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This thread has been absolutely amazing, given the original theme of "tolerance". Grown adults reduced to bickering, naming calling childen.

Before anyone teaches my children about tolerance, practice what you preach. This thread started as an interesting conversation on what was acceptable to be teaching small children in schools and quite quickly degraded to a witch hunt. I would like to personally apologize to Larry for that occurring. I never intended to hijack his thread.

Excuse my ignorance of proper etiquette here. I assumed when Bernard reduced himself to insulting Larry with "you pathetic little twerp" or "Idiot...You're a pathetic little man", that the gloves were officially off in the conversation.

How dare I, a newbie, to question Bernard's combative tactics. I didn't see anyone call him on the carpet for that. I was very direct in expressing a very strong feeling I have on the subject. I did not flower it, dilute it, or convey the message in a politically correct way.

I admitted earlier in this thread to Jodi, that she conveyed the thought in a much more elegant way than I. Castrate me for style, not content.

It was actually Gryphon who planted the seed with his comment "Bernard, for what it's worth, I don't think you were attacked by a complete stranger. But I could be wrong." Bernard builds on the myth with "Thirdly, what I now consider the most probable, Improviso is a sock puppet. If that is the case, he/she, as someone said earlier, is a coward." And KathyK absolutely is convinced she knows the truth when she says "Why does everyone keep saying "welcome to the forum" when we know that Improviso is no newcomer to the forum? I think I know who."

For the record, Gryphon later got it right when he said "If Improviso is a sockpuppet, then I agree with you that that is wrong, even though Improviso may be a sweet woman who doesn't want to be identified as someone who thinks the homosexual lifestyle is utterly disgusting. On the other hand, maybe he's a long time reader, first-time poster."

To you Gryphon, I say "on the other hand, you are wise beyond your years."

I am (was) a long time reader and first time poster. I have never posted here before under any other name. Before I could say such, the witch hunt began. Intrigued, I sat back to see where this would go. Why? I was called a "troll" by Elana and told to "bugger off" by Ariel. I questioned the labeling and was told by Phlebas that I was "just a jerk, and an overly defensive one." OK I reasoned. I'll be a little more "thick-skinned" in the future. No need to rebutt every arrow slung my way.

In the end, I too was puzzled by Bernard's outburst and leaving. Where the heck did that come from. But I would bet that Bernard is still reading this thread. To you Bernard I say, your battle will be long and mostly uphill, but you will never prevail if you quit. I'll stand in your way because I hold my belief just as strongly as you hold yours. That's the reality of the times we live in.

Tolerance? A pretty hard concept to grasp even as adults, huh? Imagine how tough that is for our kids.

Teach tolerance to parents. The kids primary concern is they just want to fit in.

Well said Jodi. About a year ago there was similar suspicion that Tommy was someone else. That was before I knew and respected him. I spent alot of time trying to prove that he was the other person but all I proved was just the opposite...that he is the one and only.

nothin worse than being falsely accused.

Well, Apple, I guess that's my cue. If I'm wrong, then I take it back. What really bugs me is that we'll probably never know, because Improp, whoever he is, is not only a mean trouble maker, but also a coward. And, I have no doubt whatsoever that he has been with us AND posting for a good long while.

To TomK, if I am wrong, I apologize for the accusation. I don't apologize for expressing my feelings about how mean you have been to certain people here in past, including your recent outrageous threat.

I do apologize to Benedict, Nunatax, and others who have been pilloried here in the past for not having stood up more strongly and publicy in their support especially against those who seem to do it with impugnity because of their charm, wit and/or apparent status here.

I do apologize to Benedict, Nunatax, and others who have been pilloried here in the past for not having stood up more strongly and publicy in their support especially against those who seem to do it with impugnity because of their charm, wit and/or apparent status here.


Oh, stuff it, Kathy. I get tired of people bringing things up after the fact and taking it all out of context in order to place blame. When it's someone *you* like, you conveniently forget everything said before the part you like to drag out and hammer people over the head with. Nunatax wasn't an innocent player in that debate. He is now a most enjoyable poster, and the chip on his shoulder is gone. Benedict was damn near close to being a troll at times. So go save some other whale.

apple: Except being falsely accused of falsely accusing.

that's just a symptom of "nowayamiwrongitis".

Here, here!

Aye, Aye Sir, Cap'n Ahab!

Ariel, you are too much!

So sorry Doc, I had to read more of this really very incredible thread: managed to get up to page 15 and actually accumulated 25 pages of quotes so far, oh dear! And it’s now nearly 2 am again and I can’t go on to Mahlerian lengths. But alas you’ve provided me something I can fairly succinctly answer, and move this thread back to the top once more...

I am not decided on whether homosexuality is innate or not. Like you, I suspect that it IS innate, even if no physical proof yet exists, and NOTHING short of physical proof would satisfy me completely on this matter. But my point was that if homosexuality is innate then perhaps other less desirable human behavior patterns are as well, some of which may be far less socially redeemable than even homophobia, the existence of which this thread has amply convinced me. I am, you see, at bottom, deeply skeptical about most things. We know so little. We do not know what instinct is, what constitutes the physiological basis of human drives, etc. although I think we will know more in 20 years than we know now. I should think studies in human endocrinology, especially in developmental stages, will hold promise of showing us some of what is now only to be guessed at. I hope that clears things up a bit.

I can hear the hackles now, “Please spare us the 25 pages of quotes!”

Yes, with honest admonitions of goodwill and civility toward all, may I bid you all a fond good night until we chance to cross mental swords again on another such weighty topic as this.

Tomorrow night, I might get through the last five, or six, or seven pages. For some of us there is torture, for others there’s the coffee room!

David, you really are one of my favorites.

Jodi

David,

This reminds me of a wonderful Russell Baker essay in which he describes his efforts to read Proust in terms of an expedition to climb Mt. Everest.

Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it.
Russell Baker

Thanks David. :rolleyes: This is a thread which many (at least I for one) would gladly have seen sink into archival oblivion.