Piano World Home Page Forums Restricted and Archives The Coffee Room Can The American Image Get Worse?

Image? Who cares.

If the rest of the world can’t figure out how to be as well off as America after they’ve all been given pretty good lessons, then they deserve our pity and nothing more and I do mean NOTHING more. We buy from them, we sell to them, no more money or anything else that doesn’t directly benefit us.

The countries that figured it out used to be our enemies; Japan and Germany, one of our neighbors, Canada, has most of it, almost, except the biggest government per capita on the planet. Talk about partitioning Iraq? How about admitting that a multi-lingual, multi-cultural country doesn’t really work that well and let Quebec loose and become part of France. You all know what would happen eventually; the whole rest of the place would apply for admission to the Grand Republic to their south.

Ah, Switzerland, the multi-lingual, multi-cultural republic par excellence! Why do they work? Because they figured out a long time ago how to prosper from the countries around them, remain safe by having a very good army, while everyone else went to war with inferior armies. Canada aint Switzerland.

Mexico? They’ve been our neighbor for a very long time. Have they learned anything? Not really. If they had there’d be far fewer Mexicans going north. And guess what? A lot of them have assimilated to the point where they never want to go back to Mexico. Guess who has learned a lot from us down in South America; Chile. They thank us for getting rid of their commie president and in some quarters Pinochet is a hero. They have a STRONG MIDDLE CLASS which likes living well and isn’t GUILTY about it.

What’s the saying? Living well is its own revenge?

God, I’m so glad I’m no longer a Liberal. How do they live with their misery? Can they never feel HAPPY about anything GOOD they managed to accomplish BY THEIR OWN EFFORTS?

Oh and I think everyone is going to be surprised by the election results too. We might have quite a few people on here willing to commit suicide or run off to some foreign country; Canada probably. Canada, get ready! Sorry Renauda. Don’t know what you’ll do. After November the next batch of disgruntled American lefties are going to migrate your way. What will you do? They’ll be OH SO concerned with their IMAGE too. (Grief!)

David, I think you are talking about me.
I feel very happy and good about the wonderful life I have worked for and have been blessed with, - much as a result of my own effort.
I pulled myself up out of a family of tragedy (I won't go into that now).
Personally, in my own life, I have no misery.

My liberal heart bleeds for those who, unlike you and I, were not smart enough to get themselves born in America.

"those who, unlike you and I, were not smart enough to get themselves born in America."

"Guess who has learned a lot from us down in South America; Chile. They thank us for getting rid of their commie president and in some quarters Pinochet is a hero."

my dear friend,if getting read of an elected(..even commi..)president and replacing it with a military dictator is Your way to see the benefits of a free world.....I think I can start to worry for myself.....

question:
what kind of mind can someone have to think that way?

JEFFREY &DAVID?HOW DO YOU DARE?

I had a grandfather that I will never know were is buried, I had a grandmother died of heart-attack at 65 working, I had another grandmother still working at 87, I had a mother starting to work at 17,pensioned at 61,died few years latter, I use to get two pound of oranges once an year (at X-mass), all my parents managed to give me after a lifetime work was my education, if I wanted to go somewhere in vacations for a week I had to work 4 before, I’ve worked for 10 years 16 hours a day, six, sometimes seven days a week, my wife was teaching twelve hours a day, six days a week, and my kid sow a color TV at 6,I was happy he’s not hungry and all that because I wasn’t smart enough to get born in another place. Or maybe all of us didn’t work hard enough?

I’ve seen doctors in philosophy working as a carpenter in weekends, I’ve seen professors in the night with the garbage truck, and I’ve seen engineers loading trains in their free time. Maybe they didn’t work hard enough?

Or maybe we didn’t do enough to have better society? It didn’t cross my mind to tell it to the 22 years old girl shooted in the head because she spoke what she believed when I took her to morgue. How stupid I was!

Well, now that I see the light, I think the best think I can do is to make a collect to sent both of You some money so You can go to Russia to tell those guys that the 20 millions killed by Lenin & Stalin didn’t try enough, or in Poland to explain them that his grandfather killed by the nazis together with the other grandfather killed by the commi’s didn’t try enough, or in Hungary in 56, or in Czechoslovakia in 68 they didn’t try enough, or in Cambodia the millions didn’t try enough against the Khmers, or in Iraq the gazed Kurds and the Shiites and the Sunnites didn’t try enough against Saddam, or to explain to those Chileans mothers that it doesn’t matter they will never know when & where their daughters and sons where killed. It’s a good thing for the middle-classes.

Why don’t you take each other’s hand and go to Sudan or Congo to explain them they don’t try enough? Don’t forget to tell them that they can do as well as you if they try enough, and the fact they have no Golden Visa does not matter. Anyway, they cannot use it in the dessert!

Or if You go in India to tell the 10 years old kids making grave stones for German graveyards to pay the medicines for their little brother for some 40 years from now on that they don’t try enough?

Or if you go to South-Asia to tell them that their wages has nothing to do with the fact that for you is cheaper to buy a new T-shirt than to wash it? In fact, they don’t try enough.

Really, You have no shame?

I don’t understand myself! I am reading (and answering!) to some stupid overfeed-full-of them-selves-smart-a$$holes superior to everybody by the place of birth!

Thank You for Your lesson. We really need it!

Sorry I just had to point this one out. David, you have no idea what you're talking about. One thing Canadians have quite clear is that they have it much better than the US. Not only do we have the "American way of life" but hey we even get universal healthcare, cheaper medicines, better schools and much more. The last thing on a Canadian's mind is to want to be a part of the US. That is such a typical ego-centric comment from Americans who have no clue.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com

Lucian - I have no idea what I posted that caused your post and your outburst. I do not agree with the way that David chose to express his thoughts. Please do not lump me in with him. My claim was not that you did not work hard. My claim was that certain social systems (in say, Japan, Canada, Europe, and the US) work better than other social systems (in say, Syria, the Sudan or Zaire). The reason the US (and Japan and Europe) are better off is not due to imperialism, or taking things from Yemen and the Sudan, but due to the nature of the culture in each place.

Why is Japan so successful? Not because of natural rescources or imperialism (imperialism hurt them quite a bit, not helped them). It is due to their hard work and cultural values, not due to the fact that they took their success from others. Again, I have no idea how your outburst against me is a response to this view. Why is the US (and Europe, and Japan) successful? Is it imperialism? Luck? Natural rescources? Please explain and don't go off topic.

Really?! Better schools? I know we at least have better medical schools here and subsequently the best doctors in the world.

David, you have no idea what you're talking about. One thing Canadians have quite clear is that they have it much better than the US. Not only do we have the "American way of life" but hey we even get universal healthcare, cheaper medicines, better schools and much more. The last thing on a Canadian's mind is to want to be a part of the US. That is such a typical ego-centric comment from Americans who have no clue.

I think the article below will shed a little more light on things, Elena. You have a bit of a skewed view of this yourself, it would seem...


Canadian health care not cure-all

Select statements:

"Canadians may not want America’s health care system, but that doesn’t mean their single-payer model is ideal, a Canadian health care expert told about 140 people at a health care conference here Wednesday.

Canada’s system has serious flaws and, like the U.S. health care system, doesn’t place high in comparison to other industrialized societies. Canada is ranked 30th and the United States 38th by the World Health Organization, said Brian Lee Crowley, president of the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies in Halifax, Nova Scotia."

"The system as it is now organized (Canada's) is not sustainable, he (Crowley) said. He said he reads national studies that indicate Canadians want to maintain existing services without increasing taxes and without reducing care provided to the poor."

“The Canadian health care system is a black hole into which we can seemingly pour endless amounts of money,” he said.

This is the biggest flaw I see in government controlled health care:

"Crowley complains that since the government runs the whole system, it is difficult for individuals to have any clout in demanding that they be seen promptly or treated courteously.

He gave the example of a business partner who had left work for an appointment that ran four hours late. She had parked in a two-hour limit spot but had no idea when she would be seen or even if she could go out to move her car without losing her spot in line.

When she asked when she could expect to be seen after her four-hour wait a receptionist said, “You are talking as if you are some sort of customer,” Crowley recounted.

“You are totally disempowered,” he said. No one’s well-being in the Canadian health care [arena] is dependent on people being well-treated, he added.

Now, as to your cheaper drugs:

"Crowley was asked about the increase in Americans buying prescription drugs in Canada, where retail prices are lower through government regulation. He said drugs are cheaper in Canada in part because Canadians are somewhat poorer on average than Americans. He believes Canadians are getting a free ride by getting drugs whose development is funded largely by the markup in the United States.

With that, we see the weakness of socialism. Unsustainable social programs that suck off capitalism. Government workers who don't *have* to care whether you like the service you're getting or not.

I don't call this as being superior to US health care at all.

Larrey:

Canada > U.S.

Jeffrey,
there is never one single cause.The world would be a much better place and problems so easy to solve.

For a people to get successful it had to have the spirit,the culture,the history,the geographical/natural/climatic means/situation and the luck.

You keep comparing apples with peaches.
Don't compare Japan with Zaire.

Compare Western Europe with Eastern Europe if You want.Same culture,same history until 1945.Was their choice to change political system?

Compare North to South Coreea:who choose ?

Read the (let say) last 3 centuries history of Zaire,if You want: how many chances had they to build a society by themselves?There are so much countries that didn't had the chance to even try in the past 3-4 centuries.

You don't like to talk about imperialism.I'm asking myself : what should I call replacing an elected president with a military dictator?(and don't answer me with the commie thing: I don't see any difference to be killed for You convictions by a commie or a general)

Have You ever give a thought that passing successfully from a dictatorial to a democratic system was successful in the last century only in the countries that had no "help" from outside?

And with this I'm coming somehow to the topic.

It seem to me that is not "politically correct" now a days to talk about the little private reunion at Yalta,some 60 years ago,where Roosevelt,Churchill and Stalin had a sort of "gentlemen agreement" on the "influence spheres".

We don't like to think and talk about so many little conflicts between right and left militia,always one with kalashnikof's and the other with M 16's.(little conflicts that nicely grew up to genocide here and there)

We forget that the third world is full of little conflicts started decades ago,and supported more or less discreet by the former two blocks.

And when I see polls in the East Europe,saying that 70-80-90 % of population want to go with NATO,that Poles,Bulgarians,Ucrainens and other go with America in Iraq, after waiting decades a sign that US is ready to support them to get read of commies,after learning that US had an agreement not to go in it long time ago,I ask You:

do You realize the capital of image America had and still has ?
Do You realize how much it meant for more than half of the world?
Do You realize that when You are meaning so much (and willingly You reinforce it) You have no right to fail or make mistakes?

With stupid decisions taken in the haste,with words troughn whiteout reflection You are not maculating America's image,You are destroying the image of an universal ideal.

I was talking about primary education, Johnny. Everyone knows the US has the best universities, (and the cutest doctors ) but elementary school thru highschool public education in the USA leaves a lot to be desired.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com

Larry,

There are flaws to every system and Canada has its share of problems it needs to affront and soon, but you will find few Canadians willing to trade in their health care system over the United States'. I have been to Canadian hospitals where the service was not only immediate and friendly but also something many americans cannot phathom: free.

Regarding the drugs, why should anyone -Canadians, Americans, or anyone else- have to shell out any extra money just so one single pharmaceutical company can spend $200 million on marketing just one of their drugs? And there are hundreds more like this. The Europeans put price caps on their drugs, I'm not sure if the Canadians do as well, but one thing is for sure, most of that extra money you're paying isn't going into R&D. Drugs don't need to be marketed on television and on billboards all over the country, they should be targeted at the doctors who do the prescribing through their hospitals and clinics, not at hypocondriac consumers who want a pill for all that ails them.

Canada *is* poorer, but believe it or not you see a lot more "joie de vivre" there than I ever saw here. Talk to any Canadian, you won't find any of the US envy you flatter yourselves with.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com

Canada *is* poorer, but believe it or not you see a lot more "joie de vivre" there than I ever saw here. Talk to any Canadian, you won't find any of the US envy you flatter yourselves with.

I don't flatter myself with *anything* regarding Canada, because I think Canada's lifestyle is just fine. But I *do* think the guy in the article has the necessary credentials to make statements regarding Canada's health system, and what he has to say sounds entirely credible to me, rather than anecdotal or opinions stated as fact. There will always be exceptions to every rule, but by and large I see socialized health care as becoming much like the power board - "we're the utility company - we don't *have* to care". His reasoning behind the price discrepancies of medicines makes a lot of sense to me as well.

Larry,

My experiences in US hospitals and also reading about the US healthcare system is that they don't give a damn here either. So the problem is not exclusively the socialization of medicine.

Elena
http://www.pianofourhands.com

Lucian - I still don't see why you think you are posting anyting that contradicts what I have said. 2 examples: "Compare Western Europe with Eastern Europe if You want.Same culture,same history until 1945.Was their choice to change political system?" You also reference North and South Korea. Both make my point.

South Korea historically was slightly more properous than North Korea, due to better agricultural land. But the difference today can be explained totally by the different economic systems in place. Thanks heavens US military might defended South K from China supported North Korea's invasion.

Also, while East Germany was slightly less well off than West Germany historically, the poverty of the East, is due to their social system. Pointing out that one needs an open, dynamic social system that rewards innovation and hard work, is just my point. (It also supports the point that US military force, has often resulted in the creation or preservation of a better social system.)

Anyway, I can't for the life of me see why you think your post contradicts mine. You seem to agree with me. If the people of North Korea are to have a decent life - the gov't of North Korea must end. Simple. Now you propose how to do it.

I see you've been getting some counseling.



just teasing...

I agree we (mainly I )have some communicating difficulties.
"If other cultures (not just individuals) would work hard at creating a successful economy"
I'm not sure I understand.For me individuals are working (hard or not at all....).I don't see how culture or social/economic/politic system can work hard.

On the other hand,You should read what I wright as a whole: it was also about social/political systems imposed from outside,it was also about not denying the existence of imperialism,a.so.,a.s.o.

I fact You are referring at only two examples I gave.

"Now you propose how to do it".

I can tell You,if I had a real clue,I would not be tuning pianos.All I can do is changing some thoughts.

But I have some (almost) certitudes:

changing a system from outside,imposing another will never work as long as those concerned are not prepared for the change (that's why Germany & Japan after WWII worked, and Iraq will not).

denying mistakes we've made,not speaking about, is risky: those who forget had all the chances to do it again.

as is risky not to accept that the injustice ruling in the world has to do a little, just a little-little with us ,too.....

and when I say risky,I think at me and You.
We might pay very hard a little mistake

we're of topic again,& it start getting personal again,wouldn't You say? :p

All I know is what I've experienced. When I had my cancer surgery, I was treated like a king from the moment I set foot in the hospital until the moment I checked out. Everyone was courteous, everyone was highly skilled at what they did, and not one need went unattended. When I had to go for outpatient tests afterwards, I met with the same thing. When I had to sit there in one of those hospital gowns in an icecold room, they kept me supplied with nice, toasty warm blankets that had been heated in a blanket warmer. All the pillows I wanted. If I had to wait, they'd bring me a stack of magazines to read. My radiation treatments were the same way - the staff was wonderful, the facilities were state of the art, the doctors were superb, and not one stone went unturned in my treatment. I had the first surgery in Atlanta at Emory, the followup and radiation treatments in Knoxville Tn, and the second surgery in Knoxville, so it wasn't a case where one particular hospital was outstanding. All total, I was in 3 hospitals, and 2 clinics, and every one of them were excellent.