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Topic Options
#800167 - 03/23/04 11:11 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
SameKenny Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 116
Loc: So California
Bernard
You are brave to be yourself amid these people.
I admire and respect you for it.

Offering your true self here makes you more of an honorable person than any of these faux-puritans.
Donít let them get to you; their words are only heard by their buddies.
They must huddle together for warmth.
But the truth does not need agreement.

Donít cast all your pearls here.
Keep some for yourself.

Very few contribute so much good to this forum as you do.
_________________________
I think I know.
I know I think.

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#800168 - 03/23/04 11:12 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
A shemale, rvaga?
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#800169 - 03/23/04 11:35 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
netizen Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/02/01
Posts: 1926
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by SameKenny:
Bernard
You are brave to be yourself amid these people.
I admire and respect you for it.

Offering your true self here makes you more of an honorable person than any of these faux-puritans.
Donít let them get to you; their words are only heard by their buddies.
They must huddle together for warmth.
But the truth does not need agreement.

Donít cast all your pearls here.
Keep some for yourself.

Very few contribute so much good to this forum as you do. [/b]
What he said !

And thanks for reminding me of "The Naked Civil Servant". Hmmm I wonder if NetFlix has it?
_________________________
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."-- Theodore Roosevelt

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#800170 - 03/23/04 11:38 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Para Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/23/04
Posts: 5
Loc: Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by Luke's Dad:
The biggest problem with the song is that it implies a superiority to crossdressers over regular folk. that's not teaching tolerance, that's saying "If you want to rule the world, be a crossdresser".

Th other thing is it's not teaching anything about homosexuality, it's about crossdressers. Crossdressing has nothing to do with homo or hetero sexuality. Their are gay crossdressers and straight crossdressers, and they are far in the minority of both groups. Is anybody ever born with a genetic disposition for crossdressing? You'd have a hard time selling me on that one. It is psychological abnormality. This song does nothing to promote tolerance of gays, and if anything will put older heterosexual kids on the defensive. It should put homosexual adults on the defensive as well, as it put's iup the message that homosexuals are crossdressers intent on ruling the world and getting revenge on straights.

So tell me Bernard, is that the message you want to send, I don't think so. You're an intelligent well spoken gentleman. I just think your vision gets a little blurry and you get defensive on issues dealing with sexuality. [/b]
Luke's Dad has an extremely good point. He's said it better then any of the rest of us I believe have, and as for the brawl between Larry and Bernard. They were both wrong on some account and were just being stiff and refusing to accept anything but their own opinions.

Although I usually don't share it publicly, (and even if I were straight, I doubt I'd boast openly about it. Sexuality is a personal mindset, not a supiriority/minority that should be used for claiming to be better then others) being a member of the gay community, I still disagree completely with the song and think Luke's Dad has made an awesome point. Thanks.

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#800171 - 03/23/04 11:39 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
.rvaga* Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 2046
Loc: Portland, Oregon
 Quote:
Ariel:
A shemale, rvaga?
[/b]
Oh no!! My MOTHER IN LAW posts here!!!???


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#800172 - 03/24/04 12:20 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
From Tom*-K:
 Quote:
Like them on not, you know my beliefs. I hold them strongly. I'll fight for them. But I'd never deceive--unless it was in fun.
To hold beliefs is fine, and probably necessary to us humans. To remain willfully ignorant is a sin in my book. I don't begrudge you the right to fight for your beliefs. But when scientific evidence indicates otherwise, isn't it time to revise the beliefs?

 Quote:
I am not Improvisio--I have a good idea of who she is though.
OK then. You do believe s/he is an imposter and I think you owe it to the forum to out her/him. If he or she is not the culprit they can defend themselves. But if we allow this sort of thing to continue, it will become impossible to hold any sort of meaningful discussion at Piano World and I for one will not hang around. It's difficult enough as it is. I will not hesitate to ask Frank to investigate this issue.

Kenny,

Thank you for your kind words and gentle advice. I will heed them. You are brave too.

Netizen,

What I just said.

Para, you said:
 Quote:
They were both wrong on some account and were just being stiff and refusing to accept anything but their own opinions.
With due respect, and no offense intended, I don't think you have been here long enough to appreciate the banter on the opening pages of this thread. Larry has been here for ages (apparently), and I've been here for 2.5 years--there is familiarity with one another's ways.

I also think, that like Luke's Dad, you are taking the skit way too seriously. Have you read this entire thread? Do you know the whole skit, not just the excerpt? Do you know the entire production of "Cootie Shots"?
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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#800173 - 03/24/04 01:12 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
I think Larry is h*rn*y.......This certain theme keeps coming up.......[/b]


Jack, I was *born* h*rn*y. You will just have to be tolerant of that..... just don't decide to put together a program of skits to teach little kids about it.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#800174 - 03/24/04 07:41 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
DT Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 1478
Loc: Illinois
 Quote:
Originally posted by rvaga:
So, improvmiserio might not be a she, but a he that would like to be a she and uses female-like responses. Or, it might really be a he that feels like a she but talks like a he.
Or. . . maybe a she that used to be a he, but pretends to be a he and posts as a she to trick the hes and shes into thinking he/she is either a he or she or neither!

;\) [/b]
L-O-L-A, Lola
Lo-, Lo-, Lo-,Lo-Lola
_________________________
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

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#800175 - 03/24/04 07:47 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
 Quote:
Posted by Bernard: OK then. You do believe s/he is an imposter and I think you owe it to the forum to out her/him. If he or she is not the culprit they can defend themselves.[/b]
Two points: I meant to say s/he not she and if I "out" someone who I "believe" is Improvisio, that would be participating in a witch hunt. I would never do something like that. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You just don't understand how life works do you?

As far as your remark about science goes, fine I have no problem with science. I just don't want crap like "Cootie Shots" within a mile of my kids. I read the whole thing and honestly I don't like the idea in general not just the "high heels" part of it.

They are my kids, I will socialize them the way I choose. If I err on the side of what I feel is in their best interest at the expense of some other members of society--too bad for the other members of society. They have school work and piano lessons and equestrian lessons and golf lessons. That's enough for them to do, to have them start worring about the shenannigans of two percent of the population before high school isn't worth the effort. \:\)

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#800176 - 03/24/04 08:49 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
Okay, Tom, so you're not Improviso. But you are Rudolofo Tierra del Fuego (or some such mouthful) and the ever so briefly appearing, bus socially conscious Bud Struggle (who I was quite smitten by) and yesterday, you claimed to be Chickgrand (who has been strangely absent from the forum for nearly a month.

So, anybody, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me TomK is not Chickgrand. That is a blow I think I could not bear!!

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#800177 - 03/24/04 09:32 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Tom--K Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 5934
Dearest kathy,

I'm not Rudolpho whomever. (who is he by the way--he must be interesting!) Never heard of him. I was Bud for a MOMENT when I changed my email address and locked myself out of my old TomK, I figured (after making a pass or two at apple) I would just be TomK with a different name. I told everybody right away. apple simply HATED it and he's gone.

And I am NOT Chickgrand. Though sitting here dressed my winter white cotton twill trousers that I bought yesterday from Neiman-Marcus and my blue button down shirt (the blue is the color of the April sky in Texas,) with a slight white pinstripe and my floral Gucci tie, I can understand the way his aesthetic sensibilities run.

As I look out over the plethora of colors in my garden and see the foxglove and the honeysuckle and the jasmine in bloom, I can understand the depth of his feelings for color and texture and taste. I can understand him probably better than anyone else on the Forum.

Hope that answers you question.

By the way, are you Improvisio?

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#800178 - 03/24/04 09:56 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
Yeah, right! It's an outlet for my latent conservative tendencies. Nope, sweets, I'm just little ol' me.

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#800179 - 03/24/04 10:05 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
And y'all thought I was nuts over the issue of sockpuppetry...

Well, how do y'all like it now?

In a medium such as this, all we have is an honest effort to be what we are, yet we have no way of proving anything.

That is why honesty is so important, even if you do not agree on the issues.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#800180 - 03/24/04 10:10 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Offering your true self here makes you more of an honorable person than any of these faux-puritans.
Donít let them get to you; their words are only heard by their buddies.
They must huddle together for warmth.
But the truth does not need agreement.
Personally, I don't consider myself faux anything.

And just because you do not agree with many of the viewpoints, does not mean that those viewpoints are not accepted by others. In this particular thread, we are talking about a skit that would not play in almost any school district I have ever known - not if the parents were given the script beforehand, and allowed to comment.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#800181 - 03/24/04 10:12 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
jodi Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 6959
Loc: The Evergreen State (WA)
Tomk is not Chickgrand, I think Chickgrand is on vacation from this place. And I believe that Chickgrand has the guts to post what he thinks under his own handle. I don't really care who the Improvisational dude is. Nor do I particularly care if s/he's outed. That's not our right, nor Franks job, so please don't bug him about it. Improv can swim or sink on his it's own words here just like the rest of us. (and I'm not throwing it any flotation devices either)

Jodi

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#800182 - 03/24/04 10:23 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
Adopting a different alias - and announcing you are doing so, what the limits of the camouflage are and what your reasons are - is one thing.

This is done in a limited fashion for explicit and understandable purposes (whether or not you yourself would have done the same)...

For instance, remember the member who confided using a different identity, that he/she was concerned about a biopsy result?

For an established member, to adopt and use a new name WITHOUT ANNOUNCING THAT IT IS BEING DONE is a whole different kettle of fish.

No, Jolly it is NOT the same as your obsession with Lazy Pianist.

Ariel
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#800183 - 03/24/04 10:43 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
Excuse me Ariel, but I believe I'll stand on the side of honesty, and let you explain to me why people should lie.

This should be interesting...especially in lieu of your recent post about internet honesty....
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#800184 - 03/24/04 11:00 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Ariel Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 3028
Loc: NE
I'm all for telling the truth myself. For one thing, I believe that when you start fudging and twisting and outright lying, you tend to forget what the truth is. It's hard enough to know what we feel and why and who we are, in many ways.

For instance, I think OJ really believes he did NOT kill Nicole. I've read, in fact (and it makes sense) that most murderers do not recall committing the crime. Scary.

But then we have a need to believe we're nice people. After all, there's no such thing as divorcing our own selves (sometimes I've wished I could give myself a good swift kick in the rear, though - but unfortunately, I can't reach \:\( )

And most people DO believe it's wrong to lie. So they start to believe what they've said is actually true.

I'm glad I'm not a saleswoman. (In fact, I got fired from one job in retail for refusing to tell women they looked good in clothes that were not becoming.)

So I tell the truth not just ethically but out of self-defense. Can't afford to get any more confused than I started out, after all! (And as the saying goes, it IS easier to remember).

But adopting a second fake name from what is for most of us, a first fake name - and being clear about it - is a far cry from lying in my book.

It's still quite a mystery to me how you justify calling it such, in fact, Jolly. Where's the lie?

Ariel/Amanda
_________________________
If this is coffee, bring me tea. If this is tea, bring me coffee.
~Abraham Lincoln~

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#800185 - 03/24/04 11:24 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
Hey, Jolly. Is that your real name? I had a 3rd grade teacher named Mrs. Jolly in Marine City, Michigan. She was the best - probably my favorite teacher. She had dark curls and pointy cat glasses. Today, she might remind one of Ms. Frizzle from the Magic School Bus books. She let me tutor (as in giving some extra help) some of the kids that had "cooties." You know, the ones everyone else made fun of because they wore funny shoes and lived in foster homes. It was in that grade that I developed a real empathy for the cootie kids and tried to demonstrate to my peers they they were just like the rest of us by letting them know I wasn't afraid of catching cooties. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Anyway, Mrs. Jolly was a big part of that formative experience. You think you're related?

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#800186 - 03/24/04 11:24 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Rudolofo Tierra del Fuego is a very dear friend to several of us here on the forum. His real name is Radu, and he is a Romanian living in Israel. And yes, he is one interesting dude. He was in the Israeli army, he owns and plays the piano, and has a clever wit. It would take forever to paint a picture of the man using words, so let it suffice that he is not a troll, not a sock puppet, but a highly valued old friend to many of us who have long posted on usenet. If you took anything he wrote as a dig, or "trollish", it was simply because you didn't understand him the way those of us who know him do. We even went through a phase where we would yell "I hate you" to each other, having established through a long string of posts that we sometimes say one thing and mean another, so.... you get the picture.

He is a dear man, a valued friend to many here, and one we worry about quite often because of where he lives.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#800187 - 03/24/04 11:28 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
A lie is nothing but an intentional act of deception.

Yes, most of us have handles on this board (or any other, for that matter), but that is an issue of privacy, and one of safety. Kenny has pointed out his distaste of the practice, but I have no problem with it. Just because one plays the piano, does not mean they don't do a bit of serial killing in their spare time. ;\)

The playful temporary taking of a second handle does not overtly worry me, either. Sure, i'm not wild about it, but it is usually done in fun, and rapidly disclosed.

In the case of LP, or anyone else, who will deliberately change names, and keep it that way, is akin to a ship sailing under false colors. I can look back over Ariel's posts, or Larry's, or whomever's, and I can get a sense of that person's integrity, and honesty. I can put faith in what they say, whether i agree with it, or not.

Sockpuppetry, on the other hand, can have many detrimental effects. It can be used to create the illusion of agreement. It can be used to create a straw man that can easily be torn down by its' creator. It can be used to say hurtful, or spiteful things that cannot be traced to the originator. And yes, I believe it shows a fundamental lack of honesty on the part of the creator. One should be confident enough in one's beliefs to stand on your own two hind legs, and defend them.

I know this is not a courtroom, or a legal proceding, but imagine if you will a court where the accuser never has to confront the accused, where evidence does not matter, and no-one is responsible for their actions, or what they say.

This medium has enough anarchy for me, without adding to the confusion.
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#800188 - 03/24/04 11:35 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Originally posted by Larry:
Rudolofo Tierra del Fuego is a very dear friend to several of us here on the forum. His real name is Radu, and he is a Romanian living in Israel. And yes, he is one interesting dude. He was in the Israeli army, he owns and plays the piano, and has a clever wit. It would take forever to paint a picture of the man using words, so let it suffice that he is not a troll, not a sock puppet, but a highly valued old friend to many of us who have long posted on usenet. If you took anything he wrote as a dig, or "trollish", it was simply because you didn't understand him the way those of us who know him do. We even went through a phase where we would yell "I hate you" to each other, having established through a long string of posts that we sometimes say one thing and mean another, so.... you get the picture.

He is a dear man, a valued friend to many here, and one we worry about quite often because of where he lives. [/b]
Correction, his name is Portamento which sounds Latino to me, not Romanian. And why does he say he lives in Tierra del Fuego? Larry, I think your full of it.

A post from Rodolopho

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#800189 - 03/24/04 11:45 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14036
Loc: Louisiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by kathyk:
Hey, Jolly. Is that your real name? I had a 3rd grade teacher named Mrs. Jolly in Marine City, Michigan. She was the best - probably my favorite teacher. She had dark curls and pointy cat glasses. Today, she might remind one of Ms. Frizzle from the Magic School Bus books. She let me tutor (as in giving some extra help) some of the kids that had "cooties." You know, the ones everyone else made fun of because they wore funny shoes and lived in foster homes. It was in that grade that I developed a real empathy for the cootie kids and tried to demonstrate to my peers they they were just like the rest of us by letting them know I wasn't afraid of catching cooties. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Anyway, Mrs. Jolly was a big part of that formative experience. You think you're related? [/b]
If you go back far enough.

The name is old, and probably originated in France, but the original settlers in America would have called themselves English.

The original Heraldry featured an arm holding a sword, and the Latin words meaning "as long as I can".

Kinda explains my personality, doesn't it? ;\)
_________________________
www.coffee-room.com

Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#800190 - 03/24/04 11:48 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Larry Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 9217
Loc: Deep in Cherokee Country
Well, we've seen the results of your thinking before......

I copied his "handle" from one of your posts. I don't pay any attention to the names he comes up with. He often switches names, but lets everyone know its him. It's part of his personality. The name is a made up name, Kathy. Radu is his real name. And you can expect to see several others pile on during the day who will tell you the one who is full of it is you - that they know Radu very well. Matt, Dwain, Jolly, DT, Chris, Jodi, they all know Radu.
_________________________
Life isn't measured by the breaths you take. Life is measured by the things that left you breathless

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#800191 - 03/24/04 11:53 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
Okay. I really thought he was TomK, but he says no and you say no. I guess I give TomK way too much credit for being clever. \:\(

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#800192 - 03/24/04 11:59 AM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
gryphon Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 11678
Loc: Okemos, MI
 Quote:
Originally posted by Tom-*K:
They have...golf lessons.[/b]
You monster.
_________________________
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
MSU - the university of Michigan!
Wheels

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#800193 - 03/24/04 12:08 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
jodi Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 6959
Loc: The Evergreen State (WA)
Radu doesn't post much here, but he is (or was) a big part of rmmp. Larry's telling the truth, kathy. And Tomk really is Tomk just like he says. His last name starts with a K.

I have no idea who Iprov is, but if he's a second personality to someone we know, it is very much the same as what LP admitted to doing - posting under another name in the coffee room so they could say what they really thought about the more controversial matters, which, for some personal or professional reason they are uncomfortable posting under their "real" or "other" handle.

You want to know what I think? Well, guess what, you're going to hear it anyway. If you can't say it online to the whole world under your real identity, you probably shouldn't be saying it at all.

\:\) Jodi

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#800194 - 03/24/04 12:14 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kathyk Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 6971
Loc: Maine
I agree Jodi. And as to Radu, or Rodolpho, I wish he'd post her more. From the little I saw, he was rather entertaining.

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#800195 - 03/24/04 12:39 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
kenny Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 7051
 Quote:
Originally posted by jodi:


You want to know what I think? Well, guess what, you're going to hear it anyway. If you can't say it online to the whole world under your real identity, you probably shouldn't be saying it at all.

\:\) Jodi [/b]
Amen Sister!
Real people have more credibility than fake ones.

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#800196 - 03/24/04 12:55 PM Re: Has your K-6 grade kid had cootie shots yet?
Bernard Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 3857
Loc: North Groton, NH
Tom*-K:

 Quote:
As far as your remark about science goes, fine I have no problem with science. I just don't want crap like "Cootie Shots" within a mile of my kids. I read the whole thing and honestly I don't like the idea in general not just the "high heels" part of it.

They are my kids, I will socialize them the way I choose. If I err on the side of what I feel is in their best interest at the expense of some other members of society--too bad for the other members of society. They have school work and piano lessons and equestrian lessons and golf lessons. That's enough for them to do, to have them start worring about the shenannigans of two percent of the population before high school isn't worth the effort.
Tom*-K, I think that's fine (except for the 2% part, it's much higher than that.) I do think parents op-out signatures should be honored. What I objected to was the tone which Larry created in his post linking "Cootie Shots" with gay marriage and everything else homosexual by insuating there was an agenda of indoctrination behind "Cootie Shots". My whole point throughout this whole thread has been that the agenda behind "Cootie Shots" is acceptance and tolerance. There are whole skits devoted to religion (including Catholicism); it is not a biased work. It tries to illuminate the many ways in which people are different. That's all.
_________________________
"Hunger for growth will come to you in the form of a problem." -- unknown

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