some peace.

Obviously, none of the scenarios presented above are "beneficial to society" for any number of reasons: loveless, trustless marriages, deception, violence, death, etc. But this is how things will remain until such time as society as a whole, and, perhaps even more importantly, we as individuals can learn to accept homosexuality as just another part of the human condition and not something revolting.

Rvaga, speak for yourself and not the rest of us "Hets".

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com

They are our responsibility. There's a difference.