Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?

Posted by Jolly,

I've tried it too, and my advice Matt G. is to question what you put your faith in. I'm not saying faith is bad, on the contrary, faith has gotten me through some of the roughest times. But be careful, faith can be blind.

That's pretty much the summation, I agree:

"Cootie Shots" is pushing an agenda.

"Not corrupted or perverted" is your opinion.

"...a way of promoting the 'Golden Rule'" - is spin, because it is secondary as related to your stated premise : "Cootie Shots" is pushing an agenda."

Don't worry though Bernard. Some parent, like a KathyK, will decide for whatever reason that the play (or similar) should be presented to little children, based on being just. . . smarter than anyone else I guess. A school will refuse, because obviously the majority of parents will disagree, if this forum is any indication.

Then, the ACLU will be brought in (or similar), or better yet, someone like KathyK can pursue it on her own as a lawyer. And, the end result: the play will be shown, all kids will know that most parents are ****ed-off about this, and the whole point of the play will be turned on its head.

Kids are kids -- If they know their parents are ****ed-off about something, that perspective will carry over into the classroom as well as the playground and everywhere else. The message of accepting "diversity" will turn into name-calling and bullying as soon as the teachers are out of range, for any behavior any kid deems anywhere similar to what the behavior in the play is depicting, or the kid's interpretation of it all trying to guess what his/her parents meant at home.

The one mistake the gays are making in pushing their agenda via the children, is that what happens at home trumps what happens at school. KathyK and similarly inclined people can force the kids to look and listen to the play, but she can't force what is said in the home about the play.

So, I think I have changed my opinion. This play SHOULD be shown in schools everywhere, and let's see what happens. We can only imagine the discussions in millions of homes and you know what? This means of recruitment, or "Golden Rule" or whatever you want to call it, however you want to spin it, might well have the exact opposite effect than intended.

(the above edited, as the Piano World server is taking about 2 minutes to load a page tonight)

There is, furthermore, a way in which Cootie Shots' adgenda differs from yours; it doesn't presume to be superior.


Oh to the contrary, Bernard. It presumes to be superior to me period. It is *based* on the belief that not only the average parent's views but the parents themselves are inferior to their socially engineered agendas.
Otherwise, there would be no need for the play to exist - the parents would be seen as capable of instructing their children properly with no other help needed.

Unless of course, there is yet *another* agenda......

Some more facts about Cootie Shots (all emphases mine):

"Editors Norma Bowles and Mark E. Rosenthal, the founders of Fringe Benefits, spent two years collaborating with more than 500 elementary school teachers, parents, therapists, administrators, theater artists, visual artists and youth to create the richly illustrated paperback. Cootie Shots contains 50 pieces lasting two to 15 minutes, which may be used in the classroom. "

--Not exactly a group of homosexuals, although the originators of the idea do promote equality for homosexuals, they saw fit to include a wide group of people in the creation of "Cootie Shots". I wonder if those on the right would have been so inclusive.

It was shown at 2 schools in California.

"Students, parents, and educators throughout California and in other states have enthusiastically received the Cootie Shots show, but a small group of Novato parents objected to the show, "

--The suit against it was brought by 8 parents. Not only that, but the show was welcomed by many parents:

"A Novato parent group and a Los Angeles-based children’s theater company filed a motion today in federal court to intervene as defendants in the case Citizens for Parental Rights v. Novato Unified School District. "

--I also think it's pretty interesting that the United Church of Christ finds value in Cootie Shots: OWL


It sounds to me like a lot of noise is being generated by a small group of people.

I think when you have 1st graders going around calling other children "faggots" it is a clear indication that some parents are not capable of doing their job well.

The amazing thing is that we're discussing such a piece might even get within a MILE of our children.

Let kids see trash like this and they'd all be crying about their 20 years of analysis. (I know such things--I was a child too. )

Parents know what's best for their kids--but what's remarkable to me is how much freedom they give to people with vast and evil agendas to propagandize their kids. Parents--GIVE their children to these public school systems and then wonder why the kids are unhappy or can't learn. And they know better. But most parents don't have the self confidence to make proper decisions for their families--why, they learned how to make decisions in government schools.

Teachers and administrators in government run schools are just as psycho as mail carriers in the government run postal system. That have deep and dark and secret problems. Columbine wasn't any different than any of the shoot 'um ups that happen in post offices.

This is a ridiculous conversation, to even discuss kids seeing things like this. My kids won't come within a mile of such crap--they're in a private school.

TomAsterisk Tense?

Actually, related to original issue. I don't get it. In our school system I am continually being asked to sign things giving (or not) my permission for my son to do the most mundane things (example, see "Fantome of the Opera" watch movies one step above PG 13 on field trips, use the Internet at school). He's almost 16!

Certainly they make me sign off his sex-ed material in advance (and I ask to see the books too).

Good, bad, indifferent - or a combination - don't other school districts have these rules so that parents who disagree with particular content, get their kids excused? I can even sign my son out of routine assessment testing (and I've been on the point of doing it often, because of the tremendous loss of instructional time).

As a matter of fact, more than once my son's entire class has been unable to watch a given movie - say a classic Shakespeanean film - because even one parent objected! And often because of a single four letter word.

Ariel

Damn! Ariel, you got me there.

Yes, Ariel, you are exactly correct, and this is the problem and why parents are upset. From back on page 3 of this thread:

gryphon:
Another thing that the defenders of Cootie Shots ignore is the fact that the schools are showing this to elementary school students in violation of the opt-out forms that parents had previously signed to excuse their children from exposure to any material dealing with sex, morality, or religion. They also didn't give prior notice to the parents or allow parents to review the material to be presented beforehand, all California state education code requirements.

Unfortunately you have others who don't give a damn about the parents:

Jack Frost:
I believe that all kids at a very early age should learn that some men love each other and some women love each other in the same way that mommy and daddy love each other and that that is ok.
and
[Mark Rosenthal, one of the original authors]"I AM BURNING! Norma [Norma Bowles, co-author] just told me that those stupid [obscene noun] are at it again. . . [Obscene adjective] parents are posting signs around the school we're visiting on Monday, urging people to keep their kids home."

A child can be taught about discrimination and tolerance by discussing people of different races or handicaps for example. Sex and homosexuality are not age-appropriate topics for little children. In addition, parents have the right, recognized and backed up by the state, to have direct control and approval over what their children are taught with respect to certain topics that might violate their religious beliefs, etc. It is unfortunate that the social engineers and agenda-driven liberals don't care.

Agreed. I think what we're seeing is a knee-jerk reaction to the most controversial part the play (not coincidentally), plucked out of context; i.e. "OMG!!! A boy in high heels! TRASH, TRASH, TRASH!!!" I admit, it seemed very strange to me until I explored the links Bernard posted to see what it was all about. If those of you harsh critics would do the same rather than relying on your reaction to the initial post, you might feel differently about it.

I believe I have made direct reference to other things in Cootie Shots besides Larry's initial skit, kathyk. And this was prior to Bernard's bothering to check it out further, too. And maybe you can explain to me what this has to do with Darwinism.

Oh, wait, I get it. Survival of the species...homosexuals will not procreate? Am I close?

They signify closing one's mind without gathering all the relevant info: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. NAANANANANANA - my ears are plugged - I'm not listening!!!!

I apologize to you Gryphon if you looked deeper.

I have no children but I think I can speak for my parents when I say they probably would not have let me within a country mile of something called "cootie shots".

I don't know about that. Therapists, theater artists, visual artists, anybody that would call their company "Fringe Benefits" and any grown up that could actually sit down and write a "play" called "Cootie Shots" featuring a boy wearing his mother's high heels for a bunch of 12 year olds--I'd have my doubts about.

education tax money - How do you spend it when there's so much ...?

Maureen Dowd could have a heyday with that quote from you.

I thing she said, "Context. We don't need no stinkin' context." but I may be wrong.

I understood your point but if we had a boy singing a song about all the educational things young boys do and all the benefits they provide to society who then threw in one line about being king and beheading all the f****ts, a giant fuss would be raised about it. Selectivity is not an exclusive trait of those trying to prevent dilution of moral values.

She just slaps me when I bite them........

jf

Fulfilling federal and state mandates

Agreed. I think what we're seeing is a knee-jerk reaction to the most controversial part the play (not coincidentally), plucked out of context; i.e. "OMG!!! A boy in high heels! TRASH, TRASH, TRASH!!!" I admit, it seemed very strange to me until I explored the links Bernard posted to see what it was all about. If those of you harsh critics would do the same rather than relying on your reaction to the initial post, you might feel differently about it.

In other words, because *you* think that you've "researched" this beyond what I did, then you have the ultimate truth on the matter, and I'm just an ignorant hillbilly conservative who reacts at a simple minded level far below what you're capable of, someone to be dismissed with a well placed chuckle and a knowing nod of your far more intellectual head.

I've got news for you. I am just as intelligent, just as well educated, and just as sophisticated as you. I cannot and will not be dismissed with such a shallow, smug attitude of superiority.

Cootie shots is just the tip of the iceberg. Our schools are under attack, and the goal is to indoctrinate our children. If you think that I started this thread with nothing more than Cootie Shots as proof of this, then it is *you* that is making a knee jerk reaction, not using an open mind, and thinking in a simple minded fashion. And in your delusional comfort zone where you are the "intellectual sophisticate" and I am simply a "knee jerk reactionary" who isn't capable of thinking as deeply as you, you have severely underestimated me, and overestimated yourself.

More to come as it fits into my schedule.