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What can you add?

PROS
- Less expensive than controlling the humidity of the whole room, both in the cost of the equipment and in electricity
- Requires very little work, only one minute every week or two, then pad changes every 6-months
- Piano stays in tune longer because the wood soundboard is not shrinking and swelling with humidity changes
- Can help prevent soundboard cracks and compression ridges
- Piano will stay in newer condition longer because every glue joint in the piano will last longer since it is not expanding and contracting with humidity fluctuations
- Strings, tuning pins and all metal parts in action less likely to corrode and rust
- The voicing of the hammers remains more consistent since the hammer’s felt’s humidity is more stable
- Piano will sound newer longer since strings are not rusting and corroding
- Action cloth, felt and leather parts less likely to mildew or dry out
- Feel of action will be more consistent since the cloth, wood and felt is not expanding and contracting with humidity variations
- Protects and preserves the piano’s value longer
- It is silent, no fans or moving parts
- Has protection circuitry built in that shuts the system off if the water tank is allowed to go dry – if this happens your piano will not be protected from humidity swings but the heater bars will not cook and damage the soundboard, which was a complaint of their older systems.
- Peace of mind when humidity fluctuates inside house.
- Greater marital happiness because you don't have to fight with your spouse over keeping the windows shut "so it won't hurt the piano."
- Will add to marketability of your piano should you decide to sell.

CONS

- Water must be checked/added weekly as needed
- Operator must follow directions and never add too much water
- Dammpchaser additive must be added to water according to directions
- You must buy new pads and additive directly from dammpchaser company
- Electricity cost (equivalent to about a 50 watt light bulb)
- Cord may be accidentally unplugged or tripped on
- Person filling tank may spill water into piano - This is NOT covered under warranty
- Pads must be replaced every 6 months
- Mineral deposit build up on the two electrodes of the humidifying heater bar must be cleaned off with a green scotchbrite pad when changing pads
- While the water tank is designed to minimize this and there is a plastic panel between the water tank and the soundboard, in theory if someone were to roll the piano and it stopped abruptly, such as bumping the piano into a wall, some water MAY spill out onto the floor and possibly onto the piano. If such operator negligence occurs and the piano is damaged by water this is not covered by piano's warranty.
- The initial cost of the unit and installation.
- You must arrange for a housesitter to check on the system for you if you are going to be gone longer than a week or so, or unplug the unit.
- Finding an installer (Note: dammpchasers website has a list)
- Having a cord hanging out of your grand piano
- Holes must be drilled into the piano for installation

Don't have one. Considering it.

Cons?
- Cost
- Finding an installer
- Having a cord hanging out of your grand piano
- Holes drilled in the piano for installation? Owners could answer this.

The cost of the Dammpchaser is around 500.00? and does the installer also charge a fee (I'm sure he does- but do you know what it might average?)

PRO

- Peace of mind when humidity fluctuates inside house.
- Greater marital happiness because you don't have to fight with your spouse over keeping the windows shut "so it won't hurt the piano."
- Will add to marketability of your piano should you decide to sell.

CONS

- The initial cost of the unit and installation.
- You must arrange for a housesitter to check on the system for you if you are going to be gone longer than a week or so, or unplug the unit.

CON: A few techs and rebuilders I respect don't like them. I think they believe they focus their heat/moisture in too small an area or something.

I have a D-C unit, and I think it's doing the piano good, but the reservations of people I respect make me a little nervous.

These are uncommon in Europe.

As a matter of interest, do piano manufacturers (especially in America) recommend them? Do any offer them as an optional extra?

I would have thought that if pianos are so susceptible to damage from humidity variance that such a device is necessary, then piano manufacturers would either add them (to reduce warranty claims from split wood and broken joints), or at the very list recommend them.

Yes, I have also wondered why the piano manufacturers don't specifically recommend DC systems or offer them as factory installed options. They don't discourage them either; they just seem to be silent on the issue. I don't think there's any doubt about the ravages of wide humidity fluctuation over time on pianos, fine furniture, wood trim and hardwood floors. This is reality. Advice from piano makers is simply to maintain RH in your home in the 40% to 45% range. This would be ideal but simply isn't possible (or at least practical) in many locations, hence the need for the DC system.

It is an interesting question.

Apparently manufacturers are not silent on the issue.

The following is quoted from Dammpchaser's website:

http://www.pianolifesaver.com/english/recommendations.php

Major Piano Manufacturers Recommendations

Steinway & Sons "The installation of a Dampp-Chaser Humidity Control System can, in our opinion, provide a degree of climate control for the piano which may not otherwise be attainable."

Bösendorfer "The usage of Dampp-Chaser humidity control systems effectively compensates climatic changes within the piano's environment and is for that reason beneficial in terms of stability and long term reliability."

"...Yamaha fully endorses the use of the system with Yamaha pianos in areas that are subject to extremes in humidity. Without such a system, it is very difficult to control the humidity around the piano."

Kawai "Your Dampp-Chaser humidity control systems are the best and most carefully designed systems we have seen."

Seiler "The Dampp-Chaser Climate Control System helps retain both the regulation and pitch of top quality instruments, thus stabilizing the tonal character inherent in a particular make or instrument as well as its long-term value." - Ursula Seiler

Baldwin "Baldwin recommends the Dampp-Chaser system as a valuable means to help insure the longevity and stability of our pianos."

Schimmel"The best way to preserve the value of fine grands and uprights is to automatically regulate the humidity right within the instrument .. with a System from Dampp-Chaser Corporation." - Nikolaus Schimmel

"Pearl River Piano Group USA believes that a properly installed and maintained Dampp-Chaser system can enhance the performance and longevity of our pianos."

END of snip

I suspect liability is one reason makers don't more publicly recommend them.
What if the owner spills water into the piano and tries to sue, saying, "Well, you recommended Dammpchasers. . . " or damage resulting from the tech installing it incorrectly?
Sure, they may not win in court but who needs the hassle?

Also M&H told me VERY clearly that any damage caused by water is NOT covered by warranty.

I use a whole room humidifier and an air conditioner in summer to keep humidity in the 50% range year round. My tech is very much against the DC system saying they cause cracks in the sound board. I have no opinion on them myself since I never owned one but hearing this from someone who has seen a huge number of pianos I would not risk it instead I use something that I know will work and I know will not cause damage.

LJC

The next time you see your tech, could you gather some more info to share?

How many has he seen cause a crack? And why would that be?

And were there other events or circumstances that could have cause the crack (before one was installed, etc)

Since we hear so many good things about them, and have invested so much in our piano purchases and many have installed the Piano Life Saver expecting it to do all kinds of wonderful things, to hear another side of the story would informative.

Thanks.

And Oh, btw, the Rach Elegie has stole my heart!

Ah yes.
Here we go again.

In the old days dammpchasers did not have the protection circuitry that they have today.
Yes, soundboards were cooked.
But no more.

Now if you forget to fill the water tank the system shuts all the heaters off to protect the soundboard.

Tell your tech to keep up.

Interesting Kenny.

I wonder if piano manufacturers can do anything to reduce the risk of damage to their pianos without having a DC. I am not talking about the silly "seasoned for destination" stuff that afflicted this forum for a while, but other measures such as using more modern glues, more stable jointing methods, timbers that are less prone to splitting, or whatever. Really piano technology should get a grip of this?

LJC, what kind of humidifier do you have? I would be interested to know the brand and model, if possible.

I have had the worst experience with humidifiers. I went through a couple of Ventas this season. Apparently it was a new model and there were still some kinks to iron out. The Air-O-Swiss ultrasonic humidifier I used next worked reasonably well for a couple of months, and then simply died. Curiously, the replacement units (yes, more than one) didn't even turn on - and this was straight out of the boxes from a reputable seller.

I think the one I bought in 2000 was about $500 installed for a 7 ft grand, two rods, one water tank, the humidistat, and no undercover

Then in 2006 for a 9'2" grand it was $800 or $900 IIRC, 3 rods, two water tanks, the humidistat and an undercover.

These priced include installation and was in Los Angeles County, California, a relatively expensive location for technician fees.

NOTE: I am adding everyone's PROS and CONS (thank you) to my list above for the benefit of future people who find this thread when doing a search.

Both times the quote I got was for the DC and the labor together.

DC does not sell to the public so I have no way of knowing how the price I paid was broken down in the cost of Parts, labor, the tech's mark up on the parts.

I recently received a quote of USD 700 all-in for a D-C (with installation) for a Steinway grand (Model A).

FWIW - The cleaning task can be greatly reduced by the use of distilled water. Since DC uses electrodes to heat water to produce the humidification, it's necessary to use a dose of the conditioner (which contains electrolytes) or a pinch of salt initially, then almost never. (Mine is still happily humming after a year, and stays clean.) The salts don't boil off.

Living in Colorado this process is partcularly important: we'd be cleaning the thing at least monthly given the huge amount of minerals in our water.

LL- Yes I'll ask him about it next time and post. I agree the Elegie is a keeper! Kenny, OK That most certainly is a big improvement but I still have concerns about uneven humidification. (perhaps unfounded) AJB-its my understanding that extreme humidity does the most damage. As the humidity increases everything expands and then the wood fibers start compressing and if they compress too much they get crushed. Then when the heat comes on and the wood dries out it shrinks and that pulls the fibers apart. There is almost nothing a manufacturer can do but advise the owners to keep humidity under control. I do believe there is some extra space given here and there to allow for expansion. Maybe Del could chime in on this. This also explains why a piano sounds different at different humidity levels. The crown increases and decreases with humidity. ..NYC- I have a Sears humidifier,the biggest one they make. It costs about $150.00. Its 3 years old and runs 24/7 in winter. Its rated for 3000 sq ft but there is no way it can keep 50% humidity in more than a 25 X 20 room in the dead of winter. It has 2 big water tanks and needs filling everyday in winter. ...It seems to me a DP should be easy to install it just hangs underneath.

CONs:

I would phrase these as "unknowns" more than CONs.
1. There is no data that shows the Dampp Chaser system improves the life of wood piano components. There is only intuition, hope, and anecdote.

2. If stable environmental humidity prolongs the life of wood piano components, there is no data thst shows that maintaining the hymidity inside the piano cavity is as efficacious as maintaining a stable room humidity.

I have to disagree with calling some of these "cons." How is putting water into a humidifer a "con"? You said in the "pro" column it only takes a minute or so once every couple of weeks, which is true.

It's hard to add too much water when you receive a special watering can with your system with a fat red line marked on it, which is exactly how much water you should add. You do not need to measure or even know exactly what volume of water to add.

You can get replacement pads and additive from your tech who installed the system. Most techs will change the pads for you during a regular tuning appointment.

As for spilling water into the piano, it seems unlikely, and spilled water is only an issue in an upright. (If you spill water from the tank under your grand onto the floor, it's not going to hurt the piano.) The installation instructions recommend that the tech make sure the fill tube is securely fastened inside the tank (which is how it comes from the factory). The other end of the fill tube fits securely over the mouth of the watering can.

It is not usually necessary to drill holes in your piano to install the system. All the parts are secured to the beams under the (grand) piano with wood screws or with push pins in an upright (yes, push pins!). I understand that the systems designed for Steinway uprights may require holes to be drilled in the back of the piano, and some uprights with very tight-fitting kneeboards may not have room for the power cord to exit except through a hole drilled in the bottom board (under the bottom of an upright).

Really, your lists make it appear that there are just as many cons to having a system in your piano as pros. I think this is misleading.