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#800047 - 03/21/04 09:51 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Jolly Offline
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Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
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#800048 - 03/21/04 09:59 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Posted by Jolly,

 Quote:
...In my case, faith helps. If you haven't tried it, I do recommend it. ...
I've tried it too, and my advice Matt G. is to question what you put your faith in. I'm not saying faith is bad, on the contrary, faith has gotten me through some of the roughest times. But be careful, faith can be blind.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#800049 - 03/21/04 10:45 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
 Quote:
Bernard:
There is no denying "Cootie Shots" is pushing an agenda. It's just that the adgenda is not corrupted or perverted and I see it as a way of promoting the "Golden Rule".
[/b]
That's pretty much the summation, I agree:

"Cootie Shots" is pushing an agenda.

"Not corrupted or perverted" is your opinion.

"...a way of promoting the 'Golden Rule'" - is spin, because it is secondary as related to your stated premise : "Cootie Shots" is pushing an agenda."

Don't worry though Bernard. Some parent, like a KathyK, will decide for whatever reason that the play (or similar) should be presented to little children, based on being just. . . smarter than anyone else I guess. A school will refuse, because obviously the majority of parents will disagree, if this forum is any indication.

Then, the ACLU will be brought in (or similar), or better yet, someone like KathyK can pursue it on her own as a lawyer. And, the end result: the play will be shown, all kids will know that most parents are ****ed-off about this, and the whole point of the play will be turned on its head.

Kids are kids -- If they know their parents are ****ed-off about something, that perspective will carry over into the classroom as well as the playground and everywhere else. The message of accepting "diversity" will turn into name-calling and bullying as soon as the teachers are out of range, for any behavior any kid deems anywhere similar to what the behavior in the play is depicting, or the kid's interpretation of it all trying to guess what his/her parents meant at home.

The one mistake the gays are making in pushing their agenda via the children, is that what happens at home trumps what happens at school.[/b] KathyK and similarly inclined people can force the kids to look and listen to the play, but she can't force what is said in the home about the play.

So, I think I have changed my opinion. This play SHOULD be shown in schools everywhere, and let's see what happens. We can only imagine the discussions in millions of homes and you know what? This means of recruitment, or "Golden Rule" or whatever you want to call it, however you want to spin it, might well have the exact opposite effect than intended.

(the above edited, as the Piano World server is taking about 2 minutes to load a page tonight)

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#800050 - 03/21/04 11:05 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
There is, furthermore, a way in which Cootie Shots' adgenda differs from yours; it doesn't presume to be superior.[/b]


Oh to the contrary, Bernard. It presumes to be superior to me period. It is *based* on the belief that not only the average parent's views but the parents themselves are inferior to their socially engineered agendas.
Otherwise, there would be no need for the play to exist - the parents would be seen as capable of instructing their children properly with no other help needed.

Unless of course, there is yet *another* agenda......
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#800051 - 03/21/04 11:15 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Some more facts about Cootie Shots (all emphases mine):

"Editors Norma Bowles and Mark E. Rosenthal, the founders of Fringe Benefits, spent two years collaborating with more than 500 elementary school teachers, parents, therapists, administrators, theater artists, visual artists and youth to create the richly illustrated paperback. Cootie Shots contains 50 pieces lasting two to 15 minutes, which may be used in the classroom. "

--Not exactly a group of homosexuals, although the originators of the idea do promote equality for homosexuals, they saw fit to include a wide group of people in the creation of "Cootie Shots". I wonder if those on the right would have been so inclusive.

It was shown at 2 schools in California.

"Students, parents, and educators throughout California and in other states have enthusiastically received the Cootie Shots show, but a small group of Novato parents objected to the show, "

--The suit against it was brought by 8 parents. Not only that, but the show was welcomed by many parents:

"A Novato parent group and a Los Angeles-based children’s theater company filed a motion today in federal court to intervene as defendants in the case Citizens for Parental Rights v. Novato Unified School District. "

--I also think it's pretty interesting that the United Church of Christ finds value in Cootie Shots: OWL


It sounds to me like a lot of noise is being generated by a small group of people.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#800052 - 03/21/04 11:18 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
I think when you have 1st graders going around calling other children "faggots" it is a clear indication that some parents are not capable of doing their job well.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#800053 - 03/21/04 11:30 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
The amazing thing is that we're discussing such a piece might even get within a MILE of our children.

Let kids see trash like this and they'd all be crying about their 20 years of analysis. (I know such things--I was a child too. ;\) )

Parents know what's best for their kids--but what's remarkable to me is how much freedom they give to people with vast and evil agendas to propagandize their kids. Parents--GIVE their children to these public school systems and then wonder why the kids are unhappy or can't learn. And they know better. But most parents don't have the self confidence to make proper decisions for their families--why, they learned how to make decisions in government schools.

Teachers and administrators in government run schools are just as psycho as mail carriers in the government run postal system. That have deep and dark and secret problems. Columbine wasn't any different than any of the shoot 'um ups that happen in post offices.

This is a ridiculous conversation, to even discuss kids seeing things like this. My kids won't come within a mile of such crap--they're in a private school.

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#800054 - 03/22/04 02:50 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
TomAsterisk
 Quote:
was [/b]
Tense? ;\)

Actually, related to original issue. I don't get it. In our school system I am continually being asked to sign things giving (or not) my permission for my son to do the most mundane things (example, see "Fantome of the Opera" watch movies one step above PG 13 on field trips, use the Internet at school). He's almost 16!

Certainly they make me sign off his sex-ed material in advance (and I ask to see the books too).

Good, bad, indifferent - or a combination - don't other school districts have these rules so that parents who disagree with particular content, get their kids excused? I can even sign my son out of routine assessment testing (and I've been on the point of doing it often, because of the tremendous loss of instructional time).

As a matter of fact, more than once my son's entire class has been unable to watch a given movie - say a classic Shakespeanean film - because even one parent objected! And often because of a single four letter word.

Ariel
_________________________
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#800055 - 03/22/04 07:49 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Posted by Ariel: Tense? [/b]
Damn! Ariel, you got me there. \:D

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#800056 - 03/22/04 08:11 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
don't other school districts have these rules so that parents who disagree with particular content, get their kids excused? [/b]
Yes, Ariel, you are exactly correct, and this is the problem and why parents are upset. From back on page 3 of this thread:

gryphon:
Another thing that the defenders of Cootie Shots ignore is the fact that the schools are showing this to elementary school students in violation of the opt-out forms that parents had previously signed to excuse their children from exposure to any material dealing with sex, morality, or religion. They also didn't give prior notice to the parents or allow parents to review the material to be presented beforehand, all California state education code requirements.[/b]

Unfortunately you have others who don't give a damn about the parents:

Jack Frost:
I believe that all kids at a very early age should learn that some men love each other and some women love each other in the same way that mommy and daddy love each other and that that is ok.[/b]
and
[Mark Rosenthal, one of the original authors]"I AM BURNING! Norma [Norma Bowles, co-author] just told me that those stupid [obscene noun] are at it again. . . [Obscene adjective] parents are posting signs around the school we're visiting on Monday, urging people to keep their kids home."[/b]

A child can be taught about discrimination and tolerance by discussing people of different races or handicaps for example. Sex and homosexuality are not age-appropriate topics for little children. In addition, parents have the right, recognized and backed up by the state, to have direct control and approval over what their children are taught with respect to certain topics that might violate their religious beliefs, etc. It is unfortunate that the social engineers and agenda-driven liberals don't care.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
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#800057 - 03/22/04 08:42 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
Some more facts about Cootie Shots (all emphases mine):

"Editors Norma Bowles and Mark E. Rosenthal, the founders of Fringe Benefits, spent two years collaborating with more than 500 elementary school teachers, parents, therapists, administrators, theater artists, visual artists and youth to create the richly illustrated paperback. Cootie Shots contains 50 pieces lasting two to 15 minutes, which may be used in the classroom. "

--Not exactly a group of homosexuals, although the originators of the idea do promote equality for homosexuals, they saw fit to include a wide group of people in the creation of "Cootie Shots". I wonder if those on the right would have been so inclusive.

It was shown at 2 schools in California.

"Students, parents, and educators throughout California and in other states have enthusiastically received the Cootie Shots show, but a small group of Novato parents objected to the show, "

--The suit against it was brought by 8 parents. Not only that, but the show was welcomed by many parents:

"A Novato parent group and a Los Angeles-based children’s theater company filed a motion today in federal court to intervene as defendants in the case Citizens for Parental Rights v. Novato Unified School District. "

--I also think it's pretty interesting that the United Church of Christ finds value in Cootie Shots: OWL


It sounds to me like a lot of noise is being generated by a small group of people. [/b]
Agreed. I think what we're seeing is a knee-jerk reaction to the most controversial part the play (not coincidentally), plucked out of context; i.e. "OMG!!! A boy in high heels! TRASH, TRASH, TRASH!!!" I admit, it seemed very strange to me until I explored the links Bernard posted to see what it was all about. If those of you harsh critics would do the same rather than relying on your reaction to the initial post, you might feel differently about it.

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#800058 - 03/22/04 09:12 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
I believe I have made direct reference to other things in Cootie Shots besides Larry's initial skit, kathyk. And this was prior to Bernard's bothering to check it out further, too. And maybe you can explain to me what this has to do with Darwinism.

Oh, wait, I get it. Survival of the species...homosexuals will not procreate? Am I close?
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#800059 - 03/22/04 09:16 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
They signify closing one's mind without gathering all the relevant info: Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. NAANANANANANA - my ears are plugged - I'm not listening!!!!

I apologize to you Gryphon if you looked deeper.

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#800060 - 03/22/04 09:32 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
JBryan Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 9798
Loc: Oklahoma City
I have no children but I think I can speak for my parents when I say they probably would not have let me within a country mile of something called "cootie shots".
_________________________
Better to light one small candle than to curse the %&#$@#! darkness.

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#800061 - 03/22/04 09:42 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Posted by Bernard "Editors Norma Bowles and Mark E. Rosenthal, the founders of Fringe Benefits, spent two years collaborating with more than 500 elementary school teachers, parents, therapists, administrators, theater artists, visual artists and youth to create the richly illustrated paperback. Cootie Shots contains 50 pieces lasting two to 15 minutes, which may be used in the classroom. "

--Not exactly a group of homosexuals,[/b]
I don't know about that. Therapists, theater artists, visual artists, anybody that would call their company "Fringe Benefits" and any grown up that could actually sit down and write a "play" called "Cootie Shots" featuring a boy wearing his mother's high heels for a bunch of 12 year olds--I'd have my doubts about. \:D

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#800062 - 03/22/04 09:49 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
education tax money - How do you spend it when there's so much ...?
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#800063 - 03/22/04 10:07 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:
Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. NAANANANANANA - my ears are plugged - I'm not listening!!!!
[/b]
Maureen Dowd could have a heyday with that quote from you.

I thing she said, "Context. We don't need no stinkin' context." but I may be wrong. \:D

I understood your point but if we had a boy singing a song about all the educational things young boys do and all the benefits they provide to society who then threw in one line about being king and beheading all the f****ts, a giant fuss would be raised about it. Selectivity is not an exclusive trait of those trying to prevent dilution of moral values.
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Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#800064 - 03/22/04 10:07 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Jack Frost Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/10/03
Posts: 4454
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by rvaga:
Jack Frost,

What color does KathyK paint your nails?

\:D [/b]
She just slaps me when I bite them........

jf
_________________________
"Make the pie higher." GWB

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#800065 - 03/22/04 10:08 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
 Quote:
Originally posted by apple:
education tax money - How do you spend it when there's so much ...? [/b]
Fulfilling federal and state mandates
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#800066 - 03/22/04 10:18 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Agreed. I think what we're seeing is a knee-jerk reaction to the most controversial part the play (not coincidentally), plucked out of context; i.e. "OMG!!! A boy in high heels! TRASH, TRASH, TRASH!!!" I admit, it seemed very strange to me until I explored the links Bernard posted to see what it was all about. If those of you harsh critics would do the same rather than relying on your reaction to the initial post, you might feel differently about it. [/b]

In other words, because *you* think that you've "researched" this beyond what I did, then you have the ultimate truth on the matter, and I'm just an ignorant hillbilly conservative who reacts at a simple minded level far below what you're capable of, someone to be dismissed with a well placed chuckle and a knowing nod of your far more intellectual head.

I've got news for you. I am just as intelligent, just as well educated, and just as sophisticated as you. I cannot and will not be dismissed with such a shallow, smug attitude of superiority.

Cootie shots is just the tip of the iceberg. Our schools are under attack, and the goal is to indoctrinate our children. If you think that I started this thread with nothing more than Cootie Shots as proof of this, then it is *you* that is making a knee jerk reaction, not using an open mind, and thinking in a simple minded fashion. And in your delusional comfort zone where you are the "intellectual sophisticate" and I am simply a "knee jerk reactionary" who isn't capable of thinking as deeply as you, you have severely underestimated me, and overestimated yourself.

More to come as it fits into my schedule.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#800067 - 03/22/04 11:03 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
John Andrew Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 3041
Loc: Southern California
I have made a few comments in this thread but have yet to comment on whether I think children should be see this program as part of their school curriculum.

Personally, I do not like the idea of this program or anything of the myriad of special programs that are out there being brought into elementary schools. Not because I do not approve of what is being presented, but because I am opposed to all of this sort of peripheral education for the children. I do not like an outside group teaching social values. I do not like an outside group teaching sexual values. I do not like an outside group teaching cultural value. I do not like an outside group teaching religious values.

I do not like such things as Black History Month, Christmas Programs, prayer in school or anything else which divides the children or emphasizes a division in a pluralistic society. The divisions are there. The kids see them and know them. The schools need not emphasize them -- even if the intent is benign. More often than not, when one listens to the children afterwards, these programs backfire as often as they succeed.

Yes, the children should be taught tolerance. More importantly, they should be taught acceptance. But it needs to imbue all of what happens in school as it must in all of society. It should not be a special subject matter or presented through some sort of special program, month or anything of that sort.

If the children are attacking other children who are different (as they will), this becomes a learning situation. If within a subject matter, such as history, geography or whatever, there is discussion of people from different backgrounds, cultures, whatever, acceptance of these people should be taught. If the sports minded kids are attacking those who are more intellectually or artistically inclined, this is a basis on which to teach proper values of tolerance and acceptance. If those who achieve more or get higher grades or whatever act as if this makes them better human beings than the other children, a learning possibility develops.

But I think it all should be within the context of the normal educational process and the normal social environment of the school.

The other side of the problem is also unacceptable to me, the inherent teaching of intolerance and non-acceptance. In too many curricula and school environments, differences are not accepted and children are indirectly taught that some people are inferior to others. Too many schools celebrate sports victories but not academic, artistic or scientific victories. History and literature are taught with a strong euro-centric base. Education and the entire school experience must be value/culture/lifestyle neutral.

I have raised (almost finished, thank God) three children. One has completed college, one is in college, one is still in high school. I have never liked these types of programs because I think they take away from what I believe the children need to be focused on. They also tend to define problems the children do not necessarily have, but become problems as soon as the adults emphasize them as problems for the children.

A case in point was the discussion we had a couple of months ago about the 7 year old who told his friend his mother had a female lover. This friend told his parents and all hell broke loose. No doubt, the two seven year olds had resolved this in a seven year old manner. But the adults stepped in and made it something it never should have been for children that young.

Another example. I recall one of my sons having to do an oral report on the biography of some famous person -- sixth or seventh grade I think it was. In his research he found out this person was homosexual. He thought it was pertinent and intended to include it in his oral report. Because part of the assignment for this was to teach the children how to prepare for oral reports, he had to hand in an outline. The teacher struck this from his presentation because she felt it was not appropriate.

This is the type of intolerance and non-acceptance that needs to be removed from the schools. One sentence uttered by one child in one oral report was not going to damage any child or undermine any parent's authority -- but it might have helped some child in a couple of more years when he/she was grappling with accepting his/her own homosexuality.

One thing I have found in my children's education is that the children usually see through agenda ridden curricula really quickly and judge it as such, especially as the children get older. I have yet to see one of these programs have much impact on the children anyway. The moment the program is done and any follow-up discussion/activity has taken place, the kids move on to what they find as more important things -- like who hurt their feelings, what is going to be on the next test, complaining about having to read ANOTHER book and do ANOTHER book report or whining about how hard long division is and why do they have to learn it because they will never use it in their life anyway, blah, blah, blah.

rvaga says a few posts up that what happens at home and the attitudes at home are the most important. This is true. It does not matter what the schools teach or what programs they bring in. If the same values are not taught at home, the school program is meaningless. The schools can teach tolerance all they want; but if the home teaches intolerance, the children will be intolerant.

apple says "education tax money - How do you spend it when there's so much ...?" I do not know if this type of program results because there is too much money. However, her point of determining educational priorities is an important one. In my opinion, if there is money for such extra curricular activities, then let the kids go to a museum, bring in a special program on the orchestra or art, or some other special curriculum that underlines education, not social values.

Tolerance and acceptance must be the mindset of all school adminstrators and all teachers -- and it must be incorporated in the entire school environent. But it should not be a special curriculum or a special program. It simply should be how things are at school.
_________________________
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#800068 - 03/22/04 11:25 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
JA:
...sixth or seventh grade I think it was. In his research he found out this person was homosexual. He thought it was pertinent [/b]

I didn't even know what a homosexual was in sixth grade or that the word (or people) even existed.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#800069 - 03/22/04 11:29 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
 Quote:
JA said:
Yes, the children should be taught tolerance. More importantly, they should be taught acceptance.[/b]
More importantly, they should be taught to discriminate. Not all things should be tolerated. Not all things should be accepted. Learning which is which is what is what.
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#800070 - 03/22/04 11:45 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
very nice... JA.. you are so thoughtful sometimes.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#800071 - 03/22/04 02:51 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
gryphon:
 Quote:
JA:
...sixth or seventh grade I think it was. In his research he found out this person was homosexual. He thought it was pertinent

I didn't even know what a homosexual was in sixth grade or that the word (or people) even existed.[/b]
I'm just remembering that when my second son was in elementary school, right around fourth grade, "gay" (later spelled "gheigh")became a put-down.

It's still used as an adjective for just about everything the kids want to describe in a negative way. We're talking High School now. And I'm still having a hell of a time eradicating it from his vocabulary. I THINK, thiough, that it's finally penetrating that, like the similar use of "retarded", it might seriously hurt the feelings of someone hearing it. A someone who might feel it applies to him or her, or a family member.

Things have changed, gryphon. I too don't EVER recalling hearing the word (or an derogatory equivalent like "fag") in school. Perhaps part of it is that I (later) went to an all-girls' high school - though we talked like Marines. Maybe it's more of a "guy" put-down. "Fatso" or "fatty" or "scag" were the dreaded words in my recollection.

The funny thing is, when I asked my son about the word "gay" when he first started using it as an insult - as expected - neither he (nor his friends) had the faintest foggiest idea what it meant!

Ariel
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
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#800072 - 03/22/04 02:53 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
Remember when we used to call each other queer? I was reading my senior yearbook, and almost every little note/signature included "You are so Queer" \:D .

I didn't know what gay was till I was 19!. Of course I had my first beer at 18, and me second at 19.. (Won't tell what happened when I turned 21). :p
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#800073 - 03/22/04 02:58 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
I think when you have 1st graders going around calling other children "faggots" it is a clear indication that some parents are not capable of doing their job well. [/b]
While I PERSONALLY disagree with the term used by these first graders, as an American I would fight to the death to defend these kids' Freedom of Speech! \:D

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#800074 - 03/22/04 03:07 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
We called each other queer too, but we darn well knew what it meant and it was meant to be the utlimate put-down, even when in jest. I had one best friend throughout high school. We bucked the establishment with our dress and actions, including rejecting the cool kids by openly eschewing drugs and alcohol, and we were a tight little unit. Well, certain cool kids were jealous of us, because we were cooler than them in a kooky way and invulnerable. Since we were pretty impervious to the meanies, they ultimately started a rumor that we were gay. I remember being utterly shocked at the thought, but then I became sort of proud of it and wore my quasi-gayness proudly. It certainly gave me a little taste of the intolerance.

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#800075 - 03/22/04 03:31 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Improviso Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1484
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom-*K:
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bernard:
I think when you have 1st graders going around calling other children "faggots" it is a clear indication that some parents are not capable of doing their job well. [/b]
While I PERSONALLY disagree with the term used by these first graders, as an American I would fight to the death to defend these kids' Freedom of Speech! \:D [/b]
Right you are Tom. I will stand with you to defend your children's freedom of speech, YOUR freedom of speech, MY freedom of speech, and my RIGHT to not listen to ANYONE tell me how I should raise MY children. Mind your own business, thank-you very much. YOU (read that as anyone who thinks they know better than I how my children should be raised) raise your children how you see fit and I shall do the same. I won't pass judgement on you, and I expect the same in return.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

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#800076 - 03/22/04 04:04 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
John Andrew,

Very nice post, I agree with you 100%.

(Don't worry, you will stop shuddering in a few minutes. . .)

\:D

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