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#81311 - 08/20/07 04:45 PM New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
Dear pianists, piano lovers, music friends, and piano technicians,

Here’s some news on the development of a new concert grand piano, on which I would highly appreciate to receive your feedback.

Having teamed up with a Connecticut, USA, based company, we intend to begin constructing the prototypes of our concert grand piano Model 408 – 408 cm / 13.4 ft in length, with a soundboard twice as large, compared to a traditional, 275 cm / 9 ft concert grand. We expect to introduce this instrument to the public during the year 2009.

It would be most interesting to receive your opinion on some aspects of this project. Basic information, pictures and sound samples (recorded on the prototype, the Klavins Piano Model 370) you can find on my homepage, www.klavins-pianos.com . The sound of the Model 408 will be improved by several means, compared to the Model 370, though the 370-sound-samples provide a basic impression of the sound character as such, the enhanced dynamics, and the clarity of the bass register of this type of piano design.

The “Model 408” button leads you to the description and pictures of the 3D CAD model, the “Model 370” and the “CDs” button to the sound samples.

Your feedback would be appreciated mainly on the following subjects:

1. Do you think it makes sense to create, and invent innovative pianos at all, like the Model 408, or would you stick to the traditional concert grand piano anyway? (Reasoning)

2. Which color would you prefer for the Model 408?

3. What is your opinion on the sound characteristics of the Model 370?

If you have any technical or other questions, or suggestions related to this project, I will be happy to discuss them here.

Thank you!!

David Klavins
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81312 - 08/20/07 05:03 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 15850
Loc: Oakland
I think spending a lot of energy on designing concert grands is a waste of time and effort. There is too little demand for them to get much market penetration.

If you want to impress me, build a better small grand or upright, especially if you can do it at a price that would be competitive. The Chinese manufacturers are more inspiring than all the ho-hum one-off concert grand builders.
_________________________
Semipro Tech

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#81313 - 08/20/07 05:43 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
bigger=better? move to america ;\)
but seriously-we have no need for pianos of this size-UNLESS peforming spaces get SIGNIFICANTLY bigger. Right now a Steinway D is the perfect amount of piano for the world's greatest halls.
and plus-this 408 will cost (I'm guessing) close to a million dollars...

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#81314 - 08/20/07 05:46 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
Also... those pianos REALLY LOOK LIKE A SAILBOAT!
The ONLY use I could see these pianos having is for Jazz pianists who need to be heard above 50 brass instruments...
good luck though...

p.s. how much do they cost?

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#81315 - 08/20/07 05:54 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Beacon Chris Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/06/06
Posts: 433
Loc: Beacon, New York
David,

I LOVE the way it looks! Why not build a new concert grand? In the world of shrinking demand it is great to see someone running contrary to conventional wisdom. I do agree with BDB as well that it is also exciting to see reasonably priced high-quality consumer pianos enter the market, but why not go for it.

I do think that selling these will be problematic. What are your thoughts and reasonings in producing such a huge piano? Tell us more about it!

Best, BC
_________________________
Musician and Piano Store Owner with a wife, THREE kids, and a Saturn in the driveway.

No, they are not all in the driveway, just the car!

Arrgg! I don't own a musician either!!!

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#81316 - 08/20/07 06:02 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Gene Nelson Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 1153
Loc: Old Hangtown California
Have you checked out David Rubenstein's 12'2" piano? http://www.rubensteinpianos.com/
I believe it has been finished and for sale for about 2 years.
The piano looks and sounds fabulous.
Can you talk a bit about the high end aspects of your piano?
_________________________
RPT
PTG Member

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#81317 - 08/20/07 06:10 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Mark... Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 3678
They do have some interesting lines. Am I correct in that the sound board runs outside the case? Some close up pictures would be nice too...

If you went with a black lid it might reduce the sailboat comments and give it a more modern classic look. It nice seeing someone thinking "outside the box"

Congrats on your pianos...
_________________________


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#81318 - 08/20/07 06:12 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
To BDB:
As a matter of fact, we do have a definite project for a highly competitive small size piano as well, though we cannot proceed with all subjects at a time, so it will take a few years from here to introduce it.

To Mr_Kitty:
All typical stages of large concert hall can easily host the size of the 408. Most pianists whom I have interviewed personally have expressed a remarkable interest to see the 408 introduced. However, whether it finally can be established within the concert world, and whether there is a sufficient demand for this instrument, remains to be seen. I think it's a remarkable difference between discussing something in theory, and what happens in face of the "real thing". \:\) Let's see, we are set to make it happen, it's the only way to find out.
The price may be around 350K dollars, it will be finally determined after the prototypes are finished.
Thanks for the good wishes... ;\)
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81319 - 08/20/07 06:20 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
pianist.ame Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/07
Posts: 1132
Loc: Singapore
I prefer the old classic grand piano
_________________________
working on a few pieces by Beethoven, Brahms & Schubert!! best combination of composers for building my technique& musicality...it has been so effective

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#81320 - 08/20/07 06:24 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Mr_Kitty Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 667
Loc: Toronto
audiences already accuse pianists of pounding... imagine Clang Clang on a piano with twice the square footage of soundboard...lol no thanks!

350.... let's see.... for that we could probably get 2 Faz. 308's.... almost 2 Bosie Imperials.... or 3 absolutely perfect Steinway D's.

I know you're not at all interested in competitive pricing, but still.

Pearl River made a 12 foot grand once.....it sucked. Bosendorfer made a 12 foot grand once..... it also sucked-bass was WAY too powerful compared to treble (ALREADY a problem on standard Bosie's)
Size isn't everything. I'm sure there's alot more to your piano than mere size.
Pianists can already crush an orchestra on a powerful 9 foot . There is no need for bigger instruments, unless halls get bigger. WAY bigger.
This reminds me of those Italians building Project 1221.... a car powered by twin 750 HP turbine engines....
The Bugatti Veyron with "only" 1000 HP can already do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds. There is no need for a more powerful car.

lol I would have alot of fun playing this 408 though, dispite my rantings ;\)
good luck building a piano with greater complexity of sound than a Steinway. If I ever have 350k sitting around and I already have a Hamburg, a New York, AND a Faz 308, I'll give you a call \:D

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#81321 - 08/20/07 06:28 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4673
Loc: San Francisco
First, congratulations on having the courage to go forward with the production of such a daring, innovative design.

Please excuse an editorial comment re para. 3 in your post. "Superficial" is not a good choice here. In its qualitative sense, it means "lacking depth." I'm confident that this is not the meaning which the text is intended to convey. Perhaps something like, "Having teamed up... company, we will begin constructing our Model 408 concert grand piano, which will be presented to the public in calendar year 2009. The innovative shape of the Model 408 - 408cm, 13.4ft in length - is only one of its exclusive features. The Model 408's soundboard will be twice as large as those found in the usual 275cm/9'ft concert grands and its string scale helps to give it a unique voice."

Something like that.

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#81322 - 08/20/07 06:38 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
VGrantano Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 732
Loc: New Jersey
Methinks someones tongue is firmly planted in their cheek! I saw this piano on a web site years ago, from a shop in Germany.NOW it shows up here?

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#81323 - 08/20/07 07:16 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
Beacon Chris,
Thanks for your kind words! \:\)
My main motivation, why to develop this size of a concert grand, is based on three major factors, or experiences during my professional career:

1. I generally disagree with what I was told during my piano builder's education - that the established concert grands are "perfect", the piano development as such is finished, there's no room for any innovation. I'm an analyst and researcher by nature, and found out very early, working as piano technician and tuner, that those statements are far from being true.

2. During the course of doing concert tunings and mechanical adjustments for high-profile pianists, I found out that many of the artist's requests could simply not be satisfied because of defective piano construction and design. Especially, their complaints about sound characteristics, which could not be satisfied by voicing or any other, typical piano technicians' work; for instance, the heavily dissonant partial tone load of every traditional bass register, or differences in tone character, volume and partial tone structure at the treble register.

3. At one important point in my life (about 25 years ago) I met an American gentleman, who listened to my project of manufacuring high quality, but cheap pianos (such a product line I was planning to set up in Germany at that time). After I had explained my considerations to him, he said: Wrong, absolutely wrong, my friend! The Chinese will always be cheaper, they'll take your ideas and knock you out by their financial power. So, here's my advice: if you want to succeed in life, and you've got the ideas, create the VERY BEST of something, no matter what it costs - you'll have YOUR position, YOUR product, no competition!

Shortly after this conversation I began planning the Model 370... ;\)

Gene Nelson,

Yes, I am familiar with David Rubenstein's concert grand, and I highly respect him for his achievment! However, I think it is wrong to stick to the traditional grand piano shape, if you want to improve the sound remarkably, since that shape implies a way too NARROW sound board. My main critic of the traditioal concert grand is the inadequate sound board shape, and size, way too stiff for middle- and bass frequencies to produce a strong AND beautiful sound.

As you can see on the pictures, the soundboard of the 408 is rather recangle shaped, the width in the middle and bass bridge range is more than twice of that of the "narrow-tailed" traditional grand piano's soundboard. This allows the board to vibrate at higher amplitudes, which is vital for the bass and middle register frequencies, in particular.

To balance the treble part, with the enhanced bass and middle register, I have developed some special constructional details, which enhance the treble part sound naturally, without generating too much of dissonant partial tones. You can't avoid them absolutely, if a maximum loudness is requested, but by paying attention to a maximum, 100% precise design of all string- and bridge-related details, the dissonant partial tones can be kept to a minor level.

In addition to the completely re-designed soundboard shape and dimensions, I have developed a keyboard and action system, that contains none of th organic materials anymore, except the hammer head felt - for sound, in particular, voicing reasons.


Hi Mark,

You're right - there is no case around the soundboard, though the soundboard will be completely embedded in the (very solid) rim. Close-ups of this part would make no sense with the 3D CAD model, since it does not show many costructional and design details as such, it was produced to show the basic idea, the looks and principles implemented with this design.
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81324 - 08/20/07 07:23 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
FogVilleLad:

Thanks for your comment, my English needs a lot of improvement!! \:D I'm always grateful for every advice! Have to figure out how I can edit the post, since I'm "brand-new" here, let's see...
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81325 - 08/20/07 07:35 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
Mr_Kitty,

Sound potential not necessarily means that the pianist has to "bang", rather opposite: it allows him to create more dynamical differenciation, which generally is an advantage, I think. The "bangers" among pianists make any piano sound bad, the same goes for our's, in particular. The huge size of the soundboard is primarely important for the quality, the beauty of the tone, not for sheer loudness.

As I have mentioned before, the treble register at the 408 will be significantly enhanced as well, no only the low registers.
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81326 - 08/20/07 07:36 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 15279
Loc: Victoria, BC
Do I understand you to imply that the model 370 is only a prototype and would not be a model that you would be marketing? As I understand the photographs of the model 370, this would have to be a permanent installation, and I'm wondering which concert halls would want a permanently installed piano. Before I belabour the points of the impracticality of this design, please confirm that the 370 is not a model that you would be marketing.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190 in satin ebony

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#81327 - 08/20/07 07:38 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Steve Jackson Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Canada
 Quote:
Originally posted by David Klavins:
Beacon Chris,
Thanks for your kind words! \:\)
My main motivation, why to develop this size of a concert grand, is based on three major factors, or experiences during my professional career:

1. I generally disagree with what I was told during my piano builder's education - that the established concert grands are "perfect", the piano development as such is finished, there's no room for any innovation. I'm an analyst and researcher by nature, and found out very early, working as piano technician and tuner, that those statements are far from being true.

2. During the course of doing concert tunings and mechanical adjustments for high-profile pianists, I found out that many of the artist's requests could simply not be satisfied because of defective piano construction and design. Especially, their complaints about sound characteristics, which could not be satisfied by voicing or any other, typical piano technicians' work; for instance, the heavily dissonant partial tone load of every traditional bass register, or differences in tone character, volume and partial tone structure at the treble register.

3. At one important point in my life (about 25 years ago) I met an American gentleman, who listened to my project of manufacuring high quality, but cheap pianos (such a product line I was planning to set up in Germany at that time). After I had explained my considerations to him, he said: Wrong, absolutely wrong, my friend! The Chinese will always be cheaper, they'll take your ideas and knock you out by their financial power. So, here's my advice: if you want to succeed in life, and you've got the ideas, create the VERY BEST of something, no matter what it costs - you'll have YOUR position, YOUR product, no competition!

Shortly after this conversation I began planning the Model 370... ;\)

Gene Nelson,

Yes, I am familiar with David Rubenstein's concert grand, and I highly respect him for his achievment! However, I think it is wrong to stick to the traditional grand piano shape, if you want to improve the sound remarkably, since that shape implies a way too NARROW sound board. My main critic of the traditioal concert grand is the inadequate sound board shape, and size, way too stiff for middle- and bass frequencies to produce a strong AND beautiful sound.

As you can see on the pictures, the soundboard of the 408 is rather recangle shaped, the width in the middle and bass bridge range is more than twice of that of the "narrow-tailed" traditional grand piano's soundboard. This allows the board to vibrate at higher amplitudes, which is vital for the bass and middle register frequencies, in particular.

To balance the treble part, with the enhanced bass and middle register, I have developed some special constructional details, which enhance the treble part sound naturally, without generating too much of dissonant partial tones. You can't avoid them absolutely, if a maximum loudness is requested, but by paying attention to a maximum, 100% precise design of all string- and bridge-related details, the dissonant partial tones can be kept to a minor level.

In addition to the completely re-designed soundboard shape and dimensions, I have developed a keyboard and action system, that contains none of th organic materials anymore, except the hammer head felt - for sound, in particular, voicing reasons.


Hi Mark,

You're right - there is no case around the soundboard, though the soundboard will be completely embedded in the (very solid) rim. Close-ups of this part would make no sense with the 3D CAD model, since it does not show many costructional and design details as such, it was produced to show the basic idea, the looks and principles implemented with this design. [/b]
Wow!

The so much negativity towards innovation is astounding! I doubt these are concert pianists or piano builders.

I wish you the best of success on your endeavors.
_________________________
Vintage Piano sales and restoration in Toronto
Exclusive Live Performance Player Systems Dealer

http://stevejacksonpianos.com

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#81328 - 08/20/07 07:44 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Sir Lurksalot Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 1162
Vince/Bruce,

Based on what I've read here in the past and elsewhere recently, I'm pretty sure the model 370 was built in 1987/88 primarily as an "exhibition" piece. Several CD's are available featuring that instrument.

Mr. Klavins' post today seems to be regarding the new design for the 408.

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#81329 - 08/20/07 07:48 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Klick Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 5
Loc: San Antonio, TX
David -

Wow. After reading this thread, I can see the resistance you’ll have with marketing. It’s the impurities of existing piano design that much of the great music was written on/for. This is what will lead you to more marketing issues.

I’m of the opinion that there is room for improvement of piano tone. A better tone may make Chopin or Debussy sound too different for some. This may also inspire composers to a new era of writing.

I agree with the advice you were given – follow your passion and make it the best.

congratulations and best of luck!

k

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#81330 - 08/20/07 07:49 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Derick II Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/05
Posts: 1426
Loc: New York
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:


Bosendorfer made a 12 foot grand once..... it also sucked-bass was WAY too powerful compared to treble [/b]
Mr_Kitty,

Hard to take anyone seriously with such a name. Nevertheless, where did you get the information that Bosendorfer made a 12' grand once? I never have heard of this. Please do tell and show some evidence.

Derick
_________________________
"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."[/b] - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)


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#81331 - 08/20/07 07:51 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
BruceD:

We do not intend to market the Model 370 as you see it on the pictures, but we plan to build (within the next 6 months) an "integrated" version, which will be "built-in" a suitable wall (front and back side open). While I do not expect this version to be the "runner", I can imagine some locations, including large scale private homes, where this principle makes sense. By this means, it can be compared to the principle of the pipe organ, which as well is immovable, installed at a certain location.
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81332 - 08/20/07 07:55 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
ejsauter Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 564
Loc: Michigan
I think it is a great idea. Perhaps, a larger piano might lead to LESS pounding as was previously mentioned.

As for color, I would vote for Carbon Black Metallic (like a M5) which looks almost blue in some light.

Good luck.
_________________________
"The creative mind plays with the object it loves." -- Carl Jung

http://www.sauter-pianos.com

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#81333 - 08/20/07 08:05 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Numerian Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 844
The nautical design is spectacular and reminds me of the Liminal piano. The sailboat lid is an especially striking feature.

I did not notice any strings on the photographs of your pianos so I assume these are prototypes. Also, is there a sampling of the CDs to judge the sound? I didn't see it immediately.

I think the key element of success in your piano is designing it for effective home use. Of course we are talking about a very big home with a wealthy owner to afford the $340,000 price, but I assume the piano cannot be successful if it is only playable in concert halls of a certain size. In the home, it must offer clearly distinguishable tonal advantages and, for the pianist, an exquisite action, and the sound must not be louder than a typical Steinway D.

I do believe Stuart & Sons is able to compete in this area of very expensive pianos for home use, and possibly Fazioli. Whilst some buyers will pay for prestige, furniture design, etc. ultimately to succeed the instrument must be superior to existing concert grands musically, yet not be overpowering.

Am I right in this? What are your goals for tonal quality, and do high net worth individuals figure in your sales approach, or are you only expecting to sell to concert halls?

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#81334 - 08/20/07 08:09 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
SirLurksalot: You are absolutely right, this post is regarding the Model 408. The Model 370, which in fact will have it's 20-year anniversary this November, \:\) I built as the basic experiment, to find out if it makes sense at all to work in this direction, and how to solve the related constructional problems.

Klick:

Thank you for the encouragement! \:\) You are right, surely there will be resistance, as well as hesitation to like this kind of "new" sound, but as it seems to me, after having received quite many comments from Model-370-listeners, it is just a matter of time, of getting used to it. Some people have even stated, that they can't enjoy the traditional concert grand's sound any more, after hearing the Mod.370... ;\) myself, I do not think that all of the nice Steinways, Boesendorfers and Fazioli pianos are "crap" or bad or whatever - they can sound beautiful, perfectly tuned, voiced, and played by sophisticated pianists; I have enjoyed them a lot. I just say - there's more than that, and I am set to discover, and offer to the pianists this additional potential.
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81335 - 08/20/07 08:16 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
ChickGrand Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/02/03
Posts: 3202
Loc: Midwest U.S.
 Quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Kitty:
...Bosendorfer made a 12 foot grand once..... it also sucked-bass was WAY too powerful compared to treble (ALREADY a problem on standard Bosie's)...[/b]
Seconding Derick's query.

I also am not aware of any 12-footer built by Bosie. The only other maker besides Pearl (whose piano was slightly short of 12 feet) and Rubinstein that I know of was Challen, the English maker, who built, if I recall correctly, only one example.

Secondly, regarding the statement that "...bass was WAY too powerful compared to treble (ALREADY a problem on standard Bosie's)...", I've seen no discussion here (or in any of the other piano forums) that supports that view. Could you perhaps provide links to any discussion of that point? (My own view is that Bosies have among the most powerful treble ranges in the business and the notion that it might be overpowered by the bass seems entirely unlikely to rise to a level of "problem" to me.)

Regarding the proposed 12-foot Klavin--I'm interested in seeing what *any* designer produces. But I'd be a lot more interested in that particular design if it had cabins for 6, a lifeboat, and auxillary engines. :p Seriously, "art for art's sake" can border on self-important and pretentious. Not saying it should look conventional, but the design is so far over the top as to be off-putting. However unconventional, that two-story vertical isn't nearly so off-putting, simply because its design serves a purpose. I can't see where any aspect of the design element in the 12-footer serves anything but some designer's idea of "art". I'd say, "Try again". But then, I'm not a fan of "modern art".

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#81336 - 08/20/07 08:55 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
ejsauter:
Thank you! I appreciate your input! \:\)

Numerian:
I agree with your opinion, the primary task is to improve the tonal, the musical QUALITY of the piano. More power comes with it naturally, given our design principles, but it must not be necessarily utilzed, where not appropriate.

Regarding tonal quality, I consider the following factors as being of highest importance:

1. A pure, clear tonal character, optimally balanced throughout all registers, eliminating disturbing partial tones;

2. A "warm", saturated sound at all dynamic levels and tonal regsiters;

3. An optimal sustain of tone, showing a decay curve that decreases as linear as possible, contrary to a sharp decrease after the attack phase;

4. Last but not least, an improved, perfectly balanced and easy to control action, including the high quality, adequate hammer head (felt), which serves to generate the desired tone, to unleash the tonal potential of the piano.

Regarding your final question: Yes, high networth individuals are rather high ranked in our marketing considerations, I (we) agree with your opinion on this subject.


ChickGrand:
Thanks for your comments! I understand your point clearly, but regarding the design I have to correct you a bit - most of the design elements, in particular the possibly most "spectacular", the lid, serve primarely the function, not the optical appearance. The lid, for instance, is designed this way based on research and calculations for an optimal, wide-spread refelection of the sound.

I'm not a fan of modern art either, but I love the look of this piano - it's an exception... \:D
_________________________
David Klavins
Master piano builder, technician, tuner

www.klavins-pianos.com

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#81337 - 08/20/07 08:58 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Tuan Vo Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 354
Loc: Los Angeles
 Quote:
1. Do you think it makes sense to create, and invent innovative pianos at all, like the Model 408, or would you stick to the traditional concert grand piano anyway? (Reasoning)
The Model 408 looks interesting. My first impression of it was that it looks more like a piece of art that you leave in a display room for showcasing rather than an instrument for serious playing.

Although I believe innovation is important, I can't picture your instrument in a concert hall with man in a nice suit/tuxedo playing it. I think your instrument looks modern and chic instead of traditional and elegant.

I'm not sure whether you are designing pianos for home or concert halls, but being a 13 foot grand, I'll just have to assume you are aiming for concert halls.

 Quote:
2. Which color would you prefer for the Model 408?
Not sure. Looking at the pictures on the site, I can't really determine what colors would go well with it since it's such an abstract-looking instrument.

 Quote:
3. What is your opinion on the sound characteristics of the Model 370?
I never heard the sound of the Model 370. Anyone have sound samples?
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#81338 - 08/20/07 09:10 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
David Klavins Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 16
Loc: USA
Tuan Vo:

Thanks for your input!

As for the sound samples, there are some 2-minute, free streaming samples if you klick the note symbol next to the titles I offer on the "CDs" page. And on the "Model 370" page, at the bottom, there is a 5-minute sample of the Bach/Busoni "Chaconne", for downlaod or streaming.
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#81339 - 08/20/07 09:18 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
jazzwee Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 5970
Loc: So. California
I think there would be a market for this. I can imagine some estate in Beverly Hills bringing in musicians to play on their showcase piano. They would do this on their Steinways and it wouldn't be a hard stretch to imagine them going for something even more elaborate (and looking like a modern art musuem piece).

The only problem is that these types of high networth individuals (Hollywood types), is that they wouldn't be able to appreciate the musical characteristics of a special piano, which poses a little of a marketing challenge.

These are the types of buyers that just buy Steinway for the name. They don't play anyway. But put a Steinway label on this piano and they jump for it. The more exotic the better.

The real musicians would really appreciate a piano like this, but of course they can't afford it.
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#81340 - 08/20/07 09:39 PM Re: New Design of a High-End Concert Grand Piano - Your opinion?
Zormpas Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 587
Loc: Monterey, Ca
While you're at innovating, how about doing away with the 12th century technology of tuning pins in wood that wears out? An update to the screw stringer idea or an entirely new design. From an engineering standpoint, the currently used design is simply insane...
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