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Kathy, you still don't seem to get the point. Sure there is plenty of research being conducted on the effects of abortions on a woman's health. But how much of that information is getting to the woman who goes for the abortion? Probably, NONE, regarding the long-term complications. JA, you also are missing the point. Sure, the acute complications of an abortion are discussed in detail to every patient who goes for an abortion, including "possibly death" as a compication. But that is not the point.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in.
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Right Johnny...My gynecologist was almost crying the last time I saw him. I had just delivered my healthy Klara at age 43.. He was off to perform a hysterectomy on a 13 year old, her future once unblemished before her, who because of a botched abortion performed at the Planned Parenthood, somehow suffered a huge infection. Her parents were unaware she had had an abortion. Had they known and were able to lend parental supervision to this equation a simple antibiotic could have prevented a life of sterility.
I know there are are tons of personal examples on both sides of the issue. I am stressing that information, research, monitoring, is important. To assert otherwise is el stupido.
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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Originally posted by johnmoonlight: Kathy, you still don't seem to get the point. Sure there is plenty of research being conducted on the effects of abortions on a woman's health. But how much of that information is getting to the woman who goes for the abortion? Probably, NONE, regarding the long-term complications. JA, you also are missing the point. Sure, the acute complications of an abortion are discussed in detail to every patient who goes for an abortion, including "possibly death" as a compication. But that is not the point. Excellent Johnny, And just add into the mix a scared 15 year old girl that, by law, doesn't have to notify her parents of what she is doing and you have a taste of what kathy k's "America" is all about.
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america - america the land we know and love what we choose determines what we lose from the God we shun above.
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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katie wrote: This being said, I believe yes, any well designed studies that come to identify probable or actual risks associated with breast cancer in patients experiencing abortion (on demand, medically necessary, whatever), are likely important. This is what I think is the crux of the matter, not the politics. We can't treat, what we don't know.
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Originally posted by apple: My gynecologist was almost crying the last time I saw him. He was off to perform a hysterectomy on a 13 year old, who because of a botched abortion performed at the Planned Parenthood, somehow suffered a huge infection. Her parents were unaware she had had an abortion. another load of b.s. apple, where exactly do you hear this stuff? from a bunch of radical anti-abortion activists? it is fiction. i know people who have accompanied friends to these clinics and their experiences were nothing like what you describe.
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to." MSU - the university of Michigan! Wheels
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america - america the land we know and love
what we choose determines what we lose from the God we shun above.
Beautiful.
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Originally posted by johnmoonlight: Originally posted by piqué: [b] thank you, doctor, for that load of b.s. women get pregnant all the time and then miscarry, often without even knowing it. from what you have written, they would therefore be at greater risk for breast cancer. Guess what, know-it-all, miscarriages DO increase your chance of breast cancer...for the same exact reason as abortions. [/b]that was EXACTLY my point! if abortions increase cancer risk, it therefore follows that miscarriages must also increase cancer risk. my point is that when you tell someone that if they get an abortion it might increase cancer risk, you are scaring them with information that is completely out of context. that is highly irresponsible. putting it in context would be to say that miscarriages, including the ones we're not even aware of, also increase cancer risk. AND to also include the fact that full term pregnancy and delivery are far more risky to the woman's health than an abortion. and then, to give it even greater context, once you point out that if they had early menarche or didn't breast feed, or had their children after a certain age, they are also at increased risk, well, then, you may as well just skip the whole subject, because obviously some choices in life result in a slightly elevated risk of breast cancer, but you can't control everything that happens to you in life. and compared with the consequences of carrying the pregnancy to term, those risks look pretty insignificant. you are recommending that women be given one-sided information. not for the first time, i really have to question your medical credentials and judgment.
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Originally posted by apple: all aborted females are damaged by abortion. Trite or not, probably the best point made on this thread. Kudos!
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Originally posted by DT: This is an opinion forum. Please quit trying to cloud the issue by presenting facts and expert testimony when feelings and personal conviction are the rules for this topic.
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" AND to also include the fact that full term pregnancy and delivery are far more risky to the woman's health than an abortion."
Pique, you need to stop making medical claims with absolutely no basis for your statements. Where did you find this little tid bit? Are you really a journalist? I don't think so. So let me see if I have this right...You feel that since miscarriages increase the risk of breast cancer, that by telling a woman, who is contemplating an abortion, that she is also at increased risk for breast cancer, I am somehow misinforming her?? This is tantamount to me "misinforming" an IV drug abuser about his increased chance of developing enocarditis because a person with cardiac valvular problems shares the same exact risk. Your argument is so weak that I have to question your journalistic credentials.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in.
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Teenagers, reside developmentally, in the world of "here & now", regardless of how mature many seem. In my mind it seems a bit foolish to discuss "possible" breast cancer risks with teenagers whether they are undergoing abortion, or antibiotic therapy for acne (remember this thread .... I still need to review the study .... & thus may withdraw this comment) b/c there are much more relevant (read: 'proven' or heavily 'researched') risks to discuss. I won't debate whether teenagers should require parental consent for abortion on demand ..... but will suggest that health professionals generally are quite careful how they present ALL the information to those seeking abortions ..... and patients who can be quite stressed when meeting with health professionals (e.g. the young, uneducated, non-English speaking, emotionally labile, etc.) often can and do forget, or misinterpret some of the information that is presented to them, despite the often CONSIDERABLE efforts of health professionals providing the information. Hence, I believe that any person undergoing an abortion or other stressful procedure needs to bring an educated/objective/mature ally with them when speaking with the medical folk so that IMPORTANT information can be reinforced/re-iterated/re-interpreted later. I think it is utterly sad that the teenager that Apple was referring to didn't understand/ignored what was likely explained to her as "post-procedure care" and "signs & symptoms" of infection post-abortion. Her life may likely be deeply affected b/c of this & she may possibly misinterpret her need of the hysterectomy as well, stating it was due to a "botched abortion" .....
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Originally posted by piqué: you are recommending that women be given one-sided information. not for the first time, i really have to question your medical credentials and judgment. ????
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few
love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)
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Originally posted by piqué: Guess what, know-it-all, miscarriages DO increase your chance of breast cancer...for the same exact reason as abortions. [/qb] that was EXACTLY my point! if abortions increase cancer risk, it therefore follows that miscarriages must also increase cancer risk. my point is that when you tell someone that if they get an abortion it might increase cancer risk, you are scaring them with information that is completely out of context. that is highly irresponsible. . [/QB][/QUOTE] How is this "out of context"? "irresponsible"? Pique, you throw power words out there but with such a lame argument to follow. I think if you were my patient, I would fire you.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in.
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Originally posted by johnmoonlight: [QUOTE]
my point is that when you tell someone that if they get an abortion it might increase cancer risk, you are scaring them with information that is completely out of context. that is highly irresponsible. My gosh, Dr. John & I agree on something? .... except he said it quite succinctly.
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That was a pique comment from the last page, not Dr. John's.
"If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to." MSU - the university of Michigan! Wheels
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Nope, sorry Katie, but that is Pique's statement above. I would never want to be connected to such a myopic statement.
While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in.
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superfluous comment deleted
Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as heck...
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Well, oops .... it was myopic (on my part) ..... and I've put my glasses on now .... I agree with pique & will leave it at that. I'm just not smart enough to participate in this discussion ..... and will depart for the Pianists Corner. Bye, Bye for now.
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you are recommending that women be given one-sided information. not for the first time, i really have to question your medical credentials and judgment. Idiot.
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